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DC Time-outs COMMON!
You know the reason why Rage quits are a thing? IT is because this game's lack of solid counterplay. Players are frustrated and just BAIL.
1 ) Calm spirit and Spies from the shadows was a good mix.- So that is the only positive there.
2 ) BBQ and Distortion with 3 ticks. NOT a good mix. - Killers will disagree on this one. ;)
3 ) End game Collapse. Player is not going to find the hatch quick enough and the exit gates ALWAYS spawn next to one another. The thing has 3 giant industrial grade red lamps that burn VERY bright and are seen quite a ways off. ALong with a hockey-Rink buzzer that ANNOUNCES the efforts made on the gate. Yeah...
4 ) Slugged survivors. Great. we are supposed to sit around in the dirt and have NO way of getting up. The killer gets to slug us. Not hook us and walk away for a BIO or to surf the interweb. So if they do that. You gonna ban killers for "holding the game hostage?" NO. Probably no. and the response of bringing a Bill perk because its meta now.. Yeah that isn't going to hold up.
Before you all start punishing Disconnects. Why dont you ask people why they DC or pull on the hook in the first place. Its not about bad sportsmanship, toxic or salty behavior. Its about players that are fedup with counterplay going away. If that is the case. We are better off yanking on the hook and moving on to the next match. Sorry.
Comments
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The end game collapse and being slugged are not valid reasons to disconnect. In both scenarios, the game ends within a few minutes. With the EGC in particular, it might end even sooner if you try to escape and fail. I have yet to see someone disconnect because Distortion only has three tokens and the killer is using BBQ; most people will hop in a locker once they realize the killer is using BBQ to hide their aura.
If you're disconnecting over things as minor as that, you're disconnecting excessively and probably will be waiting for the timeouts quite often.
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I mean I'd be more than willing to jump on over to killer if I can get some solid que times and tally the amount of dc'ers I can get after slugging them and forcing ECG :) .. (not trying to be rude here either). Im seeing it more often.
----updated posts 10 48am cst)
If it helps our community. Im down for it. Im going to grab lunch up at our local Pit BBQ and I can get back into the Frey and post active feedback. I really dont want to see the game go away like H1Z1 did. Maybe we can get some solid stuff going here and start pooling ideas here.
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I just had a team mate go.
First 30 seconds of the game. Killer had spawned in on em. Ghostface.
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@Peanits If EGC isnt a thing, then when will the exitgate spawns revisited? I already had games with Exits being literally next to each other. Hows that not supposed to make people rage quit? never mind if its right or not in any case)
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for sure, there are some things in game that just absolutely SUCK and if you happen to run into them its like nope, DC, this is a bad game lol
maybe if things like camping were fixed, or if being on the hook/slugged didn't completely take the survivor out of the game for so long (and increase likelihood they'll be btunneled) youd get less DCs
but yeah, somethings in this game are just so bad i dont blame someone for DCing, its not worth it lol
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It's funny because from a killer perspective the spawn games are always on the opposite corners of the map, as survivor they are always in spitting distance.
Also i've pretty much stopped running BBQ because past rank 10 i rarely spot anyone because everyone knows to hide behind a gen or in a locker.
as for slugging and leaving you on the floor at the end, never actually seen it, but i guess it's kinda like the survivors standing at the exit gate until the killer either turns up or the EGC is almost 0. Some people just love to waste time.
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Then why play the game at all? Dcing apart from a real life issue, game crash or server issue is never acceptable.
If a killer is camping then dcing or killing yourself is the silliest play any player can make. You just rewarded the player and made it easier for them which means they have no reason to not do it over and over. If camping is to dissapear then it's in survivors hands to make it happen by punishing the behaviour.
Slugging is a strat and one which unbreakable along with tenacity helps counter. These perks were made to help with that strat and should be used by those who get annoyed by it.
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Keep those time outs coming i am so tired of people making excuses for DC, nothing worse then playing survivor and watch a guy leave because he hates the map, killer downed him or other garbage leaving his team a man down. Don't get me started playing a killer and i watch people DC because they dont like the killer or they are the first downed etc etc etc etc ive seen it all. i hope the time outs stack for them!
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Respectfully,
I could revise my statements a million times. But IMO I would start asking people why they rage quit and take it as feedback to the future of a game community. Overwatch just did their whole deal with Role Que and I can certainly say that I highly doubt they have 35 million players anymore.
