Dramatic but this is how I feel now...
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No problem bro, I think it is how every legion main feels, that effectively know how this killer can be fun/good.
Not like those guys that think that 4ks will make a killer good. It doesn't matter at all.
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I'll come back to you after work then, if I still care enough to bother.
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Exactly. I'm glad you at least get it. You know how much I've struggled to get the Devs to see SOMEONE's idea for Legion to help them. Anyone's.
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Yeah, I've also fought against the nerfs and gave them good ideas on how to fix the legion from the beggining, when the update happened.
Yeah, you've made a giant discussion with people's ideas.
These are the reasons that i think that our feedback is ignored and i've lost my faith on behaviour too. They update was in may and we are in december with an even more nerfed killer.
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Exactly. With the whole community making jokes about how bad Legion is, and how they have no power.... they nerfed them more. They don't care. They don't listen. I tried my hardest to get then to see someone's idea. BHVR even read that post, you can see it on my wall... and they give us this.
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Also I think the best way to convince you is to let you look at these. Maybe when I get home from work i'll want to debate this "More calmly" but for now, just look at these.
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It just sends me to the original post, not a comment. Also, I've been the first person commenting on it ahaha. I already know the idea and gave my opinion about it.
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Request to delete the "Suggestion" sub forum. For now as we see you don't care about any feedback suggestion what we done about Legion. You continue with "dumb injustice nerfs" what no one request.
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Yea I understand that mate but they have people appointed to help communicate with the community. It's nice that they give us some information but I think not giving us any reason why really hurts our community in particular.
We have a very unique community since it is virtually divided into 2 different sides which is vastly different to most other communities. Every little change made in this game is a very sensitive subject to some and I think it would help our community a lot if they explained any changes. I don't want them to promise us anything but I'd like for them to explain some decisions from time to time.
The example I gave recently was fortnite. They seem to explain with most of their changes why they are making them and if the game ever has any problems seems to address it pretty quickly. I think the fact they reply to some problems and not them all really causes divide in our community which could be avoided.
Especially with Legion and how they know our community goes mad about him I think it would have been better to just give us some decent reasoning on why certain changes are made.
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The best part about this is that they are claiming "If you didn't like the Legion changes from the PTB, you should've voiced your opinion."
Because absolutely NO ONE did that. Sure, ok.
Legion needs a complete rework at this point. Legion being tied to Deep Wounds makes them fundamentally badly designed. Every nerf Legion gets almost always goes hand in hand to a buff to BT/DW. DW is practically pointless now, instead of changing Nemesis and BoP with Legion, you know, like they should have, they just completely made DW pointless. It's a band aid fix, meanwhile Legion sits in the corner, rotting corpses that they are.
Legion is one thing that devs never listen to their community about, they just go around, constantly avoiding any major rework they can, despite the massive cries from the community asking for a Legion rework to make them strong and fun to play with as killer, and challenging yet counterable for survivors.
But don't worry guys, Legion is getting Christmas sweaters, because everybody enjoys playing a massively gutted killer.
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Yeah, cause that was to the guy arguing with me that most everyone thinks this is a buff and Devs shouldn't be expected to listen to only me, and that I need to "grow a spine and accept change."
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Exactly, My Friend.
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I love how totems stalls longer then dw technically because it takes what 13 seconds to cleanse a totem? "Oh but legion is made to stall" okay does he go around smacking peoples hand doing no damage and just say "no bad" then run away?
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I thought it was a reply to me ahaha
Nvm xD
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Naw, you good.
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Where did they say that?
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The fact that they had to change the deep wound system once again because it caused problems with legion just proves legion needs a big rework tbh.
I like that they attempted to buff legion but they should have realized that these small buffs aren't really going to make any big difference and they don't justify the other nerfs they made.
Pretty disappointing patch overall. Filled with bandaid fixes and really questionable changes.
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We agree, I think for one of the first times. Goes to show you how serious this issue is.
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Well, I can't say that most of those ideas sound like they'd be a once-and-for-all fix for Legion's issues. Some of your proposed changes (Particularly many of the buffs to Deep Wounds and the rewards for hitting a Deep Wounded survivor) would give Legion the same problem they had before: Not being fun to play against. Others change their playstyle so drastically as to be unrecognizable. Other proposed changes actually appeared in the patch notes, but you seem to have overlooked them.
You've proposed all these different changes to DW, and in that thread, you complained about the fact that Survivors have no real pressure to mend and can just do gens so long as they stay in your terror radius. One of your first proposed changes is making it so the Deep Wounds timer ticks down if you do any actions other than mending, even while near the killer, so why are you complaining about it when DW now does exactly that?
The proposed changes I actually like (And which aren't already implemented) are increasing your movespeed as you chain more hits together, and reducing the punishment for missing a swing.
