http://dbd.game/killswitch
How Do We Balance The Game?
I Make this as a sort of question along with discussion.
The game is survivor sided, as it has been for a long time but it's gotten alot better from survivor being god mode. But even now survivors have perks that dont even compare to what killer has, the devs seem to be amazing at balancing killer perks, the good ones are strong but have a decent requirement. However, survivor perks have very powerful effects with requirements that are borderline them failing, ds- getting hooked, DH-getting injured. All apply very powerful effects, ds for example when only one person has it it is a guess of how many there are, dh can literally deny a killer of a down if used decently and this isn't very difficult for most.
My point off all of that and I only listed 2 survivor perks, is that what could be changed about these perks or the role itself to be more balanced?
Comments
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I would argue that solo survivors should be buffed to be on par with the team play of survivor friends; this would include call outs for when someone is being chased, when people are working on gens, breaking totems, etc. Then low tier killers get buffed to be on par with at least Freddy. Of course this would take time. If they did this one step at a time, balance would shift wildly and the game would likely be unplayable. But if they release these changes all at once without thorough testing, the same issues arise.
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According to the Devs Stats, the survivor side is balanced almost perfectly if you are in a 4 man SWF.
So logically the game needs big solo survivor buffs like built in kindred and bond and such.
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This is not something you ask the forums.
If this thread gains some traction prepare for a $h!tstorm.
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The problem is you won't get a lot of constructive comments as a lot of people here won't agree with your base premise, "The game is survivor sided" to begin with. I do agree with you though.
Most the top tier survivor perks are just all universally good in almost all scenarios, have very little reasonable drawbacks/counterplay, ask very little of them to work and are game swinging in their effect. This is the polar opposite of killer perks as almost all of them have heavy downsides, requirements/heavily niche and/or counter play.
The solution seems pretty straight forward to me. Add those things to the perks.
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Make the game slower. I'm tired of five minute games as killer and survivor.
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as a survivor main, id be ok if gens were slower... IF the slow down perks got balanced and chases got rebalanced based on gens taking longer. i think then it will be more balanced. but until servers are fixed survivors get hit from literally anywhere so its tough
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I just have to ask. What's the downside to BBQ, Pop Goes the Weasel, Make Your Choice, Dying Light(You could argue the downside is the obsession can heal better, and isn't affected, but the healing better barely comes into play, and not being affected isn't a downside, it's just not an upside), Spirit Fury + Enduring, Franklin's Demise(You can literally ignore a survivor offering with this), Haunted Grounds(I mean it's not perfect, but there's literally no downside to it and it's a free tier 3 Myers on any killer), etc?
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For the first four perks, you have to hook a survivor. It isn't free, you have to work for it. What do you need to do to activate DS? Get unhooked and have 60 seconds of immunity. What about DH? You need to be injured and press E. Spirit Fury requires you to break two pallets, Haunted grounds is more of a mindgame if paired with ruin. In general killer perks require more effort to activate and gain use out of than survivor perks. And when you have 4 survivors that turns down a dark road real quick.
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DS is to allow you time to play the game instead of being tunneled into oblivion. Dead Hard is not even that strong. The best it can do in the best situation is to allow you more time to get to the next loop, but I've used Dead Hard at max distance to reach a pallet and drop it and still been hit through it. Killer MIGHT have had BL 2 or 3, but that just means there's no guarantee for Dead Hard. Most killers expect it as well, so don't miss swings against injured survivors.
Also none of those are DOWN SIDES. You have to hook people, so what? That's what you're supposed to do, you're rewarded for doing your job. Spirit Fury requiring you to break 2 pallets, again, that's something you as killer will do anyways. Where is the down side?
Would you rather a survivor have DS activated every time they pallet stunned the killer so that when they went down you just couldn't pick them up? Or get the ability to Dead Hard, injured or not, every time they blinded the killer?
Overall the only good survivor perks aside from exhaustion ones are bandaid fixes made by the devs to prevent negative killer behavior(DS, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable). If survivors didn't have to bring those pretty much every game in order to even be able to play it, they wouldn't. When I play survivor, I literally cannot take off DS. The minute I do, I get tunneled into oblivion by someone who just wants to play like a jerk. Spine Chill because the ones who do play like jerks are generally GhostFaces or Spirits, Unbreakable(if I had it on my David), would be another I'd probably use a lot, because people slug to avoid the consequences of DS. Being pretty much forced to bring DS every game severely limits the possibility of my build options because almost every non meta perk requires multiple other perks to work along side it. Talk about downsides.