I don't sit in the hot-seat and I am only a customer.
Since the topic of DC punishments and time-outs is posted. I am going to say that it is clear, and evident. Within the reason beyond a doubt. That this game has a DC epidemic. To me, that is the stars aligning, for what storm is to come. And, I would look at WHY people are leaving. at those key points in times. Just like we would look at "Ground zero". If I was to put my betting-chips on the "gambling table". I would say it is these reasons to the increase on rage-quits:
1 ) Killers being spawned on top of survivors.
2 ) Bad Aura-perk counterplay
3) End Game Collapse
4 ) "Safety nets" for survivors. (pallets, hatches, loops, window mechanics, Exhaustion perks).
5 ) The rank-gap reasons of why players left that match and bailed.
Im not here to troll or start an argument. But I would REALLY consider researching with player feedback. Just put a survey out and ask these questions. See where the day takes you. :-)
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the answer to the question why are people leaving is simply because they can.
Probably what you really wanted to ask is why people get upset - ok, we can talk about it, but still you shouldn't be able to DC without punishment. If you (generic you) get so upset as to rage quit a pause from playing comes as a good thing both for you and your next team mates.
EDIT: just to elaborate a bit - players will always be pissed at something, there will never be a perfect balance and even if there would people would still rage quit for their mistakes. There's no reason - no reason - to DC. Even being held hostage is basically a myth - in 2 years of playing I was never being held hostage for more than a few minutes.
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Im sure it is different for each rank of players.
With this game it will always be a 50/50 now with this community.
Survivor - "I am fedup with the bull about a killer that can see me hiding and there are nearly NO lockers."
Killer -" I am fedup with SWF groups. OP point farmers. I hope they get ECG'D for butt dancing in the exit zone."
The game already has a BAD time creating matches. I highly doubt it.
But yeah. I can say that slugging survivors for 10 minutes isn't fun and would force or cause anyone to rage quit
Post edited by InnCognito on1 -
You say this like people only DC when killers slug, gets to the EGC, use BBQ (?) or something along those lines, something that you find unfair. Even if a killer plays the game as basic as possible, no perks, no add ons nothing, they still DC. But keep blaming the killer for every rage quit
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I just slugged 3 survivors over the course of 15 minutes. I let the 2 bleedout and at the end of the match, they would all agree that this mechanic needs to be addressed.
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Honest question, do you consider anything a VALID reason to disconnect? There are ways that disconnects can benefit the team, and if a player is trying to keep at a certain rank without harming the team, they can play the match through and just DC before escaping.
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DC'ing so far has been a mad strat for Countering BBQ. 4-man or 2-man SWF. If your fellow survivor-friend is left behind and they are telling yah in voicecoms that they are nowhere near a locker. They press "LEAVE" and they are near the hatch.
:-P ....
To add to this discussion @Peanits
Respectfully,
We play already by an Un-OFFICIAL set of rules. Such as "thou shalt not camp thy survivor" and " thou shalt not tunnel". Even as JOKED by Samination. Which has outlined this game VERY well on youtube. That the thing is. Even IF the penalty IS there. The fellow player WILL EXPECT their other fellow community member to TAKE the penalty for sake of sportsmanship. That is what makes this so "dangerous" to come up with a said rule.
Just like in the past (and present). 2 Survivors remain. The other survivor on the hook WILL pull on the hook, to give the other survivor the hatch. Instead of waiting around and allowing the killer to make tracks and locate the survivor.
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I literally cannot believe people are defending DCs. The game is the game. If you can’t be bothered to learn how to play and counter aura reading, camping or whatever else, then you should uninstall and save everyone the trouble. There is no good excuse for DCing.
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I had several poor matches today. And for a moment I considered as I struggled on my second hook why players simply disconnect when they are not having fun. Then I was rescued off the hook which bought me a few more moments game time.
A close friend of mine shocked me today by saying she didn't give two s-- for ranks, all she wanted to do was the dailies and the challenges. Which is fine. But I guarantee she would be upset if every match she was denied her daily or the challenge or kept failing. She has logged off before due to these frustrations, but in my case unlike her I play to get better, and part of that is showing to myself I can rank up and hold the rank.
Maybe its a poor reason but I consider players who are level 50 P3 and higher rank than me are better at the game and give me something to aim for.
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In no way am I defending a person that leaves the match.