So they directly took your advice in several places. They buffed the pin add-ons, buffed FF's movespeed and vault speed, buffed the duration add-ons, and made Deep Wounds more urgent and threatening. So why are you complaining so vehemently, and claiming that the devs never listen to your feedback?
I would think that this thread would have a more positive or neutral tone. "I like X changes, I don't like Y changes, and I suggest Z changes for the next round of tweaks". Is that really so hard? Why go with outrage instead of a rational, constructive discussion?
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You obviously didn't get the point I was trying to make. That's not all me. It's not just me trying to brainstorm ideas. There are alot of us. I'm upset for all of us. So, I suppose you are allowed to just view it through your eyes and your view, but I hate to tell you that you aren't the sole voice that decides things any more than me. They did take some of the very very general suggestions you pointed out sure, but they also tacked on so many nerfs it made it meaningless. Also the "Outrage" is coming from you basically accusing me of being arrogant and not having a spine to accept change. You tossing all this at me when you know nothing about me.
It was exactly this that caused my "Outrage"
"You seem to have this notion that the devs are obligated to act upon your feedback, and incorporate your ideas into their reworks. Trust me when I say: The sooner you let go of this notion, the better it will be for your mental health. When you don't get fussy just because the devs didn't do exactly what you wanted, you'll often be pleasantly surprised by what the devs managed to come up with.
Good game design is nowhere near as easy as it seems. It takes a lot of brainstorming, a lot of designing, a lot of iteration, and a lot of trial and error to create a well-designed game, mechanic, or character. There are a multitude of factors to consider before you implement any given mechanic or make any given change, many of which are not obvious to the player who actually uses and interacts with the mechanic. And after you're done brainstorming, you usually need to test again and again. Assess your changes and decide whether or not they're accomplishing what they're meant to accomplish, and if they make the game more fun to play. And you'll often have to go back to the drawing board many times before you get something that really works. When you don't do that and try to rush the process, you end up with messy games like Mass Effect Andromeda, and Anthem."
You accused me of wanting things exactly my way, and that I got fussy, like some little child, when I didn't get it. You even take the time to insult my intelligence. You do not know me, you do not know what i've been through in my 30+ years of life, so I would ask you to kindly not make judgments about me.
Let's agree to disagree again. Let's just drop this once and for all between me and you. It's going no where and frankly you are a chore to talk to.
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And you test my patience as well. I have been as cordial, rational and constructive as I can, but you insist on getting your panties in a bunch because the devs didn't do exactly what you wanted, and it wasn't just a straight-up buff to every single aspect of the character.
I call it like I see it: you're making a fuss. You're causing a needless commotion over a sidegrade to Legion's power, saying that he's now "gutted" because he can't use two easily-replaced perks anymore, and Mending takes slightly less time than before, even though they gave Legion a long list of buffs, including several that Legion mains had been directly asking for.
If you wanna agree to disagree, so be it.
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And?
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Ditch deep wounds from his power it never worked and never will because it's tied to a survivor perk, make a special effect specific to legion and work from there.
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True, but so long as you aren't using it to chase someone, the stun won't matter too much.
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Honestly i like the new changes but he still sucks
I think just a few more tweaks and he'll be "fair"
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I apologise in advance but I haven't got the time to read the whole thread, I've read OP and the first few pages though.
As a killer I play mostly Legion and Hag, my Legion build was PWYF, Ruin, Monitor, Pop - as add-ons I usually used the Button + longer FF (the green one). I played just a couple of games with the new Legion, so that's very early to reach any conclusions, but I can point out some first impressions.
First of all, I tried to switch PWYF with thana, and instead of Button I chose the pin which gives the broken status effect.
The increased speed in FF is convenient with sprint bursters, but not that effective to chain hits if survivors split up. However, the quick vault is huge - there's no looping them while in FF, exactly how it should be. Thana + broken effect did their job, mostly by keeping survivors on edge, but considering the 4 seconds stun after FF is over I still prefer to do a basic attack if I know a survivor is most likely alone. Here the lack of PWYF is felt strongly, which makes me wonder if I should try to use the perk anyway.
The mending speed, as expected, is a nerf which shouldn't have been made: just change the add-ons if those are the problem, ffs!
The Deep Wound timer instead is something I don't really care about - considering Devs didn't want Nemesis to synergies at all with Legion, the change doesn't matter at all; survivors were already able to mend without any issue.
However, if they didn't change the mending time, the DW change could have been an interesting buff - survivors could have been more easily found after switching targets: either they would have run around (leaving scratch marks), or they would have had to be stuck in place mending. We're stuck with what we have though, so there's that.
I will probably try to switch again thana with PWYF and see how it goes - I won't get tokens nearly as fast but maybe I could try to even it out by smart hitting the Obsession (that is: always only one basic hit for them). We'll see.