Post edited by Atrushan88 on3 -
The first part of balancing the game is treating it like it's a competitive game and then balancing around the ideal of high level play. Current DBD is balanced like a party game, since the game is split between being competitive and being a party game, it's easier to cash out of casuals.
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BBQ - implemented to add insentive for killers to leave the hook, it doesn't do much other then show you that survivor is somewhere on the other side of the map. It doesn't have a powerful effect other then give points.
Pop - You have to hook a survivor and you have 60 seconds to kick the gen. If any other survivor is spotted during that time you have to abandon the chase to kick the gen and killer can't afford to do that against better survivors. Did you know it takes 20 seconds of work from the gen and animation itself lasts ~2 seconds and during that time remaining 3 survivors can add even more progress to 3 other gens? And as already mentioned you have to hook people to get any use of it.
MYC - You already are on the other side of the map, you have no way of telling which one of the survivors is actually exposed nor does it help you track him. Count the times of how often killer gets to use that perk and make use of it.
Dying light - Why is this even a question? Perk it terrible and it buffs the obsession for no reason. Slow down it gives is weak unless almost all people are dead but game is done at the time so what's the point.
Spirit fury enduring - It gives a great power which can be 100% countered by survivors by just dropping the pallet early. Good survivors will know you have it and play around it, it's not hard, just don't play stupidly. AND it uses 2 perk slots.
Franklin's demise - It makes survivor drop an item... how is that powerful? It may cause them to look for it later but that's it. Your main argument is it makes survivor not have the item when they die and use an offering for it. No real upside so no downside either
Haunted - Counts on survivors greed, has a timer, doesn't help with tracking. Only time it is useful if survivor is already in chase or they are easily found. I have play many games where killer chased me for more then 60 seconds while it was active and it didn't come into play at all. It's a gamble at best
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If you think that DS is used to prevent people from tunnelling and DH is a weak perk then it tells people a lot about your experience as survivor.
DS being used as anti tunnel perk is fine but most of the time it isn't. It is used to gain immunity by jumping in a locker, it is used to recklessly save survivors off hook, work on gens, break totems and other things even after other people are downed are hooked.
DH is a safety measure. You use it to fix a mistake and more often then not that mistake is what decides if killer gets you downed or you extend a chase by other 20-30 seconds. It isn't useful in the open field but it grant you extra distance during looping.
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DBD will never be balanced, its forever cursed
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Give killers an option for solo queue.
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I jump in lockers as a survivor because otherwise the killer who is tunneling me will slug me. Jumping in a locker is counterplay to people avoiding consequences of tunneling on most occasions. 9/10 times the killer is rushing back to down me again. It's not immunity if you can still be downed. The only time DS could possibly be used in a way to grant full immunity is during the end game and at that point the killer is somewhat forced to tunnel. People who complain about DS 9/10 times are complaining because they don't want consequences for their actions outside of survivors actively trying to get you to hit them because they have DS, but in most occasions that's stupid because you'd just get slugged.
As i've said. I've used DH at maximum distance for it's ONLY good use(to get to another pallet) and still been hit through the pallet. Lithe or Balanced(current patch anyways) are 10x better than Dead Hard.
I don't even see Dead Hard as any kind of threat when I play killer. Every other exhaustion perk annoys me far more.
As for your arguments about the killer perks.
If you didn't have BBQ, outside of camping, you'd have to spend more time finding the next survivor. You can't tell me knowing where your next target is not powerful.
Pop: You can use this a maximum of 11 times. You don't have to use it every time. It's literally just a benefit of what you would normally do, kick a gen that's got a lot of progress before chasing that survivor near it. Or would you just let the gen go to chase that survivor you spotted even though you know where they are pretty much?
MyC: 32 meters is not that all the way across the map. That's less than 8 or 9 seconds distance for a 115 killer.
Dying Light is anything but weak. Most killers in my experience use Ruin for early game and Dying Light for after Ruin is gone. Dying Light after enough stacks slows the game down to a crawl. The only buff the obsession gets is heal speed and that's rarely used.
Sf/End: it shortens loops whether you drop it early or not. It's not completely countered.
