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The game deviated so much from it's original concept, and became... something else.
Remember how it was when game just released? Darkness, tight, claustrophobic places with lots of corners to turn, or fields to be lost in, games that lasted really long because killer could not find the last remaining survivors... It was a great hide and seek expirience, where only infinites ruined the fun in games, but majority of survivors said that infinites should not be fixed, because "it's the only way to lose killer". Of course they were just bad at this game, bad at hiding and staying hidden, but they still wanted to win... Eventually majority of infinites were patched, but those bad survivors found another way.
And here we step into the new age of DbD, that does not deserve another way except "clown fiesta". When you see a survivor and a killer running circles around every single box, bench or other object in the world - it does not reminds you of a horror game, in fact only thing that's missing - is Benny Hill theme for things that happen in the screen to make perfect sense.
Survivors are not trying to hide anymore. They aren't scared. They know for sure that it's literally impossible to kill them all if they do not make mistakes, so instead they taunt the killer like a bullies, inviting them into the chase so they could show them their "mad skills" of running around the objects in circles.
Now a typical rank 1 game looks like this: killer finds survivor, they loop around the obstacle for 3-4 times, drop a pallet, break a pallet, proceed to another looping spot. When there is no more pallets left on the map - generators are usually done because it takes a way lot more time to "disarm" all the loop places than to repair all the gens. And even if killer will hook someone - survivors will instantly swarm that hook, and unhook the victim as soon as another of them will get hit, and then run away with borrowed time, or just instaheal and run away. If for some reasons the victim won't run far enough to make it to the gates (never happens, but still) - there is decicive strike, goodbye, have a great time! So let's say killer downed the same person again, thrid time - for that he need to tunnel really hard and ignore all the survivors who will bodyblock you, try to blind with flashlight or run around to make more red scratches... but let's say that for some miraculous reasons he did it, and did it faster than the gates are opened. Survivors instantly swarm the hook, surrounding the killers, asking him to hit them! And as soon as he does - they just unhook and run away with borrowed time, t-bagging at the escape gates. Turns out, the killer now plays the role of the victim, and the survivors are bullies who are not afraid at all and can do whatever they want.
And the developers encouraging this type of gameplay, making new, very open maps where it's hard to break line of sight a lose the killer, making game brigther and survivors having coloured suits that are easy to spot, so Claudette remains one of the few really viable characters for stealth gameplay. New perks do not discourage looping and encourage stealth, there is no changes to mehchanical side of the game, and the last nail of the coffin - are existance of the SWF mode.
Ability to play with comms makes game several times more easy for survivors and allows them to bypass lots of in-game mechanics. Actually, it's a legal way to cheat in this game. But people who run exploits or cheats do get punished, when swf premades who run comms - do not... Developers could easily either remove swf, or add voice chat to the game by default and then re-ballance it according to that change, but they perfer to close they eyes and pretent that problem do not exist. And survivors are happy. Remember how they protected the infinites? Well, just the same kind of people are cheating with swf now. They enjoy abusing this exploit, enjoy being way more powerful and gaining wins without putting any effort into that. And developers fully support them, giving a giant spit in the face to the all non-swf community of survivors and killers as well. Before de-piping was a good way to not have to deal with toxic swf premades, but now rank 18 killer can be constantly matched against full rank 8- swf premade for unknown reasons, so there is no way to escape them even after long and tedious (even game takes 15+ minutes to find) process of de-piping.
The game is a mess that screams for massive rework and drastic changes, but i quess as long as money coming from people who set up a giant hype about new killers who will be nerfed to trash tier soon after the release - nothing will ever change, amirite? I quess there is no hope of good old hide and seek gameplay to ever return to this game?
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I think this is what people mean when they say the devs dont know their own game, they don't. Because the game we're playing is not what they created.
I love this ######### because it's horror fan service but I don't think most of the people who play are actually horror fans
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Yes, actuall horror fans would puke at the only sight of suvivors constantly bullying the killer, and the killer playing a role of fool to enterten them while they run around the objects, and he can't even climb up on those objects.
