Why do survivors dislike NOED?
As someone who plays both roles, I have no issue with ''No One Escapes Death''. Sure, it's not particularly fun to play against, but if it does come into play, then it's entirely the survivors fault!
However, many survivors post-game give me a lot of slack for using this perk, despite running Decisive Strike, Adrenaline & other top tier survivor perks which could arguably be even more frustrating to play against. In fact, the survivor equivalent to NOED is ''Adrenaline'', which has no counter-play available to every killer, yet NOED does!
I often use NOED to punish survivors who rush generators and decide to not leave once the gates are open and want to be cheeky & annoying. Many people call NOED a perk which is for ''bad killers''. However, they ignore the fact that the correspondent killer is playing with 3 perks for the rest of the game and may not even have the chance to use it if the Survivors cleanse totems.
To me, people seem to dislike ''No One Escapes Death'' due to its power punishing gen rushing, along with any decision to stay in the end game.
Thoughts?
Comments
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Survivors hate having to do anything other than bully killers and hold M1 on gens. Doing totems is unfathomable to them.
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The meta is very do gens heavy which means totems tend to get ignored.
Also it's a lot easier to hate on a perk or the person using a perk than to admit that you made a mistake in not cleansing totems
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you typically can't rely on teammates to do totems for the perk to not get activated
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I play both killer and survivor and the only time I hate NOED is when I dominated in a game and the killer gets me at the end because of the perk and not necessarily skill. I have gone whole games not getting hooked and then at the end was just unlucky enough to be spotted and got downed in one hit (especially since you don't know they have NOED until they hit someone) which feels incredibly unfair. Now, if the killer has been kicking my ass the whole game then NOED makes no difference to me.
I use NOED on killers that I know I do worse at and have gotten many kills with it. Some I know I didn't deserve but others I did.
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Yes, let's punish survivors for doing their objective and buffing the killer for failing theirs! Epic! :)
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I agree with most of what you say except adrenaline being the equivalent of NoED.
They are not similar at all, for NoED you can just sit there doing nothing and you will get it at the end, for adrenaline you have to fix 5 gens to get it, and is just a one time use, with NoEd you can down all 4 survivor.
But for the rest of your post we are on the same page.
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On paper, i actually really like it as either side.
It feels like a boss from Dark Souls games going into a new phase, which usually means things like more defense, new attacks, more damage, etc.
So to me as Survivor, it makes me think that i'm doing really well and the game just turned it up a notch.
I actually dislike lategame Perks in general because it's very short in comparison, but again, on paper i like it, and more than just on paper as Survivor.
Also, some bosses in those games, you can skip the 2nd phase entirely.
It differs with pretty much each boss and not all can be skipped, but it's possible.
I relate that to cleansing all Totems before lategame, or cleansing it before they can use the Exposed bonus.
It feels rewarding.
I can see why others dislike it though, my way of thinking is more singleplayer-like.
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If you are in a lobby as a solo surv, it is almost guaranteed because you cannot coordinate how many totems are left. So that means you have to search for every single hidden totem and make sure they're broken.
Also, it awards killers who couldn't get it done during the actual match. A speed boost and insta-down is literally what you would give to someone struggling.
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Shoddy logic there ygnea. The Killers have not failed until the survivors have successfully escaped. Powering gens is only one part of the escape process. Therefore, it doesn't buff killers for failing.
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For a lot of very very vocal survivor mains, spamming noise notifications, flashlight clicking, and sandbagging the killer to try and get their DS to work so they can continue flashlight clicking is far more important than doing totems.
Thats why they don't like it.
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It is the surprise factor that can make it feel cheap.
As a survivor one easily gets used to being able to take a hit while healthy without it being that big of a deal.
Any instadown out of nowhere messes up the players predictions and expectations of what's going to happen and their gameplan is shut down.
Also there realistically isn't too much a killer can do once the gates are powered. So it is easy to feel victorious once all gens are done even though the game isn't over yet.The feeling of having the upper hand is turned around once NOED comes into play as everything becomes more risky.
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Survivors always have an excuse when they lose. Most of them are toxic anyway, so NOED is just a green light for them to impose their toxic attitude on you after the match. Especially SWF groups. If they can’t bully you in the match they’ll try to bully you in the chat. And if they’re not whining about NOED, they’re whining about some other perk or addon. Or they’ll redefine the meaning of camping/tunneling to whatever suits their mistakes best. That’s why I don’t tailor my perks for them. I’ll use whatever I want. If they don’t like it, too bad.
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All the circlejerking is hilarious.
On subject - killer gotta go what they gotta do. But it could be nice if they would think they same about survivors doing what they have to do too, like using the perks available for them as well..
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Laughs in Small Game, Detectives Hunch, Maps, and basic map knowledge
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As Solo Sur, I always chat "one tbag for each totems you destroyed"
At least you will get an estimate number.