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Large part? You have numbers for this? Cause it sounds like some people think this is a buff, but we don't know that. Same with the number of people who think it is a nerf. Its some. You're making misleading statements.
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The point about the community being ignored is in this thread. 6 pages of posts and no feedback?
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Whether or not this was a buff or a nerf you’re right. No feedback at all. This is terrible.
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There is an old saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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Deep Wounds were never meant to kill. They are just there to have survivors do before doing other objectives. Complaining about Deep Wounds debuff is like complaining about End Game Collapse because you thought it was more fun to bully the killer after all the gens are done.
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Take the Ghostface pill. He's mildly okay.
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They are a 12 second stall. That is almost nothing especially when the Legion goes off to find someone else.
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okay. How would you feel if as killer if a survivor stuns you with a pallet you have to sit there and hold m1 for 20+ seconds. Killer mains just don't understand that the game is boring enough for survivors already (hence the need to be toxic or even bully killers). What everyone needs to understand is that the asymmetrical aspect of this game needs to be acknowledged at all times. While it might be "balanced" if survivors had to sit on a gen for 2+ mins to finish it, it wouldn't be enjoyable. This is a video game that people play for fun, like with most video games. Loading screens are long enough. Survivor games should not have 10+ mins of loading screens embedded in them. I like their approach to the new killer, rewarding fast-paced gameplay and taking risks. I feel like this is what they wanted to try with Legion and although they messed up badly, it's not the fault of a game mechanic but rather how Legion's design is in direct counter with what the game was designed to play as. You make a good point and I like your creativity
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Who thought a survivor can stop bleeding if they run? Change the name to Survive by Daylight
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I'm taking a break from this game, this has gotten me so depressed I can't even have fun playing Survivor or even the new Killer. I don't have faith in the devs, they give us cookie cutter responses and those responses just show they aren't listening. If they were listening then they would know that we feel they aren't paying attention and that their design choices are flawed, so flawed it is obvious someone on the team shouldn't be working in this field.
We have complained for almost a year that the 4 second stun is too long and that was not even considered to be a change.
We have complained for almost a year that the Pin add-ons need to be on hit and they give us this mess we didn't ask for.
They aren't listening and I'm done playing until they fix their #########. When Legion gets fixed I'll be back, not even a new chapter will bring me back because they always do something stupid with the perks and nerf them to being useless; Cruel Confinement for example.
I'll probably stalk the forums though because there are cool people on here that I enjoy conversing with :) Until I get banned for something stupid.
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I am so sad to see this @UlvenDagoth but I completely understand and you have my utter support and respect.
Thank you so much for fighting for so long adding to the countless amazing ideas for legions changes. I truly hope you find a passion to continue your work but I understand the step back.
I just wanted to give you some support my stabby friend take some boops and I hope you find happiness soon my friend. Much respect!
💕🐷
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Thank you for testing this for me.
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I know right? They don't care.
I tried to point that out to them too.
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That's funny, cause it doesnt even stop them from doing anything else now. Also, no, complaining about this and EGC are no where near the same thing.
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You lost all credibility as soon as you said there was a "need" to be Toxic or bully Killers. There is NEVER A NEED TO BULLY ANYONE!
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forgot to put quotes around need. Anything else you want to nitpick bud?
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It defies all logic and sense.
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Nope, cause you won't listen anyway.
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Let me get this straight...you call me out for stereotyping but then go on to stereotype me as the type of person who won't listen to you. FYI, I'll listen to anyone as long as they have something insightful to say.
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This is exactly how I feel about it. I've lost all faith in BHVR. Till they do something to bring that back, i'm not giving them a single cent.
Thank you so much. This means alot to me, prolly more than you would expect. I just can't right now. I really hope I can get up the give a darn to keep yelling at them to change Legion, but when it feels like they don't ever listen, why bother?
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Okay cool. Then let's try and see if we can both get around this.
The Deep wound change made any and all stalling for Legion basically useless. They can run across map with no issue, work on a gen for a moment, then mend. Or they can just instantly start mending after being hit and even if the Legion stops and eats that stun, they can just run away with no penalty while Legion looks at there hands for 4 seconds. It would have been better to NOT lower mending times if this change was gonna be made, or revert the changes at least but no. We both have 8-12 seconds of "Stall" with RUNNING pausing the timer. Add to that Legion can't see Scratch Marks in FF or even blood, loses 50% of there power on a m1 hit, and lost all of there perks synergies with Feral Frenzy (Which removed EVEN MORE "STALL") and you have a Kilelr who's power is literally more punishing to use then not use.
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Oh I see. I thought you meant the recent change flipped Legion on their head but now I see that it was more like the final nail in the coffin in a long series of unnecessary legion nerfs. I see why you would give up at this point, Legion has officially been put into the ground by the devs.
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Exactly. Burned, buried, desecrated and forgotten.
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