Just look at the pathetic survival mentality in nearby posts, for example - this one - https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/105992/top-exhaustion-perks#latest
And here is the quote:
"1) Balanced landing (the fact that dropping down a cliff is faster than normal no matter what is so good in my opinion, it creates infinites) "
Seems like "being a loser who have to reach for cheats to win in the game" is a perfect phrase that can describe the mentality of absolute majority of survivors now, judging from what they concider "good" for the game.
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I feel like when a survivor and me run around a car it should play that joke chase music. It feels like one of those scenes were someone is chasing someone else and they both go to a opposite side of a table moving back and forth around it.
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Can't handle tiles I presume ?
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Chasing a survivor.
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KillAr mAinz on these forums are just.. roflmao.
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looping and handling tiles as killer and as a survivor requires more skill then just hiding for an hour straight.Thats why i love this game,the chases.If it was just hide and seek as it was advertised i wouldn't play it
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Im fine with a good chase im not fine with a area that makes it impossible for the killer to catch up. (Infinites).
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I enjoy getting chased more than hiding in the corner of a map and quite frankly as a killer I enjoy “running around in circles” more than looking for the last 2 survivors because they’re hiding somewhere. Most people find the chase the most enjoyable part of the game so why wouldn’t you invest in it as a dev?
Oni’s map seems quite good for being stealthy and the last time I checked Spine Chill and other stealth perks are still in the game so not sure why you would think the devs are against stealth play. I think Spine Chill even got a buff and you’re able to see Myers in T1 etc.
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Sure I try to hide.
Killer meanwhile has scratch marks, blood trails (soon to be somewhat less bad because of Yui's new perk), BBQ and Chili, Whispers, Infectious Fright, Surveillance, Discordance, Predator and etc.
You are correct, the hide and seek experience of old is long gone.
It's too easy for Killers to track, and Survivors have too many get out of jail cards to compensate. It's pretty dumb tbh.
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Then you have those teams that make you look like a absolute joke by all looping you and when you finally catch one blinded by flashlight.
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Never,chase anyone around those windows.What is so hard to understand?
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Oh yeah thats possible when every low rank survivor knows like every infinite in existance and when i find them they go right for the infinite. Many infinites have been fixed so far because of being unfair but many is not all.
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There is literally nowhere that the killer cant catch up though. Infinites are a thing of the past! Even balanced landing cant create infinites - just drags things out a bit. I suggest you play the game a bit more and learn how to play so you can know some of the basics! You'll get there in time - we were all new at some stage. Just dont let things like this frustrate you.
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Infinites dont exist huh pretty sure theres one in the farm map inside the barn if im not mistaken. (Dont remember map name ill have to check).
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Not a single window is an infinite.Its a big time waster out of which you get nothing.Run bamboozle if you have that much of a problem with them.That is also a reason why you need to catch people out of position,and not when they are near "infinites".I agree they should be removed from the game,but you will catch someone out of position sooner or later if you play smart,hook him far away from the "infinite" so that the surv that saves him is out of position aswell.
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Skill? If all your "skill" is enough to run around pile of crates 3-4 times, drop a pallet when killer getting close, and then run to the other pile of crates - you are really deserving a pity. Especially of you think that evading killer for entire game, but also managing to make repairs and help other people who are getting in trouble requires much less skill than "run to object, run around object, repeat" - because even trained monkeys could do the latter.
Don't fool yourself, you are not doing it because "it requires skill", quite the opposite - just like the infinite or swf runners, you are doing this because it's the easiest way to win and requires no skill at all, only knowledge of the maps.
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Games evolve. This isn’t a new concept.
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The issue isnt so much the survivors its the mechanics in the game. Survivors need to loop because thats the most effective way to waste time.
The horror aspect is there abit at least for me when im solo survivor but the power role completely changes around when i have played SWF to the point of if you want to be sweaty youre the one bullying the killer.