The reason for the discussion is. Is it has become the "norm" for leaving the match as a Strategy. Sure, it is unrealistic. But this problem came about. Because it is the result of underlying causes. As I have posted, at the top of the page. Those are the common reasons to a rage-quit.
Is it appropriate, NO. But dynamics that have been added into the game have changed this title drastically enough. TO push the game into this negative vortex. I mean look at it this way. If I bought Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. N64 for console. If i Turned it on today (cartridge works of course) and started playing the game. WOuld it still be the same game? The answer is "YES". I could turn it on, play the game and still find my Deku shield at the Forest Shop and still fight Ganon the same way, every time. But with online games they shift. Usually for the better.. but for ONLY awhile.
We've reach that point, where the paradigm shift causes these problems and begins flushing out community members. But at the same time. A small game has to remain FRESH. Understable. However large changes carry MORE weight-of-impact than smaller ones.
However examples of UN-addressed changes can have the SAME, if not greater impact.
I just played a match an hour ago. I SLUGGED those survivvors to no avail. DO you really think that they will want to play a match AFTER that? NOPE. Probably not. I told them why I did it and even shared with them a link to this discussion. Sure, they did NOT disconnect. But did they want to "oh yes they did" and does it make an appealing game for them? Probably not now.
We can see this as a HORROR game where survivors have to claw their way, away from DEATH itself. But it doesn't feel like the rush knowing they are now stuck. The fact of the matter is. If they could pull themselves from the brink of Death, up again and get back into the game. Can you imagine how much more that would add to this game? I am not talking about the survivor that is toxic, gets right back up and continues again either.
I guess to sumarize this, End game Collapse NEEDS the first re-work all together and I would bank money on the fact that the other issues such as DC'ing would start to go away.
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Ok. Let me just clear something up because I'm not 100%.
When you say slugging, do you mean slugging a player when everyone else is dead/hooked and just leaving them on the floor till they bleed out?
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Today people are disconnecting because everyone plays spirit with prayer beads. Thats sad for everyone :( 😨😰😱
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Slugging would be; leaving a survivor on the ground until they bleed out and ignoring them for the rest of the match. Anyone comes for a rescue. Hunt them down, drop them and walk away.
Then go find pallets, generators and look for the hatch. While they stay there until the bleed-out timer completes. If they get up. down them again and leave them until the Skull appears.
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2 ) BBQ and Distortion with 3 ticks. NOT a good mix. - Killers will disagree on this one. ;)
A bit off-topic, but Distortion is more about having information rather than directly countering aura perks. You see it proc -> you guess what perk showed your aura and adapt your gameplay to avoid it happen again. Or it could be used as backup when you don't have to to do that.
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DC equals trash, end of story.
I understand being frustrated with game designs and choices, things being unfair in their execution, sometimes the odds are stacked against you and it is purely because of how they were designed; it doesn't feel good and we understand that.
It is still not okay to intentionally make the game WORSE for everyone else.
It is not ok to intentionally make other players lose because you're having a bad time.
Your fellow teammates lose when you DC, they lose Rank and they lose any possibility of getting points. That Killer either plays the game out and has a chance of other players DCing too or farm and hope everyone stays so they can recover from what that DC Trash did so selfishly.
If you DC because of problems in the game, you make those problems worse for everyone else. You suffering was multiplied and you intentionally made everyone suffer because you were having a bad time. That is why people get punished for disconnecting, because it isn't fair for everyone else.
The game has problems that need fixing but we need to work together to fix them, not spread dissent and chaos.
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I mean hell, your not talking about just slugging, your talking about slugging someone and tunneling them so no one can get them back up and healed. At that point you should have already lost the game as the other survivors should have done all gens.
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Survivors rage quit because they dont want to die. Ive been messaged enough hate simply for playing the game been accused of camping etc.
Honestly camping is a funny one to me didnt they make it so that if a killer is close to the hook and there are no survivors nearby they loose points rather than gain them? What i dont understand is that when someone is getting camped people attempt a rescue possibly throw the game. Where as they could just gen rush and at the least 2 of them escape. Plus the killer looses points. If 3 gens can be done in 1 min with optimal play and hook timers are 2 mins i dont see why you cant do gens have 3 people escape against a camper and punish the player.
The most common dc i personally see is if someone is downed fast because they werent paying attention just bad plays or its genuinely against tunneling or camping killers and they dc and throw the game for everyone else in the lobby.
