Legion idea that could work
Hi, I had nothing to do so i tried to make my own rework for legion but without values because they are too hard to balance without testing. I need constructive criticism pls. This is just a general idea of what i think that they should be.
I'll give numbers as examples bellow the power description, but PLEASE don't take those numbers more seriously than the idea itself because of the reasons that i explained above. Thank you! :)
4.4 m/s killer
24 meters terror radius
This is the description of their power.
Power: Feral Frenzy
The Legion has a Frenzy power gauge that builds up over time. The power, Feral Frenzy, can be activated by tapping the Power button. While active, the power gauge drains rapidly and the power ends when the gauge is empty, triggering an extended recovery cool-down.
When activating Feral Frenzy, The Legion enters a deadly rage. While the power is active:
- The Legion sprints faster than base movement speed.
- The Legion can vault windows faster.
- Survivors' Scratch Marks are hidden from The Legion's view.
- Missed attacks have a reduced cooldown and drop a portion of Feral Frenzy's power gauge.
While Feral Frenzy is active, hitting a Survivor who is not currently afflicted with the Deep Wound Status Effect:
- Applies the Deep Wound Status Effect.
- Injures the Survivor, if they are not already injured.
- Reduces the survivor's starting deep wound timer, if they are already injured or exposed.
- Refills The Legion's entire power gauge.
- Triggers "Killer Instinct", revealing the location of all Survivors who do not have the Deep Wound Status Effect applied and are within The Legion's Terror Radius.
- Legion can also vault pallets but cannot break them.
- Reduces the time of the extended recovery cooldown, for each survivor hit.
- The power gauge drains at less speed.(does not stack).
- Increases the sprint's movement speed.(does not stack).
While Feral Frenzy is active, hitting a Survivor who is currently afflicted with the Deep Wound Status Effect:
- Depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.
- Reduces a portion of the survivor's deep wound timer.
NOTE:
- Hitting a Survivor with a basic attack while Feral Frenzy is not active will deplete the power gauge.
- The power can be used when half of the bar is full.
- Exposed and injured survivors'effects do not stack.
For deep wounds:
- The killer can see the progress of the bar.
- The deep wound timer does not reduce within a fixed 20 meter radius from the killer and while mending.
- Mending action takes 12 seconds to perform.
- Survivors cannot perform actions that are not pallet and window related while in deep wounds.
These changes make it so that survivors don't take that much time mending in exchange for the other mechanics added before. Also, the killer knowing the progress of the bar doesn't give that much information because the survivor can be just mending anywhere and the bar stops because of it.
EXAMPLE Numbers
The power has a 15 second cooldown
Before hitting a survivor without deep wounds numbers (balanced for chase):
Feral Frenzy's Speed: 5.2 m/s
Duration: 7 seconds
Base fatigue: 3 seconds
Window vaulting duration: 0.9 seconds. *Vaulting doesn't stop the draining of the bar.
Breaking pallets is the same speed as normal. (stops the bar from draining).
Reduced power gauge for each missing hit: 50%
After hitting a survivor without deep wounds numbers (balanced to chain hits):
Feral Frenzy's speed: increased to 5.6 m/s
Duration: increased to 14 seconds
Reduced fatigue for each survivor hit: 0.5 seconds
Window and Pallet vault duration: 0.9 seconds. *Vaulting doesn't stop the draining of the bar.
Reduced power gauge for each missing hit: 50%
If the survivor hit was healthy: The deep wound timer starts at 30 seconds (full bar).
If the survivor hit was injured or exposed: The deep wound timer starts at 20 seconds.
Hitting a survivor with deep wounds while in Feral Frenzy reduces 10 seconds of the sruvivor's deep wound timer (33% of the bar).
Share your thoughts.
Comments
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yea i get where your going with this but he was actually worse to play as a 4.4m/s killer during his release than he is now because while his power gets him free hits it does not help down survivors so decreasing him to base movement speed will ultimately make him worse. The devs actually did good with his rework imo its just that legions design sucks since the mending timer is so easy to exploit and being injured is not threatening when the killer cant benefit from it and is basically a m1 killer.
if you want to make a legion suggestion its not his power that needs to be looked at but the deep wounds timer, addons, ect.
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"his power gets him free hits it does not help down survivors so decreasing him to base movement speed will ultimately make him worse."
The power can reduce the deep wound timer of the survivor, you have a reduced fatigue for each survivor hit so it gives a bigger reward for doing your job as a killer that is supposed to spread hits. Also, you even have 2 ways of downing someone with this: by reducing the mend timer to 0 or hit multiple survivors and then face VERY short fatigue and down them with the basic attack.
I will disagree with you when you say the rework they did was something related to good. No fun for both sides and still a very ######### straightforward killer. The power hurts him more than helps, even if you don't do any mistakes using it.
He is a 4.4 with this change that i propose, yes, but also you have a reduced fatigue that REALLY makes up for it and even compensates. You did your thing, now get rewarded for it.