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so what you want is for survivors to hide,and once they are found they are dead?Sure bud.I would agree that looping on tiles on which you can see the killer over are easy,but good killers will use their red glow on tiles which you cant see them the best and try to mindgame the ######### out of you.You still need to know how to run the tiles,learn to conserve pallets,time vaults,remember safe spots at loops etc.Also u guys keep talking about these so called "infinites"there isn't a SINGLE loop in this game that goes on forever.And for record,i play solo and I have 0 communication with them,and i play with green and yellow ranks constantly aswell cause of ######### matchmaking.Like @PandaChris said survivors do it cause thats the most efficient way to waste time.If we played the game like you said,survivors would go down in 20 seconds
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If looping takes so little skill, why is there such a huge difference between a bad, decent and excellent survivor? I totally agree the truly mindless loops with no LOS blockers are trash for both sides, but most tiles require experience and knowledge of the possible tricks and mindgames both sides can use on it to be used anywhere near optimally.
But considering how you seem to consider in-game actions deserving of the word "bullying" and insist on calling the use of comms both cheating and an exploit despite the devs explicitly saying it's not, I can't really say much more than that. The game will clearly never be anywhere near what you want, if you can't deal with that and you want to keep insisting something is cheating when it straight up isn't you should probably just find another game to play. This one clearly isn't what you're looking for.
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I agree with the sentiments (though I will note that infinites were just as cheesy as what we have now, if not more).
When I first bought this game, it was simply because Myers came out and I consider myself somewhat of a movie buff and wanted to play as him. But I did so with the understanding the game was an online multiplayer hide-and-seek. And for a while it was.
I can kind of understand why it changed overtime; it needs a thriving online community that can survive at the highest levels even after the "scares" have long run off. Still, I think stealthy players aren't rewarded enough while survivors literally running at the killers aren't punished hard enough. Allow me to put it this was; I internally cringe every single time I see a killer or survivor referring to the stealthy playstyle as "immersed" in a derogatory manner.
Though I can understand why they do; its much less effective than running a killer in a circle around a box 20 times while the other survivors hold M1 against generators, knowing full-well that they're in safety. Also a lot of the current killers come in with this expectation from other competitive multiplayer backgrounds that it's supposed to be an action game rather than the likes of horror game fanatics and MGS and Splinter Cell players who wanted to see how stealth games play from the hunting perspective rather than the hunted. To those types of players from the former category the chase and not the hunt is what's entertaining and should constitute the bulk of the gameplay and not being able to find a Survivor right away this very moment is boring and they need their satisfaction NOW.
TLDR and Feedback; The game should have more options for stealthing around as survivor and be more rewarding for doing so, while also being more punishing for those survivors who expect to just take turns running loops around the killers for the entire duration of matches.
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Exactly what im trying to say,but people always say looping is still extremely easy no matter where you are,what tile etc
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Kudos for the Benny Hill reference, that would be hilarious chase music for the clown. BHVR make that happen please! Also i agree with most of your points except that i do not miss the long games in the beginning. Hiding blendettes that wouldn't do anything, no thanks!
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Friday 13-th did a good job at this - if survivors found they try to break line of sight and hide. If they cannot - they are dead.
I don't want for survs to instantly die when found, but i don't want them to loop around objects as well. The best way of action for them should be either using obstacles to remove line of sight and then hide, tricking killer into searching in wrong way, or instantly (not after loops) used pallet to block the passage for the killer, that allows them to run far enough and hide before killer catches up.
Also i don't really care about running around t-shaped tiles and other places like that that are used only to break line of sight and mindgame each other by changing or not changing direction of running, because those things ain't loopable a lot and there is no pallet to make them safe. The real problem is only with objects that create a circular path around them that ends up with the pallet for safety of looping, that makes looping process a real no-brainer. Example - piles of crates in woods or autoheaven, a wall and a pallet nearby, etc.
Lots of possible mechanics can exist to prevent loops. For example, giving killer ability to vault on crates and walk on top of them. Or use kicking animation to block the pallet from being used for next minute. Or make enraged killer (long chase) break trough pallets without noticing them, like a juggernaut. Or entity punishing a survivor for staying a long time on same place during the chase - both with minus bloodpoints (like for killers who camp hooks) and some gameplay elements, like slowing the running speed and giving them exaustion. Or i simply giving survivors a stamina bar, and not allowing them to run once it runs out - that would force them to get out of chases and hide to rest. Possibilities of solving the problem are endless, developers just don't want to concider any of them.
