Please help with camping and tunneling...
I have been playing for a while today (3 to 4 hours) and almost exclusively I have played campers and tunnelers. Leatherfaces that stand in front of a hooked survivor with the chainsaw running, ghost faces staring at hooks from behind and exposing me when I attempt a rescue, Freddy snaring every entrance to a hooked survivor and then staying within 30 feet or so. Then, just walking past the person who actually gets a rescue and chasing down the recently unhooked. I am not asking to change the core gameplay, but the fact that ots been so constant has made me quit the game once today already. I don't want to quit for good because of something as dumb as this..
Comments
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I must live in a weird bubble... I don't see many campers. Every once in a while sure, but not with the frequency people seem to find them.
What rank are you at?
Against freddy, wake up first, then go for the save.
In general, do gens to pressure the killer to leave.
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I am a level 6. So not pushing red yet, but close. I guess just sacrificing people 1 by 1 is an option, but it makes the game really not fun. I just played a huntress who didn't camp and she 4k'd us. I haven't been happier playing all day.
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No campers ever leave even when gens are getting done. They generally still get a second hook by the time that survivor dies as well. And I've been hovering between red and purple.
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It's been about 2 months since I've played against a camper. Tunneling doesn't exist.
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I encountered over 120 within a 16 hour period, it cause me to derank to rank 15 until I changed my build.
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Not sorry.
They're legit strategies. I hate to say it, but the best counter is to not get caught.
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gen rushing doesnt exist either :)
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Almost as annoying as the people who say “git gud.”
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Tell that to all the newbie survivors that you run off from the game with your "legit strategy".
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Exactly, I played against a Demo today that just sat on some poor rank 16 dude. I know the strategy is to do gens in this time, but I can see why it discourages new players.
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That is correct.
I see it as both sides learning to be efficient.
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I understand your frustrations over "git gud", however my statement isn't technically wrong.
That's their fault, not mine, for a couple reasons.
- I don't differentiate between new players and veterans. I play the same way.
- All new players should come into the game and expect to lose. Maybe not every time, but I'm just one of probably 5-10 killers they'll face that day alone.
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And all the newbie killers that face depip swf squads! GG
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You had some bad matches, just move on or start equipping helpful perks. If it is that upsetting to you, don't play.
Camping and tunneling are part of the killer's toolbox of how to go about killing. Saying that they are an issue is the same as saying stuns and gen rushing are a problem. Sounds silly right?
Killers that strictly camp, should loose the game. Every single time... It is the worst strategy. If they don't loose it is because survivors didn't capitalize on the time and instead fell for the tactic.
You do know killers bait survivors into this right? Then they fall for it and blame their poor gameplay on the killer... Hm.
As for 'new people leaving the game because unfun camping and killing', then this game isn't for them. Like all multi player games there are going to be mechanics people don't like... and if they don't like them then don't play!
Maybe asymmetrical games are not your thing?
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A depip squad will be in red or purple ranks.. At most they will face purple or green rank killers.
Expecting to lose is one thing. Camping is the equivalent of sitting at someone's spawn point and shooting them in the head countless times in an old school shooter before they started making protections against it.
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Living in a fairy tale if you think depip squads only face purple or green.
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It's a symptom of overly safe loops and game speed.
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The point is for people to learn their own protections, such as not getting caught, borrowed time, kindred, DS, stealth, SWF, etc.
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The thing is camping is literally griefing. You see it all the time. A killer gets mad he's not doing well or a survivor tbags him or loops him for too long, then he camps them. It doesn't matter what BHVR defines griefing as, because griefing has its own definition. BHVR might not punish it, but it's griefing.
As for survivors learning their "protections", getting caught is inevitable. There are things put in place to where if a killer cannot do well enough they are still able to catch a survivor. As for the others, people complained about the Kindred buff saying it was OP, and they also complain about DS and BT endlessly. It won't be long before they become a "problem".
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It's not griefing. Depending on what killer I play, I will intentionally go into a game with a camping build.
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Hot take: the killers existence is griefing.
Everything the killer does is to stop the survivors from succeeding at their goal. They can camp, they can tunnel, they can mori. They can do whatever they want to get the job done.
Same goes for the survivors. They can stun, loop, body block, etc. They can do whatever they want to survive.
What is fun/rewarding for one side, is at the detriment to other. Shocking!
But hey, I guess all those killers are just out their griefing making everyone's game experience miserable. What a bunch of jerks huh?
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Camping isn't griefing. That's a fact.
As for the perks, using them more doesn't make them any stronger. So if they aren't balancing the perks now, then it's not likely they'll be changed in the future. The perks I mentioned have been changed at least once anyway.