No one wants to be camped but if you can quickly get gens done you can punish the player for doing it yet people prefer to dc.
On the killer side i mostly see rage quits against swf teams that play well and the killer cant handle it and all escape tbagging at the gate and the killer gets mad.
Theres also the dc so the other person gets hatch which can happen in swf groups.
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I don't consider bleed-outs to be minor. It's my biggest pet peeve. On the night of rank reset, I had several matches where survivors were left to bleed out and anyone coming to their aid were slugged as well. I had 3 matches where I was left to bleed out the entire 2 minutes. People can say it's not that big a deal if it doesn't happen often, but when it happens repeatedly, the amount of time wasted adds up. Personally, I don't get upset at others for dc in that situation. Usually I go AFK and do others things to pass the time. Also, I've come to realize that perhaps I need to not play the game for at least a week after rank reset. I've been slugged, camped and tunneled in more than roughly 75% of my matches since rank reset and that's just ridiculous. Solo survivor is hard enough as it is.
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Either way. I've made valid points and people at this topic can discuss or put up with a game that will nuke itself fast. The same arguments were made over on Daybreak studio's website about their major issues and well.... If the community wants to not have a civil discussion which can improve their game. OR, I welcome you to the same table of H1Z1. DEFUNCT and GONE.
They had nearly the same issues over there. Except the game never made it out of "beta". There was the mechanic of GAS, which closed the area down. They kept changing it and not addressing why people weren't happy. So yeah.. 50/50.. *SMIRK*
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Throw in garbage hits that become free kills, bugged perks like resilence not kicking in at all even without thana, times when you can't get healed at all because dbd decided you can't, when you loop, do gens, unhook and then get rekt with noed because you team couldn't even do totems, constant dodging of secret offerings->coming back to lobby simulator
When I get one normal game after 5 ######### shows I sometimes really don't care and small thing can make me rage quit.
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I never played H1Z1, it looks fun but it looks like you can die fairly easy before actually being prepared to fight, battle royales aren't really my thing. Unless I'm an idiot and don't know what H1Z1 is and I'm thinking of PUBG. I agree that problems need to be fixed and once they're fixed the DC rates will go down, that's a given. I was just stating how I personally feel about DCs and why they're bad, I also assume most people who DC are just being toxic and not doing because they feel the game is intentionally against them because it isn't unless the servers are lagging so bad and playing is impossible. DCing for that is totally understandable and I don't argue about that; if you can't play you can't play.
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« The end game collapse and being slugged are not valid reasons to disconnect.»
So there are valid reasons? But you will never say which ones.
Moreover, I do not read any answer to this: « Why dont you ask people why they DC or pull on the hook in the first place. »
There are many things intolerable in this game... like camping, which is not always a legitimate strategy as many like to repeat this, and you know it. Since the qualitative events will be abandoned for the moment to focus on the health of the game, I hope that these things will be resolved before 2021.
Remember a good doctor treats the disease, and does not punish the patient when they see symptoms.
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With dedicated servers devs will probably make punishment for DC. About time, if you ask me. Just wait, you tilted pip stealers...
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what is your proposal for endgame collapse? Actually curious, not trying to be a dick.
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Problem here is YOUR reasons for DCing are not EVERYONES reasons, so if you do not punish the real problem (DCing in the first place) then everyone will find a reason to "justify" DCing.
Punish DC its far from a foreign concept.
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Correct, My reasons of finding a person bailing isn't just the only reason. I do believe that ECG snow-balled this effect though.
I mean if we think about it. The game really wasn't that rage-inducing until ECG. We could put up with BS hits through windows. Rubberbanding here and there. TEAM MATES that flat-out did awful that match and in the end. The remaining survivor who stayed in the game was given that chance of escape. It was the small incentive to keep on playing.
My suggested changes (suggestions).
1 ) ECG starts as soon as the FINAL generator falls. - FAIR. We don't want the survivors that continue to BUTT DANCE in the exit zone.
2 ) ECG, Add an additional 10% reduced tick-rate on the ECG Clock if there is a survivor on the hook, and an additional 5% added per survivor on the hook. The game really needs 6 minutes for any plays to happen.
3 ) During a "hatch situation". There is still ECG But the hatch can no longer be closed and killers may NOT "snag" a survivor going into the hatch. IF killers want that 1-shot down for the hatch. Bring NOED and survivors can "Do bones". EXIT gates will NEVER have their RNG fixed. Bottom line.