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But that's exactly what makes it great - it punishes people for not thinking ahead or being prepared to adapt their playstyle to take different possible scenarios into account.
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I would definitely argue that "the actual match" still includes the EGC. It's not over when the gens are repaired, otherwise the game would end at that point instead of after all survivors are either dead or escaped (or killer DC's). The point of picking perks is to pick ones that will help you get the job done at any point, and NOED helps some with that. Killers generally don't patrol dull totems so it's not like it's unsafe to cleanse them 9/10 times, plus it's a super easy extra 1,000 bp's. Yeah it's easy to feel a victory after all the gens are popped but the game's still not over, it's just shifting objectives that you still have to try to survive while completing. NOED just makes it harder for the survivors just like survivor perks make it harder for the killer.
I generally play survivor more than killer, and yeah it sucks to get hit with NOED, but it's just part of the game, so
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Same old, same old in this thread.
Adrenaline rewards the Survivors for completing their objective. NOED rewards the Killer for failing to do theirs. And how is 'Just knock out all the totems' any more "counterplay" than 'Don't let the Survivors complete 5 gens'?
Totems aren't a 'secondary objective. Beyond hexes, the only reason to ever do them is to avoid NOED, where missing a single one means you wasted your time. But GL knocking them all out when solo survivors have no way of knowing if all the totems are gone except by personally checking for all five, wasting so much time in the process that they would have been better off ignoring it completely.
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As a killer, I just went from a lazy 0K to a 4K due to NoED.
I think it's a fine enough perk. I think also, it's a bit of a crutch that rewards what is sometimes a bad killer (I wasn't playing well).
It it worked for (40/60/80) seconds after first hit, I think it'd be closer to balanced. Or something.
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Adrenaline and keys/hatch mechanics would like to have a word with you
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Personally, I dislike NOED for the number of times I've cleansed four dull totems in a match only to die to NOED after the last gen pops. Bonus points if it's my first hook or I'm the only survivor to die.
I understand why NOED exists. As long as Adrenaline is in the game, NOED is needed to counter it. NOED punishes rushing through gens and ignoring totems. NOED makes the killer dangerous during what's normally their weakest moment in the game. But that doesn't mean I have to like NOED.
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Sure, not saying it's a bad thing, just throwing in my thoughts on why I think survivor dislike it so much, which was the question at hand.
I personally don't mind NOED much, however stacking slowdown perks and NOED on top tier killers does make things a little too opressive for my tastes though.
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Yeah, don't worry, I could tell you weren't actually advocating against NOED. Think of my comment as just making a speculative addition to yours for the benefit of others who may be reading!
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I dont use it but truthfully I dislike seeing it on killers where it's not needed.
Like billy,mm,ect...its a waist.
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I don't think either side particularly likes Noed. As a survivor it always feels cheap that you can not go down all game only to die to Noed. I know you can counter it by cleansing totems. But it can hard to do if only you are doing it.
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I play both and hate that perk; it rewards failure so hard that it's disgusting tbh. it would be good enough with the speed boost alone - it makes no sense to give both benefits to the killer in a single perk slot, in all honesty, just as I wouldn't expect MoM to both give an endurance hit AND adrenaline, for example.
9 times out of 10 where I see Noed are on supoer strong killers that would never need the perk in a million years, and it's really depressing to see.
That and I'm not even sure that if I were to use it, it would ever even proc as I always seem to find survivors on duil totems when I play killer (yet I'm always the only one on my team to touch them in survivor games lmao)
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It can feel like a crutch or feel cheap. If the killer does poorly, they can typically hope on NOED to give them a kill. In many situations, you wouldn't have time to go totem hunting. Once you get down to two people, it's a hatch game. At that point, you can attempt to rush out gens, but it's likely just a game of who gets caught first. Some totems are very well hidden, too, and people have the habit of breaking the easy to find ones, leaving NOED to spawn on a hard to find one.
Additionally, you don't control what you team does. Even if you break 4 totems, someone could easily leave a totem and that person could easily be the one to escape. It doesn't matter if everyone was alive before hand and just happened to be near to each other.
The only time when I have an issue with it is when it helps the killer camp (camps 1, downs the next with NOED) or helps bad killers leak into red ranks. It isn't fun to have the killer chasing one person the entire 5 gens 'cause they figure NOED will help them after gens are done. And you try to get a totem where someone is looping. It's hard to say the least.
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As mostly a survivor I don't mind NOED unless I see it on someone like Billy who has a one hit down anyway. Then again I do totems in my solo games. There has been many times when I deprived the killer of NOED, only on maps like Hawkins I can't always find five totems. Or the killer is really pressuring you don't have time to run around and prioritize gens. I'm all for a totem counter to help know if teammates are doing totems or not.
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Well I like cleansing totems and hate doing gens because it's boring..
Totem = free 1k bps
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It’s because it usually does help bad killers get kills and robs survivors of their 2 hit downs on basic attacks, as most survivors will rely on the speed boost from getting hit to escape or at least distance themselves.
