Dear Fellow Survivors Mains

@weirdkid5 said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:
Victimization is good feedback's grave.

Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

Just found this video. It sums up DbD problems concisely. While it is outdated, it shows one thing.

Killer has always been, and likely always will be, frustrating to no end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnwdPlx9yR4

I watched it before, i can relate to it.
I went through every single negative thing the devs threw at Killers, whether they were justifiable or not, for i would assume it was for balance's sake.
I wouldn't always agree with them, frankly i moreso disagreed than agreed, but it's not my game, so whatever.
Except for one thing: The bug that made Survivors able to rescue Survivors from your grasp during animations.
I just didn't play during that bug's existence, the game was nowhere near any concept of fun.

And then they bring it back...
As a balance addition...
During an event...

Ever since then, i haven't felt excitement for anything yet, i will always assume they'll just ######### up some more.
This pallet-drop thing in the PTB? Holy ######### yes, it's so cool! But they'll find a way to cater to the Survivor complaints, and i can't be convinced to think in any other way anymore...

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:
Victimization is good feedback's grave.

Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

That they come from both sides is not part of that issue, both should be lended an ear, or an eye in the forum's case.
They're not blind either, most unfun experiences that are explained on here are experienced multiple times in quick succession before they'll write it down, otherwise it's something you can brush off.
If i only got a 4 DS SWF team every 200 hours, i don't think i'd ever complain about them.

That's what I'm talking about. "Both should be lended an ear". Exactly. That's why I'm against constant victimization and memeing, because it minimizes one side, to the detriment of the other.

@Tsulan said:

@Vancold said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:
Victimization is good feedback's grave.

Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

Killers complain that they are not enjoying the game, because its more of a chore than anything else. Killer is under constant pressure and experiences high amounts of stress. And don´t get me started on the bullying.
Survivors complain that they can´t pip anymore, because running in circles doesn´t grant them a auto pip.

You pretty much sumed up my point, showing what's wrong with this mentality.

"Survivors complain that they can't pip anymore wa wa wa killers complain for the right reasons wa wa wa". Yeah. It perfectly describes the killAr mAinz way to handle the "both sides" discussion.

In the end, the fun factor is a priority for both sides, because looping and camping are a big part of the game and the game can't get rid of those things as quickly as we want. Another big issue is that gameplay doesn't differ based off ranks. That's the crucial point of the discussion that, unfortunately, many killAr mAinz don't seem to get.

Saying as a killer main myself.

@Tsulan said:

@Vancold said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:
Victimization is good feedback's grave.

Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

Killers complain that they are not enjoying the game, because its more of a chore than anything else. Killer is under constant pressure and experiences high amounts of stress. And don´t get me started on the bullying.
Survivors complain that they can´t pip anymore, because running in circles doesn´t grant them a auto pip.

You pretty much sumed up my point, showing what's wrong with this mentality.

"Survivors complain that they can't pip anymore wa wa wa killers complain for the right reasons wa wa wa". Yeah. It perfectly describes the killAr mAinz way to handle the "both sides" discussion.

In the end, the fun factor is a priority for both sides, because looping and camping are a big part of the game and the game can't get rid of those things as quickly as we want. Another big issue is that gameplay doesn't differ based off ranks. That's the crucial point of the discussion that, unfortunately, many killAr mAinz don't seem to get.

Saying as a killer main myself.

Well, as i already said. The fun factor was only about the survivors. Not the killers.
Freddy got gutted because survivors had no fun while facing him.
Still waiting for survivors getting gutted. Because killers have no fun facing them.

I saw one major problem on the killer side, during that match. Your initial chase investment up to 1 character being downed and picked up was wasted. If you had hooked the first downed survivor and camped them (you were STILL at 5 gens) you could have easily won and the others would have most likely come to challenge you at the hook rather than do gens.

Instead of doing that, you let yourself be looped and ate a lot of pallets. You fed the survivors a lot of points and allowed them more chances to win (even if they didn't).

The above also makes the survivor's comment about "tryharding on the PTB" completely ridiculous.