4 ) During ECG, scratches are no longer visible. The whole ground needs to be LIT up bright, cherry-red like it was on BETA testing phase week 1 from ECG PTR testing.
Sure, my idea is dumb, but this is a discussion. Share.
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I concur there are problems with the game everyone knows that, but one would be hard pressed to find a multi-player game that doesn't have issues. The aim is to try to bring something to the table so devs can make your game of choice better should they care enough. But to try to excuse DCing means you are excusing toxicity in general. People who complain about perceived disadvantages and then proceed to willingly disable their allies at the drop of a dime are pretty hypocritical, and probably shouldn't be playing games in the first place.
This game specifically was never designed for anything to be easy, and I don't think people understand that.
From the DBD community in general what I have observed is nothing is ever perfect or enough and people will always ######### and moan on both sides. In all my years of playing I have never seen slugs of the caliber you mentioned, and what slugs there were other survivors were smart and skilled enough to get the killers attention and lead them around while the others healed up, or they had perks that allowed them to get up on their own. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, no one is ever going to always win or have odds always in their favor.
Now I play both killer and Survivor and honestly the most DCs I have seen have either been because a person was camped which I get is not fun, but more often than that I have seen someone simply get downed by the killer and immediately leave. Basically throwing in the towel due to lack of skill, and often they are downed because they for some reason decided to teabag and play games only for it to end extremely poorly. Such players have no business in this game in the first place because all they do is make it worse for the rest of us. They don't seem to bring constructive criticism, just easily solvable to nonsense complaints and justifications that aids nothing.
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Actually Peanits will Distortion ever have a way to replenish tokens or was that tested in development and proved too strong?
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Rages will always be there. But the way I see it. I've been in plenty of decent amounts of games with a 3-man. Being out that ONE survivor. If that one survivor just flat-out bails on a bs hit. I've played through a decent number of games without them. If they rage before they are hooked. BBQ doesn't proc. VS if they hook and then pull on the hook.
There is literally ZERO difference from DC'ING OR pulling on the hook. We still get equally cheated.
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As for Distortion - Yes. Distortion NEEDS to be exactly like "Calm spirit". as well as a DEFAULT perk in the survivor tree or a NON DLC survivor tree.
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I mean the slugging thing is an easy fix... Give survivors a get up timer just like the hooks have a respawn timer...
I may have raged 3 times ever... And that's usually multiple games in a row of "crap" I don't find counter play an issue.. honestly 2 solutions to bbq, use a locker it run to the hook and hide in the no aura radius..
The biggest thing I see with this thread is people want to play the game their way and complain when they die, instead of adapting to the perks the killer is using.. game would be incredibly boring if there was no on the fly adaptation
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Yeah. the ability for a survivor to get back up into the fight after a period of time. Would be freakin' amazing. Im not sure this will be popular opinion here. But something that takes away that team-slug situation would be nice.
I did that to a team today, as atrapper and I told them that I was going to be making a topic on these forums about it. The survivors agreed that something has to be done. Because nobody had fun crawling around while their bleed-out timers dwindled away and they didnt want to disconnect.
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lmao you think i care? im not going to die on some hill (or basement hook) to prove a point to a camping killer lol, ill move on to find a game thats fun.
if that killer plays in a way that i cant have any fun, ill dc for that too (there are no penalties afaik for now) get out of ohere with "its my repsonsbility to end camping" like no, if they don't have penalties for camping or dcing i'll take that as a sign lol
just saying, the game is fun when its fun but when there's sh like camping and slugging its like no, im not going to be slugged just so you can guarantee a 4k im gonna dc and hope someone finds the hatch lol. see in next gmae (until i get downed lmao)
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I couldnt' have said it better myself.
A reply to all:
. I look back and go "why don't I play 10 hours a day anymore."
When this game had a new DLC. I was like 'HERES MAH MONEY". Now im like.. mehhh...
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slugging as a strategy is ok, slugging as you're explaining it (that is: basically never hook anyone even if you have the chance to) can be considered griefing, and can lead to a ban.
In other words, you tried to prove to some survivors that if you play like a troll you'll be unfun. Well, yes...?
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Well dc punishments are coming and being tested atm with the dedi servers. They will lead to timeouts instead of the current % ban system and the timeout will increase the more you do it. If one member of an SWF does it then all will also be affected if they stay in the lobby with them.