(Going off topic just for a sec bear with me) While it usually rewards bad killers, it can also reward killers that fall victim to absolute ass maps. People can try to one side arguments on gen rushing all they like but in actuality it can be broken for both sides. If survivors get a crappy map with crappy pallets and crappy gen locations, then they don’t get enough gens done and the Killer can snowball and that screws the survs’ chances of winning. If Survs get a good large map with infinities and amazing pallets and gen locations then they can get every gen done before anyone dies which sets up a fat depip for the Killer. The former is why many survivors gen rush, they don’t ever know how the game will go and want to make sure they can win so they want to complete their objective ASAP.
(Back to the actual topic) But that being said, the survivors kinda do get what they deserve as they decided not to cleanse totems. But THAT being said, totems are not a secondary objective and it’s kinda stupid that people refer to them as such. You do not have to cleanse totems to be able to escape, while doing gens is a must if you want to win. However cleaning totems sure does increase your chances at escaping depending on the hex perks the Killer has, especially if they have NOED.
And all of this being said: NOED or any other Hex perk is never an issue for me because I use Small Game every game and destroy every totem in about 3 minutes, Ruin and all.
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Survivors just want something to complain about. Can't tell you how many games I had all four injured, jumped to healthy bevause of adrenaline. Can't tell you how many times I downed someone only for then to sprint away with adrenaline. Is it fun for a killer? ######### no. Is insta Downing a healthy survivor , fun for them? No. But that's dbd
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A crazy idea a streamer mentioned - either add more perks that activate at certain times like NoeD or make it baseline for all killers so it really is a secondary objective.
Some sort of counter to show how many totems were done would be needed though, maybe attached to Small Game.
Cleansing wouldn’t even be necessary to escape but you would actually be in danger once the gates are powered unlike currently.
It sounds crazy at first but I really like the idea and it would certainly help with gens being done in less than 4/5 minutes.
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or just do the second objective and not be a daft [BAD WORD]
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For me, it's the sheer lack of warning that NoED brings and makes it feel cheap.
Do I run it? No. Should I? Possibly on Pig.
So many other "Exposure" perks and abilities give you a warning EXCEPT for NoED and Devour Hope. Until you get hit. And THAT is the problem that I have with those perks.
And don't give me the "ThEy'Re OnLy HeX pErKs" line because Haunted Ground is too.
There have also been games where I've found zero totems throughout the game, so hunting totems isn't always an option either.
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Adrenaline is a reward for doing your objective, just like devour hope or other perks are. Who said I'm for keys? This isn't even about hatch. Nice argument bro.
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Ah yes, the second objective that does nothing for you. The only way it can come in handy is to prevent noed, and guess what that's not even a 100% chance! Have fun looking for totems and cleansing them to prevent a perk that might not even be there. :)
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well first off, you get 1k boldness points for each totem, also if you actually pay attention you can learn totem spawn location which can help with finding ruin or devour. so just try to get good at the game and not cry to the dev's for not trying :)
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If all gens pop and you still need a crutch like noed to help you win, you've lost the game. Sorry not sorry.
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"Just get good at the game" - a noed user 2019.
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i run NOED for 3 reasons.
1) to piss off toxic survivors
2) because i get gen rushed almost everygame
3) i'm purple rank and get rank 2 survivors.
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""Just get good at the game" - a noed user 2019." - A survivor main that complains about 5 little bone totems.
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Well my thoughts are that noed is fine the way it is. Actually it is quite the useless perk, why? Well the perk takes a slot and only comes active at the end of the match.
When do you have all survivors grouped up? Not that much thus when you hit one everybody knows and will be looking for it, cleanse, 99 the door and get out. The killer played a harder match with only 3 perks. Cleansing dull totems is not worth to counter NOED as the time spend cleansing is much better used on gens.
There is no reason to be salty about it or give somebody slack for using a perk, I don't care one bit how other people feel when running builds/perks.
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Ah yes, just because I think noed is an unfair and crutch perk I'm automatically a survivor main. I def don't have almost 2k hours playing almost nothing but killer. Hurr durr survivors, how dare they think stuff is unfair!
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So "punish survivors who rush generators" means survivors who do the objective of the game? I don't mind NOED. Run it all you want, killer mains. I'll be Small Gaming my way to freedom.
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listen to yourself, you sound like a 14 year old. and NOED is not unfair. if anything it's worse than adrenaline. because after the gates are powered adrenaline will allways activtate. But if the survivors get all the totems NOED won't activate. How about we make survivor totems for adrenaline, ds & dead hard. Then let's complain again :)
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And here you are, whining...
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Oh god he complains about exhaustion perks too.
Lets just say the legion avatar is not at all surprising.
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although i agree op is whining.. i have to agree with him. I was playing trapper and all 4 (swf btw) complained about me using both ultra rare addons.... meanwhile 2 toolbox's, a key and a flashlight.
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Don't read chat.
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