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Sounds like a lot of fun.
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Unfortunately we'll have to deal with people's lack of skill. You just can't change people's nature, and to my fellow survivor mains who ask for punishments or anything of the sort, it'll only make things worse. The most we can do is to NOT be toxic towards killers. But even so, killers will still tunnel and camp, despite going against survivors that aren't Ochido wannabes. That's the sad reality of an asymmetrical game, skill isn't required to win, and this goes for both survivors and killers.
Survivors: M1 and repeat. No skill involved. The only "skill" they have is determined by their looping/juking abilities. Altruistic actions are mainly based on common sense.
Killers: M1, Hook, and stand still. No skill (much less strategy) is involved. That and/or M1, Hook, stand still, survivor gets rescued, immediately M1, Hook, and repeat, meanwhile ruin has already been popped and 3 gens have been completed.
The ideal match for survivors and killers is where survivors don't tbag and bully, the killer doesn't tunnel or camp yet rather applies pressure to gens and healing (which most killers lack the ability to do so), and one side gets outsmarted and the other wins.
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Yep it's almost as fun as rushing gens and playing a 3 minute match
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I see campers and tunneled once in a while. More recently I've been seeing opportunistic killers taking advantage of survivors making bad saves or "hook farming" probably related to rift challenges
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You can tell a lot of people here don't play survivor because camping and tunneling is rampant at all ranks.
The best advice I can give you is to become really good at looping. If you can get the killer's attention and run them around a while, you will put your team in a much better spot.
Other than that, use DS and BT unapologetically. If killers want to camp/tunnel at least make them pay for it. Unbreakable is also very good.
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It's not like Survivors purposely do that, unless they bring 4 toolboxes, and BNP's. You're purposely creating a boring camping build, and isn't the same as that. I hate gen rush, but it's not like the Survivors are purposely trying to make it unfun; they're doing their objective. It's the same thing when Survivors get mad at Killers for "tunneling", when they're just trying to get a kill, and they happen to find you next.
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You're deliberately making other players' game experience miserable with the intention of doing so. It's griefing. It's just "legalized" griefing because BHVR doesn't want to let go of it.
You're holding the game hostage for that one player who is on the hook. Saying it's anything else is lying to yourself.
That is only true if the killer isn't intentionally making the game miserable for every survivor by playing like an #########. You can play normally and it can be fairly fun for everyone. Or you can camp and tunnel because all you care about are survivor tears. One is griefing, the other isn't. Nothing survivors do directly force the killer into a hostage situation where he just had to sit there and die on one hook despite being given 3 in a normal game. The worst they can do is move their model up and down.
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If everyone just did gens and escaped the majority of these killers would get bored of 1 kill games and stop camping, Unfortunately far too many survivors are happy to camp the camping killer and do nothing, so many times I've been on the hook watching all three survivors crouched in corners around me waiting the full duration of the hook.
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"Holding the game hostage" is defined as intentionally creating a scenario where one or more survivors can neither escape nor die, thus forcing them to either disconnect or wait for you to let them go. For example, you can accomplish this by trapping a survivor in a corner, bodyblocking them, and never hitting them. Thus, they have no choice but to disconnect if they want the match to end. And that's a reportable offense.
Survivors can also take the game hostage, to some extent, by intentionally hiding in the outskirts of the map, never doing gens, and never getting into any chases. Thus, if the Killer can't find them, the killer has no choice but to disconnect if they want the match to end. Before the addition of the EGC, survivors could also take the game hostage by hiding after the exit gates were opened.
When you camp somebody, they always have the option to die, and after 120 seconds, they will die no matter what. Therefore, you're not taking the game hostage for anyone.
It sounds like you don't play killer much. If you "play nice" (i.e. Follow the survivors' arbitrary rules on what you are and aren't allowed to do), you're not going to do well. If every time you get a hook, you immediately leave the hook and run off to a distant corner of the map (Even if you see a survivor and/or scratch marks), you're throwing the match. Patrolling the hook, heading back to the hook after you receive an unhook notification, and downing the unhooked survivor if there isn't a better option available, are all legitimate strategies, which often prove necessary to win against competent survivors.
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Camping and tunnelling, assuming solo Q, are dealt with with a mixture of (in order of priority):
1) Gen pressure
2) Meta perks (BT, DS, etc.)
3) Game-sense
Yes, meta perks before game-sense, that's the sad truth of the balance right now.