I agree that their add-ons suck and deep wounds, thats why i proposed a change to deep wounds and add-ons should be reworked according to these changes. I don't like numbers without testing tho.
Thx for the feedback. :)
EDIT: Forgot to mention that it is very easier to chain hits with these changes by making them faster, vault pallets and the power lasting longer when hitting someone without deep wounds.
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Numbers are missing, I dont know how fast the legion sprints in FF, how fast they vault pallets or windows and most likely, how long the stun gets for each hitting survivor etc.
I like your though about bringing back old Legion, I have the same thoughts. But if you didnt know, the old Legion was weak, but fun. So with your idea the Legion is even weaker because you get stunned even longer as a slow movemntspeed killer. You should get abit more benefits after hitting a survivor, faster ferzy speed is not enough. But still cool ideas, I like that.
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My idea is clear, why is everyone reading it wrong?
"Reduces the time of the extended recovery cooldown, for each survivor hit." - what i've written.
This isn't increasing, this is decreasing.
"faster ferzy speed is not enough." - what you said.
"The power gauge drains at less speed." - this is what i said as another buff to chain hits.
Now that i've explained it better, what do you think?
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ok i didn't catch that part about the reduced fatigue thats a good idea however i think the majority of the community will hate it if legion can just keep hitting you with his power until you get downed because that was extremely annoying and took no skill to do. I still dont think that he should ever go back to 4.4m/s tho since getting 3-4 survivors with frenzy requires some luck which would make the speed nerf meaningless they could also just go to a pallet and loop it like normal if they are injured already and know that you are going after them.
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Old legion took no skill because they had their power when it was 25% filled up, could vault pallets normally and had no penalties. Now you have for missing hits and have to wait a bigger time to do so.
Also, injured or exposed survivors start with a reduced bar which means less hits to take you down. If legion is after you, run to pallets they are safe until legion destroys it, not the same to windows but the killer needs to kill.
Its very easy to chain hits with the changes that i propose. They get faster when killer instinct activates and the power last longer. Being able to vault windows and pallets on top of that seems really good to me but you dont need and are NOT intended to hit all 4 with the same power, that would be just annoying. You can benefit from a hit or two and it already helps in a chase.
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No I meaned, how fast exactly does Legion run, 5,0 M/s in Feral Frenzy or more? How fast does Legion vault etc I want to know the numbers because this is one of the reasons why Legion is so bad atm, the vault speed and running speed in FF is waaaay to low.
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Ok, I'll make EXAMPLE numbers bellow the power description that shouldn't be taken with more consideration than the general idea.
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Yeah would be nice, but how I said, the general Idea is really cool, just abit more benefit for the frenzy itself, I made a own rework and I put in something like you have for a duration after getting your frenzy stun a faster movmentspeed as base, so from 4,4 M/s up to 4,5 M/s after you hit someone with frenzy.
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I made it now, go there and check it out.
Also, you don't need to increase the speed if you reduce the fatigue duration, that seems overkill to me.
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I would like to see your opinion about this, as you are a math lover. Maybe your help would make some good values. I don't like the numbers without testing but you have a good understanding of how things work in this game.
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like it :)
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Yeah now with the numbers it seems very nice, its a good idea, I wish they could bring that in the game but well... its ######### bhvr sadly. I used to main Legion before the nerf, I loved the fast running and vaulting gameplay, now its just too slow and boring.
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They said they were in early delevopment of legion changes in another discussion of mine but not to have any hopes for now because nothing is final and confirmed. Also, they are listening to the community when changing legion, @Peanits said that we had pretty good ideas in the forum that were passed to the team to take into consideration.
Light shines again xD
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Am i the only one that sees the "reduced fatigue for each survivor" being broken?
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This is a way for you to get rewarded for chaining hits and chaining 4 hits isn't that easy and also brings you lethality that legion completely lacks.
Maybe reduce the mending time from 15 to 10 in exchanges for this. But with the correct values this would fit legion perfectly imo.
It would only be broken if legion was a 4.6 m/s killer that he isn't in this rework.
It's a matter of testing, but the idea itself isn't broken.
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Legion is actually in a pretty good spot right now.
Play with ruin/thana/enduring/pgtw.
focus on gen defense and keeping everyone injured, you'll have 10 to 20 min games with consistent 3 and 4ks.
Survivors don't like to play against legion because when played right he doesn't stick to chases so they can't really loop him and waste time. You're constantly switching targets and you become very unpredictable, which puts the survivors in situations where they get caught out more often.
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Even two hits give you a 1,6 fatigue time. EVEN with 4.4 m/s killer (that can first catch up with FF) would be really good
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It's 1.4 and i said that the numbers are only examples and you should ignore the eaxt values, they are only there to make a better understanding of the idea itself. The exact value could be 0.5,0.4,0.6 idk I'm not a dev so i can't test it. They can take the general idea and change one thing or another and then put the numbers on it.
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What you described is purely bad design. Even if that is how legion is better now (even then being very bad) that's not what he was designed for. He was supposed to be a killer that rushes down survivor and is fast, the opposite that he is now.