@weirdkid5 said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:
Victimization is good feedback's grave.

Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

That they come from both sides is not part of that issue, both should be lended an ear, or an eye in the forum's case.
They're not blind either, most unfun experiences that are explained on here are experienced multiple times in quick succession before they'll write it down, otherwise it's something you can brush off.
If i only got a 4 DS SWF team every 200 hours, i don't think i'd ever complain about them.

What people don't realize is they try to tell the Killer's to "ignore it and have fun," yet they talk about how Survivors "don't have many options," and resort to using top meta perks, which ironically makes them tryhards. Rather than use other things and "have fun" they run the most optimal things. The perk stat usage doesn't lie. Most survivors rely on DS, SC, and SB.

The issue is, Survivors don't NEED to rely on these things because looping is already so crutchy, and simple skill will allow a survivor to run with no perks. There's 0 reason for people to rely this heavily on these perks other than they are unskilled.

On the other hand, there isn't 1 particular perk that is really overpicked for Killers, like SC is obviously waaaay overpicked, being used by 80% of survivors last time they showed stats. Killers tend to rely on a few perks that help their playstyle, but also because the game's mechanics are so skewed against them, it becomes nearly impossible to win using anything else, no matter how skilled you may be, as we saw with Marth's squad and how they bodied Killers using the sweatiest builds imaginable, USING ABSOLUTELY NO PERKS THEMSELVES.

Whether they're accurate or not, i'd REALLY like to see the devs release usage stats on Perks again, and this time in all kinds of ways...

Include ALL Perks, then...
Make a list on all ranks just for consoles.
Make a list on all ranks just for PC.
Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for consoles.
Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for PC.
Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for consoles.
Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for PC.
Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for consoles.
Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for PC.
Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for consoles.
Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for PC.
Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for consoles.
Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for PC.

@weirdkid5 said:

@Raziel said:
I saw one major problem on the killer side, during that match. Your initial chase investment up to 1 character being downed and picked up was wasted. If you had hooked the first downed survivor and camped them (you were STILL at 5 gens) you could have easily won and the others would have most likely come to challenge you at the hook rather than do gens.

Instead of doing that, you let yourself be looped and ate a lot of pallets. You fed the survivors a lot of points and allowed them more chances to win (even if they didn't).

The above also makes the survivor's comment about "tryharding on the PTB" completely ridiculous.

Exactly. I know the mistake I made. I tried to go with my usual strategy of downing more than one person, but it wasn't going to work out in my favor. I was already starting to realize the nonsense and opted for the basement despite there being a reachable hook on the left hand side of the house. If I had hooked them there, the match obviously would have went completely differently.

This is a prime example of how one tiny mistake can nearly cost a Killer the entire game.

Securing a sacrifice at 5 gens is a must. It is rarely given to a killer, and yes, I do mean given, since, if survivors do not mess up, you will NEVER get a hook at 5 gens.

I never pass this opportunity up. With only 3 survivors, map control becomes more than just a pipe dream.

5. Sorry, but dropping the chase against a looper is the dumbest thing you could do.

I stopped reading here frankly. If you don't realise as a 'killer main' that continuing to chase someone who is great at wasting your time while the other 3 do all the gens then I am not sure what to say to you. Can you even logically explain how that makes any sense at all?

I watched the clip and you didn't try any mind games on the Ming Mong you just followed her around like a faithful hound taking each stun in the face. You didn't even see the rest of them for the game so how they can be considered toxic is beyond me. The game would have been boring for them because you tunneled the Feng so they were on M1 gen repair simulator.

The fact is that good killers know how to manage the match better than this and make the game fun for all by hooking them up and regressing gens and generally having a 15 or 20 minute fun game rather than an 8 minute bore fest.

Of course sometimes you will get toxic survivors but I saw nothing here that was toxic at all it seemed you just got frustrated because she ran you for 4 gens and then they naturally tried to be altruistic because they had no points yet.

@Steebear said:

5. Sorry, but dropping the chase against a looper is the dumbest thing you could do.

I stopped reading here frankly. If you don't realise as a 'killer main' that continuing to chase someone who is great at wasting your time while the other 3 do all the gens then I am not sure what to say to you. Can you even logically explain how that makes any sense at all?