Gen pressure is self-explanatory, it's the best way to punish stubborn killers. If you lose gen pressure, then even successful daring rescue attempts will be in vain when you're all on death hook with 4 gens to go. Game-sense is necessary to know when to go for a rescue and when to do something else. If you know the killer is camping, try to lure them away. If they're not interested, then don't get stubborn and do something else productive with your time. At the end of the day, if a killer wants that person or one person out of the game, they very often can accomplish that and there's little a survivor can do, unless they can get and give second chances, that's why meta perks are must in these situations and game-sense is no substitute.
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I respect that too you know. But with campers well the second to last survivor should just keep struggling till that last unfortunate tries to rescue you to and get insta downed or just signal you that he got the hatch while you have a staring contest with the killer
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We aren't thinking, "I'm going to camp this guy to make him have a bad time!" No. We're thinking, "I'm going to camp because in this scenario it is the MOST EFFICIENT tactic."
I'm not trying to ruin you experience, but that also doesn't mean I'll improve it.
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Holding the game hostage by BHVRs standards is what you described, yes, but BHVRs standards are extremely low. A survivor in a camping situation only has options that lead to them losing outside of someone else saving them or hook trading. The game for them is very much being held hostage. They have no control in that situation and the killer camping them is making sure they never get control back. Saying it's not holding the game hostage because DCing isn't your only option despite being in a situation where you lose no matter what is a very one sided belief.
As for your "survival rules" scenario, surely you aren't ignorant enough to believe that's what survivors think. Most just want a fair game. I do play killer, and I don't camp outside of very few "required" scenarios and even in those scenarios I only proxy camp because they deserve a fair shot. Staying near a hook when a survivor is near it is not camping. Not chasing that survivor in order to protect your hook is.
I tried camping in order to prove what another killer said(that he made it to rank 1 purely camping. He also said he did it literally for the salt when I asked why he did it), but I couldn't do it. It's too scummy of a tactic.
I've had many when I asked why they camped(with no survivors around) and all of them say they like salty comments from them. So I disagree with your statement that people don't go into the game intending to ruin players' experiences.
Also I could sit at someone's spawn point and shoot them in the head over and over the second they spawned because it was the most efficient thing to do to win, does that mean I wouldn't be griefing them because how they feel about it isn't in my thoughts? No. I'm still griefing if I do that. Same with camping.
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Spawn sniping is still a thing in ground war and TDM in the newest Call of Duty. People camp in games. It isn't going to change. The only thing you can change is how you react to it. This community's default reaction always seems to be unintelligible screeching. I feel like a lot of people in the DBD community have never really played a PvP game besides this one so they are emotionally ill-equipped to face a loss. Everyone loses. Everyone has been camped at some point in their gaming career. Either you can move on and learn to deal with it, or play single player games where nobody can hurt your feelings.
Hell, if the other survivors just did gens then the killers who literally face camp wouldn't stay in the game for very long. Since they would only average one kill a game.
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Bringing keys is griefing. Bringing toolboxes is griefing. Oh and insta heals are also griefing. Oh yea and killing a survivor is griefing.
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Literally none of those prevent a killer from playing the game. Instaheals also no longer exist.
Most PVP games prevented this because it's problematic. The player on the recieving end can't play the game.
A killer still has time to get another victim before all gens are done.
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Keys prevent killers from playing the game. Instead of being able to chase survivors and get kills, the game just ends. And by your own logic, killing a survivor is griefing, because they don't get to play anymore.
"Most PvP games prevent camping?" No, they don't. There are countless examples of PvP games where camping is a thing. Team Fortress 2, Overwatch, Call of Duty, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, DotA 2, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, World of Warcraft, Global Agenda, Half-Life: Deathmatch, Unreal Tournament, Quake... the list goes on and on. In any PvP game that allows you to just stay at a fixed position and wait for the enemy to come to you, camping is a thing in some form or another.
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How is camping a thing in League of Legends? You cannot enter the fountain, it is extremely risky to try to kill someone at spawn. Unless you're talking about jingling which is entirely different. I imagine the same goes for all of the other mobas you listed. All of those games I am sure have some sort of protection system in place upon respawning. You cannot prevent them from finishing the game. Random spawns, temp. Invincibility, etc.
Keys do not prevent play. In order for 4 people to get out through the hatch, the game has to be pretty much over. In ALL situations, at least 3 generators have to be finished for more than one to get out through the hatch. Also you know what I am talking about, you're just making snide remarks. If a survivor dies on one hook because a killer camped them out, they had no control over their situation and were unable to play the game once caught. There's no situation where a killer cannot play the game unless it ends. Killers have control over how they can respond to situations throughout the game. Survivors do not have that luxury if a killer decides they don't want them to play after hooking them once, despite normal gameplay meaning to allow them 3 hooks.
