These stats finally show that survivors have been right.
A 50% kill rate would be balanced. Meaning half your games are 4ks, half are 0k. Or, 2ks per game. Instead not a single killer is at 50%. All are above 60. And the highest, most complained about killers are in the 75% range. Is this not crystal clear now why survivors complain about OP killers? And now imagine if we had detail that showed 4 solos vs 4 man swfs. I’d reckon it looks even worse for solos. Probably 80-85% or worse. This game is heavily skewed toward killers.
75%!! This is a full 25% higher than it should be. And people wonder why survivors like to derank... it’s because the game is more balanced when higher level survivors play lower level killers. Thanks for releasing these stats Behaviour. I’m vindicated.
Comments
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Oh boy, here we go again.
@GrootDude you've been summoned
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lmao
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Play killer at red ranks and see how easy that is to achieve. Then come back and whinge some more.
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I play Survivor and Killer, do you? This game is geared towards Survivors, that is why D-Strike was invented and even after the change remains powerful.
I can run a Killer around for 5 Gens, I've done it to a Hillbilly and a Spirit and her nerf hasn't come out yet. I made Legion my ######### several times and I'm talking about the OG Legion on release, I was on the PS4 so that did help. As a Survivor I can make my friend completely immune to damage and make the Killer blinded at the same time then hop into a locker silently then stun the Killer before they can she my friend, then my entire body blocks and takes hits so everyone can run out of the Exit. Not me personally but a Survivor who understands how the game works can do those things, the De-Pip Squad proved this several times and terrifies every Killer to this day.
Clown can throw bottles that make you slow, Trapper can waste the ENTIRE GAME setting up 4-5 traps, Billy has the simplest mind game when it comes to pallets and that it is the only reason I don't like facing him and Demogorgon as well.
Survivors have the advantage and those statistics don't prove anything, you can die in all of your matches and STILL be a damn god against the Killer, you can die and 2 pip. The Killer can kill the entire team and get a de-pip.
Post edited by HatCreature on55 -
It’s more complicated than you think and I main survivor. It can be summarised as “both sides are overpowered” but that only leads to further confusion.
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Sorry but there are too many things not accounted for in the statistics that make the statistics meaningless.
How many of the games had at least 1 DC?
Are DC's counted as a kill?
Also, tome challenges are a factor (focusing on the challenge, not escaping or suciding on first hook after completing the challenge).
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Dont forget EGC. Turns a lot of previous 3k's into 4k's without balance changes. That alone could explain the increase in killrate. I dont feel anything has changed balancewise.
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The stats largely don't show much. Killer is gruelling to stay in red ranks, so the people that are there are really excellent as killer. Meanwhile as survivor you can pick your nose through half the matches and wind up in red ranks somehow, so of course people die there against killers with proper loadouts and time management.
Honestly, I'd say that a value anywhere between 25% and 75% is much of a muchness anyway. Plus or minus one kill per match is largely just luck, random circumstance, or misplays by survivors refusing to leave someone behind. There's also the fact that slugging for a 4k, or just finding the hatch before killing survivor number 3 is a very simple practice which means most regular games which would otherwise be a 3k are very simple to push into 4k without actually performing any 'better.'
On the other hand, a match where nobody dies is much more likely to turn into a 1k because camping the only person you get is an option that results in a death.
Point is, there's lots of situations that bump the end result into the killer's favour number-wise without actually reflecting their performance or the enjoyment of anyone in the game.
TL;DR: The stats are basically only good for showing links between percentage play vs comparative performance, not an overall assessment of the game's balance.
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A few questions if I may.
What rank do you play survivor at?
What rank are you playing at when you dab so hard on killers?
As killer, have you ever destroyed a team of survivors before they get a single gen done?
As survivor, do you survive every game?
As survivor, do you go every game without taking a single hit or down?
I watch a few streamers who have poured thousands of hours into the game that don't have the same success to which you seem to be claiming. One last question.
Do you believe your anecdotal evidence should outweigh the statistics that account for the experience of the playerbase as a whole?
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Math isn't your thing so this song is made for you.
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It really depends on the skill level, the perk set, the addons, whether the killer tunnels/camps, and whether there is a mori or survivor items in play. Some rounds can feel killer sided. Some feel survivor sided.
With the rank system being broken (putting me in ranks I shouldn't be in) and I don't wanna be forced to throw away a perk I like for a perk whose skill check I can barely ever hit (aka DS), it normally feels killer sided to me. I'm sure those who actually deserve to be in these ranks and actually like the meta perks, it feels the opposite considering they do exceptionally well.
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DCs are not counted as kills. Peanits said this in a different thread.
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Games with DCs are discarded for statistics like this, which would probably weigh the scales a bit further toward killer honestly. The tome thing can go both ways. I spent a whole game as hag at badham ignoring survivors and scaring birds.
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The first thing they teach you at whatever statistic class is that statistics can’t be used in a cause-consequence logic.
also we all know game is survivor sided, cmon.
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Sadly every 2k is a blackpip. And 67% is still in the limit of a 2k.