I watched the clip and you didn't try any mind games on the Ming Mong you just followed her around like a faithful hound taking each stun in the face. You didn't even see the rest of them for the game so how they can be considered toxic is beyond me. The game would have been boring for them because you tunneled the Feng so they were on M1 gen repair simulator.

The fact is that good killers know how to manage the match better than this and make the game fun for all by hooking them up and regressing gens and generally having a 15 or 20 minute fun game rather than an 8 minute bore fest.

Of course sometimes you will get toxic survivors but I saw nothing here that was toxic at all it seemed you just got frustrated because she ran you for 4 gens and then they naturally tried to be altruistic because they had no points yet.

Those 20 minute rank 20 matches sure must be tense...
If he ignores a high rank looper, chances are, that the next player is also a looper. Since looping is so braindead easy.

I never claimed to be a Killer main.

Apologies I misread the main on the opening post.

@Vancold said:

@Tsulan said:
Rank 1 survivor.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197986209573/stats/381210/achievements/
Now what?

Having previously saw your profile on Steam forums made my statement just a tease indicating scepticism.
It was more or less like saying: you don't even know what you're talking about.

So, let's agree to disagree, I guess.

I can live with that.
You might not remember, but we have been discussing those things almost a year ago.
Our positions haven´t changed since then.
So it might be better to settle it, by saying we both agree that we disagree.

On another note, i noticed how that Claudette was pretty much the icing on the cake in that clip.
She didn't even move to try and find the Hatch, she just waited there for you to pick her up, THEN disconnect.

How much of a sore loser can you be?
"I'll either wait until the last second of my bleed-out timer and then disconnect, or i disconnect as soon as i'm picked up, cause ######### you for winning, Killer."

It's still not as bad as people disconnecting during a Mori animation though, i REALLY want the Mori to not be able to be cancelled by the Killer, and then i want the disconnect button to not be available during the Mori. (Yes, they can still pull the plug, but that can't ever be resolved, so tough luck.)

@Steebear said:

Those 20 minute rank 20 matches sure must be tense...
If he ignores a high rank looper, chances are, that the next player is also a looper. Since looping is so braindead easy.

Sorry to have to inform you that some of us in the community can reach rank 1 without the need for Ruin and camping and getting all angry at the game and actually have FUN. We can have longer games where saves can be made and chases for all players where everybody ends up pipping assuming they don't make awful mistakes. Not all of us have a fixed mindset that 'all survivors at high rank can loop so I'll just tunnel all game and get angry'.

I have to ask, what experience do you have at the top end of the ranks as killer to suggest all survivors are so good at looping? It sure isn't my experience but then I don't chase the same person all game.

I never mentioned Ruin or Camping.
I don´t use Ruin, since experienced survivors just push through it, or know every totem spawn. So it either gets cleansed in the first minute or people just ignore it.
Usually i don´t camp. But nowadays everything is called camping.

But please, feel free to show me a match at rank 1 that takes 20 minutes.

I never mentioned Ruin or Camping.
I don´t use Ruin, since experienced survivors just push through it, or know every totem spawn. So it either gets cleansed in the first minute or people just ignore it.
Usually i don´t camp. But nowadays everything is called camping.

But please, feel free to show me a match at rank 1 that takes 20 minutes.

I didn't say that you had mentioned them I simply added it for expanse. I didn't indicate that I play at rank 20 but you felt the need to make a snarky and unnecessary post suggesting that was the only rank where such games could exist. I have informed you otherwise.

I don't personally stream but feel free to drop into any good killers stream and watch a while, I would recommend either Lefty or Fudge for starters.

Your last paragraph is exactly why I made this post in the first place. The mechanics of the game keep it from being fun for many high rank killers when they face survivors who know how to utilize them, it becomes nigh impossible to win. Most of the top level streamers, who mind you are pretty good, realize that everyone except Nurse pretty much has an abysmal time winning against the most broken thing in the game.

