http://dbd.game/killswitch
What do killers need most to balance games?
From both sides of the argument I've come up with ideas.
1. Shorter maps: I feel like a lot of killers struggle just because they don't have the mobility to chase and stop objectives.
2. Great Skill checks don't increase progression: I feel like this really makes gens easy to do and makes them quicker to finish, but I think survivors should get some other reward like maybe a 1% luck boost that stacks 4 times?
3. Spread objectives out and make survivors spawn away from them: I really feel like survivors really shouldn't spawn right on top of generators, chests, or totems. They need to spawn in more dead areas in the map and have to walk to get to them.
4. Map spawns of pallets, jungle gyms, and loops: There needs to be a fix on vaults/ pallets spawning farther away from each other.
5. Give killers the option to break pallets and damage gens before they are worked on or thrown: I feel like this can give killers strategy to fortify areas that they want to defend or weaken survivors capacity to juke. Like they can kick gens to put them in a fixed negative that applies overcharge or pop goes the weasel, and they can destroy unthrown pallets but the animation is slightly longer.
Comments
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1, 3, and 4 is alright.
No to the others. Breaking unthrown pallets is not a necessity. However, the damaging gens part is fine.
Taking away the great skillcheck reward makes great skillchecks worthless.3 -
Slow down gens.... thats the main problem
Just played a game where I actually caught the first surivor quite fast, but still others powered through ruin and poped 2 gens
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A majority of these problems are map design issues but dev's simply refuse to change maps. Many of the existing loops have been here from the start and dev's are unwilling to change these locations. I want to see these maps change because right now as huntress when I choose to leave the hook going far is a bad idea as time spent traveling farther to hunt is too precious and patrolling seems like the only solution. If devs don't want to change the maps close vault spots after being used twice or make bamboozle gate closing effect the default. As for the great skill checks idea make it a passive effect on ruin so even when destroyed you have something to slow the games down.
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IMO games are just too short. Survivors are doing what they're supposed to do, so I can't really be upset with that. Personally, I feel like there just needs to be more incentive for survivors than just gens to extend games longer. Risk vs Reward type of thing.
I mean there kind of is now, when they gen rush, they get practically no points. Adding a little something extra in game for survivors would probably prompt some longer games so killers have a better chance of getting kills.
Honestly, this next suggestion is probably a little far fetched and wishful thinking. What if they added "elite" objectives past completing 5 gens. For example, if they completed the 5 gens, they could voluntarily leave the game like normal but if they stayed in game and completed 7 gens and some type of in-game puzzle, they could banish/kill the killer for extra blood points. Would be neat for SWF groups while giving the killer more opportunity to finish the game before they do. Would love to see the salt in chat of a group banishing a nurse main.
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- Yes.
- LOL no.
- Ideal, but not physically possible. There are 7 gens, 5 totems, 5 chests, 4 survivors, and 1 killer. Only so many tiles per map (I think the average is 10? not sure). There would be very few spots where you would be able to spawn survivors. They just need better totem placement so your Ruin isn't in LOS of a gen or spawns next to a survivor.
- No. There are only a few spots that need fixing, and they need to adjust the cover around every pallet tile to allow for mindgames. Too many "safe" pallets when there should only be at most 3 (shack, 1 or 2 for main structures).
- Again no. Killers would just go around destroying every pallet at the start of a game then survivors have nothing to fight back.
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@thesuicidefox said:
1. Yes.
2. LOL no.
3. Ideal, but not physically possible. There are 7 gens, 5 totems, 5 chests, 4 survivors, and 1 killer. Only so many tiles per map (I think the average is 10? not sure). There would be very few spots where you would be able to spawn survivors. They just need better totem placement so your Ruin isn't in LOS of a gen or spawns next to a survivor.
4. No. There are only a few spots that need fixing, and they need to adjust the cover around every pallet tile to allow for mindgames. Too many "safe" pallets when there should only be at most 3 (shack, 1 or 2 for main structures).
5. Again no. Killers would just go around destroying every pallet at the start of a game then survivors have nothing to fight back.Before I start, I have been playing this game for over a year when Doc came out and I am a survivor main.
I don't get it, I actually make suggestions for fixing the timer issue that killers have and they don't see great skill checks as a problem. In low ranks survivors can barely get gens done in 8 mins, in high ranks they can get them done pre 5 without any toolkits. Making gens take longer would hurt balance for low skill players, but removing great skillcheck boosts would remove a lot of power from high skill players.