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I want to know the survival rate of the god tier survivors.
Post edited by Mister_Holdout on1 -
Tiny misunderstanding I guess I needed to clarify in my comment.
Most of the things in my comment are things that Survivors can do, not what I have done personally, except for the Hillbilly and the Legion part that I have done. I was trying to convey how much power a skilled Survivor has if they know what they are capable of with what this game provides. The scenario with the hook and the locker is a valid scenario that can happen and has basically almost happened within what I said minus the locker part and the blind as I am crap with flashlights. Looking back at my comment I can see how it looks like I was saying I was that skilled instead of what I was actually trying to say; I'll have to edit it but my point in it is still valid. Solo Survivors can be just as amazing as SWF if they understand how the game works, if you do not understand the fundamentals of loops, distance, speed, abilities, etc you will lose every time because you aren't paying attention. But if you understand those things you can loop for 5 gens, you can deny the Killer every hook and any kill, the De-Pip Squad proved that not me; if you don't know who that is then look it up on Youtube.
As far as your questions though my highest Survivor Rank has been 4 because at 5 I get the worst teams who are just selfish and get me killed. As a Killer I have gotten games where I killed everyone before 1 Gen was done and it was purely because the Survivors were brain dead Altrusitic idiots who thought they were good; their cockiness got them killed basically. I do not Survive every game no, I die most games but that's because I care more about getting my team out than myself and sometimes I'm an idiot; risky plays basically. Very rarely do I escape without getting hit, that only happens if the Killer is either very bad or they got Gen rushed to hell because of various reasons.
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I spent a game scaring birds and trying to catch my own vomit in my mouth as the plague.
I also cleansed all the totems and went hunting the killer.
That's why the stats, while interesting, don't really prove anything to me on the subject of balance.
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Obviously you dont play red rank killer.. it takes a 3k to pip at red ranks.. it's so much easier to pip as survivor I can die every game and pip..
So that means only the good killers get to red rank because that's what it takes... meanwhile every potato can play survivor to rank 1
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Survivor skill is at an all time low is the case really. Go play a random queue in red ranks with Bond and the staggering amount of casual mistakes is mind blowing.
Killers are improving skill wise but Survivors are declining once their clutches got Nerfed. Were they even skilled in the first place? Oh well.
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Honestly, i do not trust to this "stats".
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The depip squad experiment was over a year ago(getting close to 2), and that was the very last video. Do you know how many survivor nerfs have come since then?
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Right, ultimately you're theory crafting. Which is fine survivors do have a lot of strength, but so do killers. Most players aren't Monto, or Puppers, or Noob3, and just aren't going to be able to pull off near perfect play like that. Going into a game as killer expecting all survivors to have that kind of skill, or balancing the game around "professional DBD players" would be a huge mistake.
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Be careful, the handful of killer mains who can't seem to get 2k might come for you.
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The only thing these stats show is that most Survivors play like potatoes, that's it.
Every single Killer has above 60% kill rate even though some of them are actually hot garbage.
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Then why is it that at red ranks, the kill rate goes up? Presumably these are some of the best survivors in the game? Maybe survivor pipping is too lenient?
To be fair both sides depend on strong perks to succeed. I don't see a lot of off meta killer builds in the higher ranks either.
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So you think if they came back they couldn't do it again? Maybe we should ask them nicely and see what happens.
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Well from what I've heard the Devs goal is to balance solo players to the level of SWF players, I personally don't know how I feel about that, I don't. But it is very evident that they intentionally design weak Killers and balance them towards solo players and they have said once the solo is up to SWF level then the Killers can be buffed.
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Even if we had 75 % across all killers in red ranks , mains would still ######### cause it's not ez 4k every game
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Feel free to correct me but:
Each survivor equals 25% of all survivors per game. Therefore any killer with a kill rate "below 75%" averages 2 kills per game which is exactly what the devs are aiming for... Right?
EDIT: That also explains what the devs meant when they said Spirit was overperforming. She averages 75% / 3 out of 4 survivors.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
2016 and 2017 would like to disagree on your post
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I think it's wise, the only way to truly balance the game is to make the survivor experience consistent, otherwise the balance point for killers would be much too strong against solos, or much too weak against swf.
To be fair even the killers who are considered the weakest are at or around 60% kill rate. Case in point if you'll allow me my own anecdotal evidence; I was playing solo on a team of rank 4-5 players who got destroyed by a leatherface, I only got out on a hatch play.
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I must confess it was very odd to see the stats, from what I understand the stats are not 100% accurate and don't account for several variables but yeah it was odd to look at. I've gone done to weak Killers loads of times and it was always because I played badly or my team played bad, the game is a trail of dominoes and if you flick the right one it will keep falling towards a conclusion you can't avoid.
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So many excuses from killers.
I play Spirit a lot, and 4k has been so common that I frequently mistake anything less than 4k to be a loss for me. I'd imagine that's what a lot of killers here experience too.
75% kill rate sounds about right and it matches my experiences as Spirit. In fact I have been doing the "4k, 0 chase" challenge just to keep the game interesting and make things more... challenging.