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I take it you haven't played League of Legends much. At the end of the game, if your team refuses to surrender, the opposing team will often camp outside of the fountain so you can't leave, and use long-ranged abilities to snipe you while you're in the fountain, or just dive you in the fountain because they can one-shot you before the fountain kills them.
Random spawns and temporary invincibility don't help you if there's a chokepoint on the map that you have to pass through. If somebody camps there and you have to go through there, the only way you can play the game is to kill them before they kill you. Which is why camping is still extremely common in Call of Duty and CS:GO, to this day.
Spawn rooms prevent the enemy team from entering in Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch, but the enemy team can always just camp outside of the spawn rooms and kill anyone who tries to leave.
In order for 3 people to escape through the hatch, only one Survivor needs to die. If the killer has set up a 3-gen at that point, the game is far from over. But if the survivors have a key, the killer can do nothing to respond to it. Even if he finds the hatch first, it doesn't matter. Even if he uses Franklin's or kills the key-holder, the other survivors can just pick it back up.
There are a lot of ways for the Killer to put a survivor out of commission and force them to wait for help, or wait to die. If you can't deal with that, then don't play Survivor.
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The game is already over at that point in League, and you still risk dying, the enemy can still kill you, and you still are risking a comeback by doing it. The only person able to auto attack away from the fountain is Caitlyn and even then she might need a RFC shot to perform that. Either way at that point the game is pretty much over and you'll only kill each person once unless the game was extremely short and respawn times are still short. It's very hard to call that camping and you've already won at that point. Camping in DBD happens extremely early in the game on the killer's first hook. If you like griefing you're apparently welcome to it as BHVR enforces it, but it's still a dick move and there's literally no point in doing it aside from pissing people off.
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Uh, there is a point in camping the hook: To interrupt the other survivors when they go for the save. That way you can get free hits, or get a grab. If the survivors are just sitting next to the hook, in plain view of the killer, waiting for the killer to leave, then the killer has no reason to leave the hook alone.
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Yeah, it just really frustrates me. I play about 75/25 survivor/killer. I have been up to a 3 as survivor abd as low as a 9 on killer. I've never had to camp or tunnel to win. There are times where the guy who gets unhooked is the only guy I can see and catch, but if I ever have the option, I go for the unhooker. I have ran into jerk survivors too so I understand the anger there, so I don't play that way either. I understand the "legit strategy" that people keep saying, what I am saying is can BHVR please look at options to make this not a strategy worthwhile? And if that means some killer buffs to offset it, then so be it. I'd rather play a genuinely strong killer that 4k's me and have fun, than be mad I got targeted and 3 other teammates escaped.
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Lol I remember when I took a break from the game at one point, and when I came back I was reset to rank 18. I played a game, and got absolutely destroyed, but I was able to get one kill.
Found out that it was a SWF squad as 1 person was red ranks, 2 purple ranks, and 1 a rank 19 player. It almost made me want to take another break, I feel sorry for the poor souls who had to faced my ebony mori, and infinite tier 3 myers after that match.
So they technically they exist, you just completely missed that if you have a rank 17-20 player in your SWF you are going to face low rank or new killers and completely crush them.
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It's not camping if another survivor is in the vicinity and you know for a fact that they are. However this is a rare occurrence, most of the time people literally sit there without anyone around.
That used to be a thing but now the killer is only allowed to be one rank color below the highest ranked survivor iirc. That can't happen anymore.
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Body blocking *cough*
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80 seconds to solo a gen
120 seconds to die on first hook
there are 4 survivors
A killer who camps on first hook should be losing 3 gens....
DO THE BLOODY GENS
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There's no benefit to staying in a game like that as a survivor. You BP generation will be low and it will generally be a miserable experience.
If the killer can still put pressure on the map they're score a lot BP.
And the devs wonder why survivors d/c.
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I don't understand what these people are doing or what game they're playing that they get tunneled and camped "every game" I legit do not believe you. On console? Yeah, maybe I believe you.
I didn't play survivor for 6 months and went from brown to red ranks, and I think I got camped once or twice out of countless games, and that was because I was in the basement. I got tunneled a handful of times, sometimes I can't blame the killer, other times it made me angry because I played killer more and I could tell they were just garbage.
Camping and especially tunneling have resulted in a lot of BS perks in the game, to be honest.
That being said I generally let the killer catch me by doing something intentionally dense, both to not make them angry enough to camp or tunnel me, and to also give my teammates some points and pip progress. That's unless I know they will do either of those two things, in which case I'll run them for as long as I can. Maybe it's just because I have a bit of sympathy for killers because I play both sides and understand the reasoning for why people do things.
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