So, basically, they are badly designed now and devs are still in VERY EARLY development to change them. This just proves my point.
3 or 4 kills with legion or you are out of red and purple ranks, or the survivors that you get are really bad and dont understand the killer.
Their power is so exploitable by survivors that i always pray to face a legion so i get a free win. Also it's not just power that counts when you are playing, this game is supposed to be fun and what you described is being unfun for survivors and imo legion is very unfun to play now.
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it isn't bad design. Calling it bad design because you don't like it doesn't make it bad design. Legion was always intended to be a target switching killer. Killers exploited his first version by Moonwalking to drop the chase so that DW would kick in and they could down people super fast. Or by using franks mix tape to stay on 1 target and down them. Again, this was NEVER how legion was meant to be played. KI was meant to get killers to target EVERYONE, so they'd all be injured.
I consistently 3 and 4k with legion at R1 against R1. You just don't want to adapt to the play style that works for legion, instead you want to play the way old legion was played.
The legion we have now is perfectly playable at R1 using the playstyle I have described, liking it or not, or thinking its fun or not, doesn't change that its playable.
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The problem with legion now is that they have stall power and don't have a way to finish survivors. Being a 4.6 killer that only goes after a survivor and m1s is really bad design and can be looped without being able to do anything about it.
Behaviour already made it clear that legion has a bad design and most of the people in the forum agree with it. Some even say that he has no power, and i agree.
He isn't capable of making everyone injured. what you described is how legion is now technically, not how in reallity he works. Only stupid survivors don't run away from a legion that stabbed their friend and hear a terror radius, sometimes people don't even waste time bothering about deep wounds.
I don't want to make it personal as you did, because i played old legion as the new one is SUPPOSED to be played. Even then, legion is poorly designed their power is the most restricted in game and the less rewarding. It's pure math and logic, no subjectiveness involved.
I have more than 600 hours on legion and 400 of them are on the new one so how am i not adapting to it?
It's a matter of seeing the power and thinking about it. It's the only power that has 0 help in chases besides people not cleansing against plague which is a flaw on her design. People are supposed to cleanse but being at 1 hit down isn't threatening enough to do so.
As you see, every killer should be helped in chases with their power, or to map travel, or to track. Legion can only track when they already have someone in their screen so it is already a downside.
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Just watch this list I made.
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The magnitude of the fatigue reduction is a bit too high (or the base fatigue is too low for a similar reason).
Having a practically free down after getting a 3-4 stab is fine, however the issue is that you can do the following:
- Stab someone with Frenzy
- Catch up with Frenzy
- 2.3 second fatigue
- 7.475 second chase later and he's downed.
This is extremely fast, easy and refreshes the Frenzy bar.
For a Killer that's supposed to be best against a group this is too much lethality while outside of his strengths.
If this was all the Killer had then that would be fine, the clown for example can get similar numbers. However the issue is that this Killer is supposed to be extremely effective against Grouped up Survivors in particular, so having it be also super effective against isolated targets is a bit too much.
I'd suggest having more scaling on the speed or duration and take away some of the scaling on the fatigue and initial speed.
Specifically I'd suggest 16 seconds for the extended power duration and 5.6 M/S for the extended speed but 0.5 reduced fatigue and 5.2 M/S initial speed.
That's a 9.6 meter initial effective range and a 25.6 meter extended effective range. By comparison the current legion is a 10 meter effective range.
In other words if you see someone with Killer Instinct then you can definitely reach them for sure so long as you have a straight shot at them (baring TR manipulation perks/addons of course).
The range you have currently is 19.6 extended range btw.
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Thanks a lot for the feedback! I knew it would be helpful. Some of the numbers that i've put there (the fatigue reduction, for example) were simply to make people understand better the general idea behind his rework.
I'll change them.
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Off topic* What do you think about the new killer's teaser?
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I hope it's another multi-mode Killer like Doctor was.
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That would be cool and there are theories that he can come back in time but i'm not that sure about it. I think that things coming back was only an animation to make it more epic.
If you want to talk more about it, make it on discord so we don't get out of the discussion.
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again, it hasn't made legion unplayable, nor is their power worthless. There is just only 1 way to play them right now, but it does work. Are their counters to it? yes all killers are counterable. BHVR has shown this is their desire, that is why they nerfed nurse.
Its apparent they want all killers to have a hard counter play. This isn't a bad design, its not a competitive design, but it isn't a competitive game.
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I know that every killer should have counterplay and downsides, but the gap between feral frenzy's upsides and downsides is so huge that makes no sense. Also, to make it fun to play against you need to have counterplay and interactive mechanics.
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I think that must be some vantage to hit 2 times the same survivor in feenzy. Like for esxample make oblivious state on a survivor hit 2 times consecutively. Dont know, something that.
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Making them oblivious will make deep wounds reduce in chase and survivors are on a timer, a more unfun legion than before and braindead. I dont think that that is a good idea.
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