That kind of is a sign that killers are too strong right now.
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Again it only shows that first post does not understand how this game works (also BHVR doesnt seem to understand its own PiP System if it rates killer by kills).
Killrate only shows Kills (so you can facecamp a hook all game and get another kill with noed and suddenly you did "fine" but you deranked cuz the PiP System gives you points for how long you can hold gens / how fast you chase / how many hooks you got kills do not matter this much if they die on first hook etc...
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A list of factors that the stats provided do not show or take into account:
- Perks used
- Add-ons used
- Whether the Killer piped or not
- Whether there was a SWF group present or not
- Whether the Hag prefers Cheddar or Fondue
- What map the match was being played on
- How familiar the player is with a particular Killer
- What items the Survivors have taken
- Does Dwight like pineapple on his pizza
- What events are currently running
- And many more
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Very true, to be clear I don't think 60% is an unreasonable kill rate. I think expecting perfect 50/50 win loss rate in an asymm is a bit unrealistic. I don't think the kill rate ceiling should extend as far beyond that as it seems to now though.
I'm mostly worried that the game was so survivor biased for so long that many have become blind to the possibility that killers have come into their own and perhaps have gone a bit too far in specific cases.
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I don't think we've reached that point yet, sure Spirit was and probably still is an incredibly designed Killer and I think the no collision while Phasing was a great choice and should have been in from the beginning. But I don't think we're at the point we could be getting strong Killers by accident with Demogorgon's perks and Legion's inconsistent and deaf changes. Maybe The Oni is the start of that? I don't know, I'm probably just so annoyed by the whole situation I need to take a step back and have another break.
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Stop looking at the numbers, if i had a penny each time i turned 1k or 2k in 4k because they tried to get everyone out, pff bill gates would be poor compared to me.
Spirit was not overperforming, killing yourself on hook vs her and constant refusing to play the game is what caused her nerfs not the actual killer.
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I don't like how Behavior merged the statistics from all the platforms into one mess. I'd have loved to see it separated by platform instead. Would have been better. Oh well. Same as last time.
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High rank Killers are generally more skilled than high rank Survivors. It's a lot easier to rank up as Survivor and you can easily get boosted to red ranks while being an absolute potato at the game. High rank Killers don't just end up in high rank, they need the skill to reach that rank.
High rank Survivor =/= High skill Survivor
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im just surprised Spirit only has an 11% pick rate at red ranks with all the ppl saying thats ALL they see.
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All of the Killers had a 2K/2E average.
The only one that was close was Freddy with 74%.
Remember, 25% is 1K
75% is a 3K
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I play both sides equally. And the thing is i love stats like these but devs should have not only put those alone. They should have shown survivor stats aswell showing how many times a survivor derank , 0 pip , 1 pip and 2 pip.
Because the killer managed to kill 3 people doesn't mean he will not derank, while the killed survivors will probably rank up. This is because ranking up as survivor is so easy that the killer rate is so high as survivors who should be rank 10 are rank 3 and face experienced killers who know how to play their characters.
Those stats are not enough to say that killers are the power side. Also it's kinda dumb that they we don't know if those stats are addonless or not as anyone can equip the strongest addon and by so make the killer rate higher while some killer struggles without addons ( Trapper is really hard to play without addon since you take the first 3 gens to place traps while you can 4K with an addonless Freddy pretty easily )
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They don't aim for 50%, that would be a ridiculously small window.
They aim for 2 dead, 2 escaped.
2/2 means anywhere between 75% & 49%...
- 0-24% = 0 dead.
- 25-49% = 1 dead.
- 50-74% = 2 dead.
- 75-99% = 3 dead.
- 100% = All dead.
Once in that zone, it doesn't matter who's better, they reached the average and the devs will then say that "some Killers will perform better than others", which is only natural.
So anyone going over or below that line, they will probably face some big changes at some point, while anyone within the zone will...well, they'll see changes too probably, cause of new content and stuff, but they'll try to keep them there.
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Killers should be feared, not balanced. I think 75% kill rate is the minimum! Anything below that should be buffed
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There's way too many variables to draw these types of conclusions from the stats. The Ranking system imbalances between killer and survivors alone is enough to show that.
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The escape rates are so low because noob survivors still learning it or friends "just chilling and having fun" are dragging down the rates.
This btw mirrors nurse's situation. Except nurse gets slightly adjusted.
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Sigh...people see broad stats and jump to conclusions....
1: This "data" does not break down builds/moris/DC/3 or 2 or 1 man games due to DC/hook suicide, all of which can skew this data.
2: A 50% kill ratio is not balanced because the emblem system punishes you for not getting a 4k in high ranks. Kill ratio is not a means to balance this game.
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The stats aren't telling the full truth. You forgot how easy it is to rank up as survivor. Red ranks is absolutly overfilled with potatoes who belong in green ranks, if not yellow ranks. And pipping as killer is more difficult. It's just obvious that the killrate is very high since these potatoes are dying left and right but still pip or at least safety pip (aka black pip)
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