Survivors should be spawned in random almost bad places in the map, if one guy gets spawned in the basement that might add to the spook factor pretty quick, hell survivors should randomly spawn in lockers so they have to waste animation frames just to get out, the maps are so big why the hell survivors are just spawning on top of gens?
Pallets, jungle gyms, loops, should not spawn right next to each other, there needs to be at least a 20m distance from these types of objects. The devs have this power in their capacity when they nerfed pallet spawn. I do notice some updates to it but it feels really random on the spawns and not tested enough.
I think killers need more control over the game, it doesn't make sense that survivors have every tool to stop a killer but a killer has no tools to stop a survivor.1 -
@iceman2kx said:
they could banish/kill the killer for extra blood points.They already have a grand ol' time killing my soul as a Killer.
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Skip to 1:52
https://youtu.be/ARzHpMx3l28 2 -
The best thing that could happen to killers in terms of balance that maps overall are revisited and changed so that long loops and true safe pallets both are gone.
It'd shorten the chases and thus let killers pressure the maps more. It'd also motivate for a more stealthy gameplay style for survivors as they cannot loop-to-win anymore, thus further slowing down the game.
Changed maps would also allow for more different killers to do well, so Nurses wouldn't be as prominent much to survivors' joy everywhere.
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None of these are issues if gens didn't get done so quickly. The issue isnt the loops, just how much can be done in that minute or two of mandatory chase.1
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The problem really boils down to maps, fix the maps you fix the gen rush. The game needs to be much more stealthy based with less safe spots to drop pallets/loop. But since there's not lots of places to be super stealthy and Doctor/Nurse negate it.
The current issue is that without the safe spots it's see a survivor=hooked survivor very quickly with no counterplay. If they could change it to be more los breakers with multiple ways to evade the killer and perhaps only 1-2 pallets per small map and 5-6 on really large maps but super spread out. The same for windows/vault locations.
One change they could make now without having to completely redesign maps is for the great looping spots and only those spots. They could add a speed boost that decays provided you're hugging that edge say for example the sac tree on ColdWind. If you're going around it more than x times in a short duration then any of the 4 outside corners would give you x boost for x seconds.
But only when hugging the corners to prevent just doing that even after a survivor leaves to get a mega boost. This would still allow some limited looping to break los for a get away attempt while also giving killers a chance in those spots.
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Scales.
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@akbays35 said:
I don't get it, I actually make suggestions for fixing the timer issue that killers have and they don't see great skill checks as a problem. In low ranks survivors can barely get gens done in 8 mins, in high ranks they can get them done pre 5 without any toolkits. Making gens take longer would hurt balance for low skill players, but removing great skillcheck boosts would remove a lot of power from high skill players.Removing great skill checks or their rewards just removes any bit of skill left in doing gens. It's just not a reasonable solution. Gens themselves don't need to take longer, there just needs to be something in the game to force them to be done at a reasonable pace, one that only affects the most optimal players. Your suggestion would hurt survivors at all ranks, not just the best ones.
Survivors should be spawned in random almost bad places in the map, if one guy gets spawned in the basement that might add to the spook factor pretty quick, hell survivors should randomly spawn in lockers so they have to waste animation frames just to get out, the maps are so big why the hell survivors are just spawning on top of gens?
Pallets, jungle gyms, loops, should not spawn right next to each other, there needs to be at least a 20m distance from these types of objects. The devs have this power in their capacity when they nerfed pallet spawn. I do notice some updates to it but it feels really random on the spawns and not tested enough.Again it's just not possible. I want you to take 10 sheets of paper (tiles), get a few coins/Chess pieces to represent gens, totems, hook, chests, survivors, and the killer. On the sheets of paper draw out each tile (1 for shack, 1 for main building, some jungle gyms, some double L walls, etc.). Now arrange the tiles in a way where no 2 jungle gyms/double L walls are next to each other. Don't forget that main structures MUST be in the middle. Now put down the items for gens, totems, hooks, and chests. Make sure each tile has a limit of 1 of each. Now step back and take a look at your masterpiece. Where can you put a survivors AND the killer in such a way that they aren't right on top of SOMETHING. Also take note to the fact that no matter how you arrange the tiles, you will have some stuff right next to each other. This is why your suggestion wouldn't work. It's just not physically possible to separate all of this stuff evenly in a random sequence. You might come up with a few arrangements, but that removes randomness from the equation leading to very stale and predictable maps.