It's long overdue and next hopefully will be a way to stop lobby dodging.
People will have to accept the game or as I said stop playing.
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I asked on it and so far I have been told that it is NOT griefing. If it is. I will play by the rules. I'd ask @Peanits and see if it is against the rules to SLUG survivors. Don't take my advice on the rules. Im a gamer, not a community manager and/or owner.
A killer's argument would be. "Well if they have decisive strike or adrenaline". Again. Ask the Devs or a community manager. I posted at the start of this little forum on it, and so far. It has been a 50.50.
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Just want to point something out here, there are somewhat reasonable (while still a little gray-area) reasons to DC from a match.
1) Killer has Dying Light, you are on death hook, and the killer just continually slugs you to take up one survivors time picking you up constantly, and keep YOU from doing anything from the match. Take the L and DC, you actually will be more useful to your teammate as they are now only down 1 person than 2, and now the killer has no more Dying Light slowdown
2) 3 gens left, you and your other remaining survivor are the last, you run the killer long enough for another gen (or skip all that and get to the main point) killer slugs you to try to find the hatch before hooking you and your teammate is teabagging like a madman to say "I HAVE FOUND IT"... Give it to em' That is even stronger in a SWF game where they can just say it without the teabagging.
3) Keeping your rank at something not dumb. I know plenty of people who refuse to play at rank 1, or any red ranks for
Long AF queue times
Lots of teammates who are just trashy
Overall not worth the headache to play there
and would rather stay at their purple ranks (which have really good queue times btw). Well, you can de-pip/de-rank in plenty of ways, but most of them are through being a trash tier teammate and hurting the team... So do what a friend of mine does, just play through the match normally and play your normal way, not trying to de-rank, and then at the end of the match, standing by the exit with the door open, just DC. It will de-rank you/keep you at your current rank and you get to stay where the queue times are good and people play well.
To say there is no reason for a DC is actually a lie, there are (what I consider) valid reasons to disconnect from a match. I do feel survivors who DC from matches should be punished, if it is a DC that is harmful to the team or because the survivor was just being high grade salt.
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So with lobby dodging people do that for a valid reason. BAD PING and people already arguing in chat. I joined in as a Claudette and I had some person call me a VERY VERY BAD WORD that starts with "N" and Im like. Yeah im not going to stick around for that... Plus if a person sees a bunch of Davids below level 10. They already know there is going to be a "NO MITHER" issue.
I mean COMMON. Do we really want to deal with NO MITHER. As a killer. YES, Yes we do. As a survivor.. GG dun dun DUN.
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That's easily done as if the ping is over a certain amount then there is no punishment.
While some will be rude there is not much that can be done about that. The option then would be to allow one dodge per 2 hours as that case is so rare. Then make chat optional as most players will wait for the end game chat anyway to be toxic.
The no mither argument doesn't hold water as that was an assumption and not guaranteed. I've never seen a bunch of David even at low levels all running no mither. Even if they did though it woukd part of the reasons dodging shouldn't be allowed as that was cherry picking a game and anything and everything someone decides to use is part of it.
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I read this thread and I see there's allot of DBD heads (very experienced players) in here. I'm not on the the game all the time but I would consider myself very good at the game and I've been playing since launch. I also play with a lot of random players on the game that actually speak and why they DC and I've read through threads like this before talkin about certain tweaks to the game but what me and most of the players I play with feel is that killers have maybe to much of a advantage especially when you only run into the op killers. I play both equally so I have no bias but for survivers it's quite frustrating on how you could never wiggle out, even if the killer downs you at one hook they can easily always bring you to another and Everytime you always have that lil gap of the wiggle out bar that no matter how fast you wiggle you can't get out. On top of that you can't use the flashlight to free your teammates anymore so if he picks you up you're done for and if he decides to tunnel you there's nothing you can do so people leave. Even with the boil over perk it doesn't really effect the killer much. I really can't say much for killers as they seem to get buffed, nerfed, and changed all the time. So im speaking from my surviver experiences. Please if you are more verse in the game and I and I've said something wrong pls let me know as I'm only speaking from what I've heard and experienced. Thx
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oh for sure, after they do that i'll just suicide on hooks or flat out afk, we'll see how it works out. game has many flaws, but punishing DCs will be a step in the right direction
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