Frankies: So this isn't a commonly used perk to prevent key escapes or groups with multiple items and considering that isn't powerful at all I guess that means if there was a survivor perk that removed a killer's power and addons for the rest of a chase after dropping a pallet on them you would agree it's not that powerful? I mean survivor "powers" are items and addons are the same as killer addons. I guarantee you'd think even removing a killer's addons for the duration of one chase would be overpowered. If it wasn't so useful, killers wouldn't use it.
Haunted Grounds: there is a chance that it won't come into play at the opportune moment, but there's no negative effect to using it, just like all the others, which read my argument.
Post edited by Atrushan88 on0 -
So "it's not immunity" but you jump in the locker to block killer from endangering you in any way shape or form for 60 seconds. My favourite part is when survivor runs in to the basement to grab survivor I just hooked, of course I grab him only to get DS'ed because he has been unhooked in last 50 seconds and want to use this immunity for extra 1500 points and easy unhook.
People already created hundreds threads about that broken perk and I see that all of the best players agree that this perk is being abused. If you get slugged you have to deal with it. Killer has to slug against good survivors but you already know that, don't you?
Sounds balanced to me. DS isn't a threat, it resets the chase for survivors that actually can use it effectively.
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Survivor Objective
- Power 5 generators. 80s each
- Multiple gens can be worked on at a time
- Power one of two doors.
- Escape
Killer Objective
- Find survivor, chase survivor, down survivor, and hook survivor.
- Repeat at most 12 times before suvivors can escape.
Seems well balance and thought out.
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I didn't say that all of them have all of those qualities. I said that most have most of those qualities. For example BBQ doesn't have a downside but it has extremely easy counter play that doesn't require perks or items. Also, Dying Light healing bonus is MUCH more influential than you give it credit for.
Spirit Fury + Enduring is easily countered by literally just dropping pallets earlier like you would against Clown. Franklins you just pick the items back up, this perk isn't even worth running. Lastly, what do you mean Haunted Ground doesn't have a downside, you literally just don't cleanse it and it could never even activate for the whole game. Not to mention even if it does you can just hide out its duration. You also have zero control over when it activates if it even does.
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I would like it to balance more around stealth then just basic looping into JG's, safe pallets, and god loops. Anyone can learn basic looping in 3-4 matches, and that's all survivors do now and run perks to make that even stronger. It doesn't require much skill at all. How many times have you seen these iconic movie horror villains chase someone around in circles or be stopped by a pallet in the movies? Could you imagine Nancy running around the boiler room in circles dropping pallets on Freddy?
I would also slow the gens down or re-buff ruin. Make it so the killer can re-activate their totem. Ruin is in a really bad place right now, and that's because of bad totem placement. Letting killers re-activate it would definitely help out. You would still have to find it to re-activate. It wouldn't just show up after it's been de-activated. Just a thought.. . .
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You need to listen to people with hours on this game. 500 at least, and the person must have reached at least purple ranks on both
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Well for one stop the nerf this wahhhhhh attitude for both sides
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I find it amusing all these survivor perks being listed and made as if this is a required "bag" of perks to play DBD as a survivor. What if you don't have these perks yet? What if you are a new player and have one perk only?
Then place three new players at rank 20 with one perk each against a rank 17 killer with four purple perks which are combined from various killers and then say the game is survivor sided...
Its not sided to either side... it depends on skill and what perks are in use.
That was why I suggested elsewhere a hard mode where you can only use the three unique perks on a character, be they killer or survivor.
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2000 hours and I'm rank one for both
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The game itself is insanely survivor sided at its core, I simply wanted to know how to fix it.
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The devs need to rework the maps so lower tier killers can compete.
Also, SWF needs some type of penalty to off-set the coordination advantage they get.
And of course, the devs can nerf any killer setups that are too powerful.
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Is the game really survivor sided when you play freddy? Spirit? Nurse? Billy? Not really, the game isn't survivor sided, the problem is some killers are just extremely weak
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I said what the devs need to do, not asked how long you played
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You'd think making a game would educated on it...
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Making killers perks as viable as survivors. I'm sorry, but it's BS that survivors can practically control some of their perks, and completely remove others, yet killers can't do none of that to survivors, yet killer is the power role? Where's the fear? All this is turning into is NASCAR on foot. Round and round we go, how many loops and pallets, nobody knows! You tunnel me, I throw a fit. You finally caught me after the infinity, now guess what? I QUIT! (DC)
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