And infinites don't have to last forever (despite their name), it's enough for them to last until the game is over. But, for example, if you run around wretched shop against a slow-moving killer like Huntress (not, she can't hit you with an axe in that loop unless you are a moron), using only one window from two (so when it will be blocked you will be able to use second one, extending your loops to 9 total, because first window going to recover while you are using second one - it's enough to drag chase long enough for all gens to be powered. But also ballanced landing allows to run some of the actual infinites - that's exactly why it's getting nerfed. If you think that there is no infinites in game - you didn't use them as a survivor and don't play killer a lot, it's just that. Go ask people out and they will name plenty of them.
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To have true horror again we need killers like this:
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Developers can SAY whatever they want. If they do not support their words with ACTIONS, it's called TRASHTALK.
How could they support their words? Oh, it's simple - if using commns are not equal to cheating and have zero impact on gameplay ballance, then add voice comms to the game! Let ALL people use it, and then see what will happen to the game then, and how soon majority of killers will leave or demand massive ballance changes.
If they do not do that (of course, for "immersion" purposes, because running around the objects is obviously not hurting immersion, only voice comms - that's already used anyway), you can translate ANYTHING they say as "we know it's a huge problem of ballance, but don't want to do anything about it because swf bring us money for exclusive rights to cheat in our game, but we won't admit it publicly because we are not stupid, and this is our official excuse for that situation".
Imagine a mayor saying "We forbid everyone to use guns, except my friends who are above the law, they can kill whoever they can with the guns. Won't that create a problem in our society? No, i concider it's perfectly ballanced and i won't allow everyone to use guns because (input random made-up reason). But also all the killing my friends will do with those guns are not concidered a crime. Why? Because i said so, you stupid peasants! Don't like the rules - leave!".
That's how developers are treating you. You are merely a peasant who only deserves to hear "it's allowed". And you blindly repeat their sayings, obeying without thinking or asking for valid reasons, because deep down you know they will never name the real ones, because it will upset the people.
p.s. how many times must i say that tiles with possible mindgames are not the problem, the only problem is circular tile with pallets, where you can see survivor all the time, but can't get him before doing at least several loops?
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Sorry but i don't agree,considering how easy tracking is for killer.Also those loop stopping mechanics would mean you won't be able to actually loop if the killer can just vault a crate for example,u just die.Being punished by less bp for staying at a certain place is also a bad idea.There is NO INFINITES they are just god loops you can catch people around em its just not worth it to chase people around them stop exaggarating it that much.Just let them do that ######### iron works gen if they just keep going for the window,or let them do that wretched shop gen if you have that much trouble with those windows.I wish they removed them,they have been in the game for 3 years now probably even more but you just have to deal with it however you can.Its logically the best thing to do to waste time as a survivor.It is a brain dead godloop but its one of the best timewasters.I don't use them cause i know how it feels being looped for 2 mins around em.Another thing,i bet more people would enjoy chases then they would hiding and playing hide and seek cause its more dynamic unlike hiding in a dark corner while playing p3 claudette.
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Honestly, blaming voice comms as cheating is an excuse for losing.
Sick of hearing people spit nonsense and blaming everything else except themselves.
As an experienced killer, you are ALWAYS going to have trouble with experienced survivors. That's just a fact. It doesn't matter if they are in a swf, if they are using comms or not.
It's also a fact that comms don't make trash survivors any better. I have even went up against 4 players using comms (because the player was streaming and i went back to watch the vod), calling out everything and they all died with 4 gens still up.
At the end of they day, if you see this as a problem, you need to get good. Simple.
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Crona, i read your comment as "i don't want to get good at this game, so i will keep using broken and op mechanics to my advantage, but instead of admitting that i am unskilled noob who can't do better, and thus forced to abuse, i will try to deny everything without actually proving my words somehow".