SWF.

But your post was not aimed at the developers asking them if they feel SWF is working as intended. You directed it at survivor mains. They are just using what is available to them. I don't need to 'win' to have a good time in game I just want to make it competitive. The balance issue is completely separate and not a reason for killers to hate survivors.

I've gotten to Rank 1 without camping as well. I also don't use Ruin. I have my matches on my twitch still, so I'm not sure the point you're making here.

I was responding to the (snarky) comment made by another user here not any point that you made.

You don't get frustrated at pallet looping. I'm not you, and that doesn't make pallet looping not an issue either. I have long games, I have fun matches at high rank. But these matches are few and far between, and almost nonexistent against high rank SWF squads.

I have not suggested that looping is not a possible issue albeit one they have specifically addressed in this update and has already been rendered less effective (you even referenced this in your video clip when you took the Claudette down)

What I am trying to say is that on the evidence presented in your clip, it is your methods as a killer that are hindering your efforts as opposed to something more fundamentally wrong or the toxic nature of survivors. You look pretty able with the chainsaw itself but what I am suggesting is that you can work harder to pressure survivors to your advantage.

I will give an example using your game, if you had broken off the chase as soon as you had the Feng injured you could have then gone and pressured a gen that may have had 2 others working on it, chances are you can get a quick hit in, regress the gen and then go hunting again, you know have a maximum of 1 survivor working a gen and 2 injured. This is opposed to continuing the chase and having 3 of them working gens and finishing them. One of these two scenarios is preferable to the other would you agree?

I've been tagged a lot in here.
Let's say it : I didn't read the first 3 pages, since you guys went apeshit. I'll just give my opinion about the round.
Don't forgot I'm in Europe guys, when it's midnight for you, it's 6 A.M+ for me, kek.

So I've watched the video and I'll be honest :
I didn't see anything wrong with it, except that the survivors did a lot of mistakes at the end of it, giving you a free win. I'm not sure about where your complaints are at, it seems like my everyday match at high ranks tbh (Except I do not commit that much to a single chase)

And yes, it's pretty stressful for the killer (sadly), but atm, that's how the game is designed and we're forced to deal with it if we wanna play.

I don't see much toxicity, just decent teamplay, decent repairs, and decent juking from that Feng that outplayed you a few times even tho she was pretty readable.
She did the usual thing most survivors do : She first plays greedy to see how you react, allowing you to, at some point (after several fails) get a free hit (that you could have got WAY earlier if you actually won the mindgames/had proper readings), and then, she played full safe not to risk to get caught and camped. She seemed very common to me, and would have totally deserved to be dropped since it's a clear case of a survivor wanting your attention in a strong spot of the map (the killer's shack).

You actually got pretty lucky this match to have been able to catch them due to their overaltruism (that Jake trying to heal around a Billy is a moron for example).

Let's resume it :

• You failed two easy chainsaw early game, even tho they didn't even move that much to dodge it.
• Then, you dropped that Claudette after catching her, which is rather debatable, especially since it's around the shack, and a hook was actually very close. Even a stack of 3 bodyblockers wouldn't have stopped you. But anyway : it was your choice and it's possibly your playstyle, and I respect it. Slugging is a possible good strategy for Billy. Slugging around the shack with full pallets around is still very debatable tho.
• Then, you tried to get a basement hook, which was obviously not gonna happen, since getting someone in the basement is already a 30%+ wiggle time awarded to the survivor, and you gave her 33% already with that drop.
• Then, you overcommited to Feng. You failed quite a bit there, I have to say. At some point, she started playing very safe with pallets, because she knew she could afford it, as her team was skyrocking ahead in term of gens, and you were fully going for her. She ran into gen empty areas on purpose (it was very visible) and emptied the pallets of these areas.
• Then, you (finally) caught her. And the other survivors went fullstupid and suicided on you, even tho you (STILL) failed a lot of chainsaw rushes that was very affordable.
• The disconnections are not an issue, it's PTB and the game was over. Move on to the next match.