Like I said, they just need to put totems in better spots, where they aren't visible from gens and aren't clear out in the open. That's the only problem.
I think killers need more control over the game, it doesn't make sense that survivors have every tool to stop a killer but a killer has no tools to stop a survivor.
More control =/= total control. Letting killers destroy pallets before they are used will just lead to a meta where a killer spends 60 seconds destroying every pallet on the map which survivors frantically rush gen. That's not good. You want killers to have total control, which is to say that you want them to be able to completely nullify all survivor tactics. That's not a fair solution, it's a completely lopsided one.
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Killers need to be leveled in balance. The outliers make it extremely difficult to balance because several killers outright ignore mechanics critical to a survivor actually bringing time for their team, or cut so much time off compared to others, or have numerous perks built in automatically. Most of the killers don't, or can't, and so balancing is skewed.
Map size can't be adjusted due to mobility issues with Hillbilly and/or Nurse. Pallets can't be adjusted because they're the main escape mechanic, and some maps are pretty barebones these days. Windows are a problem, but they don't affect Nurse.
That's the main issue, imo.
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@Eninya said:
Killers need to be leveled in balance. The outliers make it extremely difficult to balance because several killers outright ignore mechanics critical to a survivor actually bringing time for their team, or cut so much time off compared to others, or have numerous perks built in automatically. Most of the killers don't, or can't, and so balancing is skewed.Map size can't be adjusted due to mobility issues with Hillbilly and/or Nurse. Pallets can't be adjusted because they're the main escape mechanic, and some maps are pretty barebones these days. Windows are a problem, but they don't affect Nurse.
That's the main issue, imo.
I think they can trim the maps down in size and add another building or more verticallity or basements. I do agree that Nurse and Billy are on different levels than the other killers. I think that all the other killers deserve some kind of mobility buff or mobility tied into their power passively. I just don't like how killers are forced to react to survivors mistakes than to be proactive where they can be and that all falls on the game design. The game is designed for killers to be at a disadvantage, to wait until the survivor touches a gen or give away their positon, to wait for a pallet throw, to wait for any action involving the survivors. Survivors don't have to wait for crap, they can start the gens right away, run a loop, throw a pallet, and hope their team doesn't fail them utterly. Most killers have to rely on survivors to fail in order to win.
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@thesuicidefox said:
3. Ideal, but not physically possible. There are 7 gens, 5 totems, 5 chests, 4 survivors, and 1 killer. Only so many tiles per map (I think the average is 10? not sure). There would be very few spots where you would be able to spawn survivors. They just need better totem placement so your Ruin isn't in LOS of a gen or spawns next to a survivor.The average Map has a size of 160 square Tiles
Source - https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Realms
Smallest map is Treatment Theatre with a mere 116 tiles, where as The Pale Rose has a whopping 216 tiles.
In looking at these figures, I figured out pretty quickly that map size itself isn't the only determining factor as to wither it's survivor or killer biased.
Sheltered Woods, for example, is 176 tiles but is considered slightly killer Bias. The Asylum, which is considered Survivor biased, is only 172 tiles.
The shape and configuration of the landmark tiles seem to be the biggest contributes to the problem.
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Half competent map designer would solve alot of issues.
It's good that there are sinecures, but map designer for asymmetrical PvP game is not place for it.
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What killers need is to have identical sized hitboxes as the survivors. This will negate the effectiveness of looping and fat shaming which will make killers more of a threat.2
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This right here is something that would help a lot. Even if they were to reduce the hitbox but just a small amountPeasant said:What killers need is to have identical sized hitboxes as the survivors. This will negate the effectiveness of looping and fat shaming which will make killers more of a threat.2 -
Seconded. Making the collision box the same size means time stalling tactics like looping are over. This will make gens more balanced by it's nature. No time stall = gens don't need to be longer. Pallets will fix themselves as pallet looping will no longer be viable. You can even make a separate hit detection box survivor size as long as collision boxes are the samePeasant said:What killers need is to have identical sized hitboxes as the survivors. This will negate the effectiveness of looping and fat shaming which will make killers more of a threat.1