Seriously, even swf-runners admit the tremendouns advantage that comms give them. Stop being such a pathetic apologist and learn to admit facts. Even best survivors will still play much worse without the comms.
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Dbd is Tom & Jerry but with Licensed killers.
Chasing Survivors:
Survivors Taunting and Tbagging Killer:
Pallet stunning Killer:
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Benny Hill
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Gotta say accurate.
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Games change but not always I like with the original vision but to keep up with how the players find ways to make things advantageous to them.
Looping is something which the survivors started to realise was a useful strat. Moonwalking is something killer started to use around certain areas which enabled more hits. This all opened up the idea for better mindgame capabilities.
Once looping came about it became apparent that it was something which really couldnt be fixed, many suggestions came about but almost all hindered other possible playstyles making it even more the go to strat and instead it needed some changes so it could be better worked into the game.
Its the same as the hide and seek scenario as while some loved the idea many complained about no being able to find people. The fun for the majority became more about the interaction between the two sides. Its evident hide and seek was something the players didnt really know what they were asking for especially as killer as one of the most complained characters has always been claudette or blendette as she was dubbed.
While stealth is an option for survivors and can be viable it can make for some very boring gameplay for the killer.
Multiplayer games change constantly as the players always find something which starts to become too overpowered with its use.
It's the same with the egc implementation. The hatch standoff was a player issue with two stubborn people refusing to let the other get the kill/escape even though it cost them more in the long run. I feel the devs underestimated just how long players would stand there just because they could or if some would just hide in the game to troll the other player.
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This isn't society, this is a video game recieving regular updates. Stuff will change, the vision of the game can change and the direction it's taken can change. You have the option to simply not play the game it if it goes too much against your wishes, you wouldn't have the option to just not participate in society at all if you're being oppressed in some way. Don't compare a game taking a direction you disagree with to peasants who simply have to deal with their situation outside of large-scale uprisings, that historically would just be considered rebelling criminals if they actually protested in any way.
They seem aware that SWF + comms is an advantage (which it totally is, by no means trying to argue against that) but they also seem like they don't want to go down the universal voice chat route or the SWF removal/restrictions route. There's advantages that don't even come from comms that can't be emulated in any way, like how a group of friends knows eachother's playstyles, strengths and weaknesses, so there's really no way to get rid of the imbalance entirely.
They seem more interested in pursuing the idea of trying to lessen the advantage, by giving solo players tools to be more effective (mostly information) and then changing killers accordingly. Myself I really wish they used PTBs to test theoretical ways to do this sooner rather than later, it could be as simple as just throwing up a PTB where survivors had some info perks implemented into their basekit and killers had changes to increase their efficiency as well, or bigger things like map/map generation changes, objective changes or other things.
And I did mess up with missing that you were referring to boring loops in particular. I totally agree there, I despise loops like the "trash pile" Autohaven loops both as killer and survivor as they're boring 99% of the time.
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So...would you prefer to play killer and spend an hour walking thru the grass to bump into some Claud?
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Sadly games evolve. While yes when this game first came out it was an actual “survival horror” game which felt like a horror movie, it was also so bad back then. Too many bugs, crashes, borderline game breaking glitches and even things the devs put in, it was a mess.
(hear me out). At this point all we can hope for now is the devs continue to change things and make the game a little more distant from what it first was so if by luck. The devs add a “classic” mode with the original maps, original animations, old atmosphere, and the old lighting. The player base would have to increase of course because lobby times might be bad but it’s something at least. Plus hey it’s an easy answer to another game mode people have asked for and I think it would be a good start :)
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The horror tone seems to be more like Scooby Doo than anything now “chase me killer, chase me!”
It feels like a disservice to the iconic horror legends they have licensed in game in my opinion.
The new killer looks great though and really surprised me with how scary and threatening he looks to play against.
I personally don’t feel very scared as survivor as long as I’m within reach of a building/structure or a pallet the killer has to break to get to me; there are little islands of safety in most maps where you can see over the loop and it’s so long once the pallet is dropped that I never feel in much danger.