I'm not sure where the complaints are at.
You missed a few clutch moments in your match, allowing them to get ahead of you, and they did several mistakes that made you to catch up.

That (long) chase with Feng is possibly the most debatable moment, but she actually read through you and even afforded to get a free hit just to try to be cocky.

Arguable points :
Yes, the gens are repaired super quickly, and yes, a single survivor can keep you busy for quite a while, tho it was partly due to your own mistakes and choices in here.

I love you man, but I can't support you on that one, even tho you can see that the survivors are kind of in control of the game if they don't fail (and they failed a lot this match).
Survivors weren't toxic, they were just random bodyblockers and obviously over-altruistic (like most survivors). No teabagging, nothing too cocky (except that extra loop she tried on you and earned her a hit), no flashlight spam, no syringue spam, no emote spams, and not even that much looping tbh. At least compared to the rounds I usually play at high ranks, that was NOTHING.

Cheers.

Survivors weren't toxic, they were just random bodyblockers and obviously over-altruistic (like most survivors). No teabagging, nothing too cocky (except that extra loop she tried on you and earned her a hit), no flashlight spam, no syringue spam, no emote spams, and not even that much looping tbh. At least compared to the rounds I usually play at high ranks, that was NOTHING.

This whole post was spot on.

@Mc_Harty said:
You played awful that round.

1. You missed a very obvious chainsaw hit - you even stated that you ######### up
2. Why would you drop the Claudette to break the pallet? You should have just hooked her then broke it.
3. Why would you then pick her up? It would have been better to down a fresh survivor and leave her on the ground. She would have had an easier time to get out compared to a fresh downed survivor.
4. Survivors shouldn't try to body-block to save their teammates and get points. Noted
5. You just followed that Feng Min all game. There were no attempts at all to trick her. This made you lose time because you were too invested in one survivor. You just kept running into and breaking the pallets. You didn't make it difficult for her at all to keep you busy.
6. Only the Feng tea-bagged. Once, when you hit her. So every survivor in that round was toxic?
7. Also while chasing you failed to regress any of the generators. There was one nearby the shack that was 50% that could have saved you more time.
8. You already won when you slugged the fourth survivor. The match was already decided. Stop being such a sore winner because they ragequit. ######### happens.

It was wise to slug that survivor near the pallet. If you picked her up no doubt the others would have stunned you, forcing you to drop her. But, Jesus man, if this is how your typical killers play, no wonder you hate pallets.

The main problem I have with this is number 1. As a killer you cant make a mistake or you lose the game. you miss a chainsaw? then a gen or two pops, because the survivor keeps looping you. Survivors can ######### up really bad and still make it out of the game.

@Mc_Harty said:
8. You already won when you slugged the fourth survivor. The match was already decided. Stop being such a sore winner because they ragequit. ######### happens.

I can pretty much assure you that in any competitive scene if someone win just because all your oponent decided to give up mid game said someone would be "a sore winner" because he doesn't deserve the win to begin with.

And before people get in saying it isn't a competitif game, it is.
As long as the only existing mode is a ranked mode against other humanbeing it is a competitif game.

weirdkid5 said:

@Vancold said:

@Boss said:

@Vancold said:
Victimization is good feedback's grave.

Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

I don't feel like a victim at all. I'm simply sharing my own experience in the game, and it was a frustrating one. I'm not playing the victim, I'm highlighting the problems within the game on top of the behavior of the Survivors, which is perpetuated by the devs keeping Killers a laughing stock. The math behind how skewed the game is for Killers proves it, just do the math on how long it takes to complete gens. 3 minutes. Any Survivor worth his salt can run 3 minutes with no perks and 0 loops, yet the Killer has to go hard from the start. There's no victim here, simply unbalance and unfair mechanics.

And I never said all Survivors are like this. I know they aren't. But a Killer simply can't afford to let up against any team, because any minor mistake he makes can nearly cost him the entire match, as my few mistakes nearly do. Survivors have, at least, one extra chance because of DS, and at most, a near infinite number of chances if they have comms and flashlights.

And you don't think Killers have a right to be angry or frustrated about it? And when they voice their opinion in such a manner, where politeness has been ignored for 2 years, you really expect them to just be ok with it? It took them how long to finally realize pallets are one of the biggest issues? They know the game is unbalanced, they said it already. And they are just finally trying to fix it. I give them props for it, but I'm afraid of exactly what you're complaining about.

I'm worried Survivors will shout with piss and vinegar, threaten to leave, and they will undo it all. As they have with a few things in the past. SWF was shoehorned in because of complaints, pallets were buffed because of complaints, infinites originally took "skill" according to the devs, the Nurse nerf where she can get stunned mid blink is still planned to return if I'm not mistaken, Freddy was nerfed in a week because low rank Survivors complained so hard about him.

I like they've stuck by the Emblem system, and hopefully they stick by the pallets. Now they just need to make sure the Killer is something you need to be concerned about again, not some laughing stock that can be overcome with some circles and communication that isn't even considered in the main balance of the game.

@Tsulan said:

@Steebear said:

The main problem I have with this is number 1. As a killer you cant make a mistake or you lose the game. you miss a chainsaw? then a gen or two pops, because the survivor keeps looping you. Survivors can [BAD WORD] up really bad and still make it out of the game.

There is certainly an element of truth in here. Killer mistakes are punished more heavily but then that is why I prefer playing killer, it is a challenge no doubt about it. However, it is still your mistake that has cost you in this scenario and I don't want band aids to soften the blow. We just need them to even the balance a little time wise so that there is time to recover.

I disagree. Survivors can make several mistakes and still escape. They got plenty of second chance perks or items to help them if they screwed up.
If the killer makes 1 mistake, the game is basically over.
The whole concept of the killer only being able to capitalize on survivor mistakes is flawed.

Imho not true, though. Killer has to pressure the map, this makes him under pressure because of a limited time span. I don't deny that this fact makes the killer under pressure, more than survivors, at least.

Nevertheless, killers can still make plenty of mistakes and win the game. I made a lot of 4ks with many gens up, while missing a crazy amounts of hatchets or blinks or getting stuck in pallets with LF's chainsaw.
There are some games where mistakes weigh more than others, sure, it depends on many factors; but it's the same thing for the survivors. For example: playing solo. You mistimed a pallet stun; you're downed. Killer hooks you and camps you. Game over. 1 mistake and that game is over for you. It's all about points of view.

@Vancold said:

@Tsulan said:

@Steebear said:

The main problem I have with this is number 1. As a killer you cant make a mistake or you lose the game. you miss a chainsaw? then a gen or two pops, because the survivor keeps looping you. Survivors can [BAD WORD] up really bad and still make it out of the game.

There is certainly an element of truth in here. Killer mistakes are punished more heavily but then that is why I prefer playing killer, it is a challenge no doubt about it. However, it is still your mistake that has cost you in this scenario and I don't want band aids to soften the blow. We just need them to even the balance a little time wise so that there is time to recover.

I disagree. Survivors can make several mistakes and still escape. They got plenty of second chance perks or items to help them if they screwed up.
If the killer makes 1 mistake, the game is basically over.
The whole concept of the killer only being able to capitalize on survivor mistakes is flawed.

Imho not true, though. Killer has to pressure the map, this makes him under pressure because of a limited time span. I don't deny that this fact makes the killer under pressure, more than survivors, at least.

Nevertheless, killers can still make plenty of mistakes and win the game. I made a lot of 4ks with many gens up, while missing a crazy amounts of hatchets or blinks or getting stuck in pallets with LF's chainsaw.
There are some games where mistakes weigh more than others, sure, it depends on many factors; but it's the same thing for the survivors. For example: playing solo. You mistimed a pallet stun; you're downed. Killer hooks you and camps you. Game over. 1 mistake and that game is over for you. It's all about points of view.

Difference is: survivor makes a mistake, gets downed, flashlight save, loop, downed, flashlight save, looped downed next to a wall, DS, loop, downed, pallet slam, loop, ohh joy the gates are powered, a 50 kg claudette blocks a 150kg clown so the injured survivor escapes.