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You could just say "they want to ignore the issues and have money from it". Having ways to deal with it but simply not wanting to use any is not the same if they could not do anything. They simply don't give a ######### about your poor expirience with swf groups. They don't care about how you feel about it. They are only after money swf group pays because they have fun with legal cheats.
And no mechanics added to the game will constantly inform all team about killer's location and actions, trap positions, warn about insidious camping or tell "he left, you can stop repairing and unhook". You cannot deny that advantate, it's not physicly possible.
If that's how you see a stealth gameplay, then it's obvious why you have problems with it. Or thinking in general. How about using perks like spies from the shadows or whispers to know where to look? How about patrolling generators and predicting retreat routes of survivors when they hear your aura?
Why the hell they changed lightining in first place? What's the point of game being so bright?
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First no looping then stealth killing aids? That's basically like asking for free kills at this point
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By the way, the more i think about this suggestion, the more i like it. It would really change the entire gameplay against this killer, totally ######### it from looping to being steahtly and making tactical choices and play mindgames. It would not even require to change the game mechanics, only to add one more killer who is really different from all others.
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idk, i see what you mean, but you have to adapt.
this kind of thing used to happen to me, too... but then i started to learn when to abandon a chase, how to pressure the map instead of just 1 survivor, how to make a chase end faster, etc.
bring anti loop perks, bring end game perks, adapt.
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@SolidSnake Kudos to you. Your OP is one of the better posts I've read on this forum.
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First, any killer, no matter how skiller he is cannot 4k rank 1 swf premade. It's simply physycly not possible unless they screw up hard on purpose. He will be lucky if he will have at least one kill in that game.
Second, i never said that survivors should not have a means to escape. I just said that they should not have loops. On previous page i suggesten tons of mechanics that would counter the loops as they are now, forcing people to run away instead of stalling time in one spot, but even a simple map rework would handle it - instead of loopable pack of crates give survivor a straight tonnel that can be blocked with pallete to gain distance from the killer, but is too long to loop around it - problem solved! Of course, in game with no more loops all maps will have to be redesigned, and perks like brutal strenght will have to go, but it cannot be done without massive rework anyway.
This is the list of mechanics that could work without changing the maps:
For example, giving killer ability to vault on crates and walk on top of them. Or use kicking animation to block the pallet from being used for next minute. Or make enraged killer (long chase) break trough pallets without noticing them, like a juggernaut. Or give enraged killer a free mory, make current chased survivor an obsession and allow to execute only him while fury lasts - this will force survivors to end chases before bloodrage pops in, and if they are not able to do that - well, they ain't playing well enough. Or entity punishing a survivor for staying a long time on same place during the chase - both with minus bloodpoints (like for killers who camp hooks) and some gameplay elements, like slowing the running speed and giving them exaustion. Or i simply giving survivors a stamina bar, and not allowing them to run once it runs out - that would force them to get out of chases and hide to rest. Possibilities of solving the problem are endless, developers just don't want to concider any of them.
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Just look at this pathetic gameplay as a survivor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpnzUdHlJs
Not only guy is never scared, stressed or even somehow feels like he is in any danger while constantly being found by the killer due to his poor hiding skill, but also he easily bullies the killers for entire game, not allowing them to do anything else but constantly chase until the gates are open. And that's not even some rank 18 killers, all of them are in the red ranks. This video sums up a lot of things that's wrong in this game.
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I mean, they are "Survivors" because they're surviving. You don't look at someone hiding behind a pile of tires or something scared for their life and think "That there is a real survivor", it just doesn't happen. Also keep in mind that canonically this makes sense as well, these survivors have been through these trials numerous amounts of times, they have seen these killers and what they do, all their different variants, etc. one hundred times over and then some. They know it's all just a "game" and that if they die this time, there's always next time, so they're obviously not going to be scared. If anything it gets boring after a while lol
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I read all your comments as "I don't like the game I'm playing, please completely change it exactly to my liking."
Get good or play a different game.
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