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How many people would favour old type BT back?
Since DS/BT are a hot topic I want to ask this question.
please say if you’re killer main/survivor main/both...
This change (tad dif): BT is one time use again, works for the rescuer and rescued but will not work when the exit gates are powered.
The whole reason why DS-BT combo is so strong is because they’re both anti-tunnel perks that can loop-hole into abuse if used well enough together. Whereas old BT was primarily an anti-camp perk (you only needed 1 use because you’d make a late rescue intentionally, trade places and then by that time gens have popped) - atleast that was the goal.
My argument for it:
The idea of being able to bait BT again (as it’s 1 time) is what makes me think the synergy will slowly be cut up.
You’re never really going to try to hit 2 people with endurance ready (that 15 seconds), just one of them unless you’re leatherface (multi-hit)... if a killer tries to tunnel a person off a hook the rescuer can still body block to take a hit. If you plan not to tunnel then there’s waiting 15 seconds.
I think other changes might be necessary with BT/DS... like a timer given to the killer counting to 60 so you know as the killer when endurance has ended and when DS has ended on a survivor.
I’m not saying these exact changes should make it through but whether people agree with the concept or not.
Edit: I also want to add that the bodyblocking mechanics have changed since when Old BT was a thing... it wouldn’t be as effective to block paths with the killer like back then.
Comments
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I main both sides, I’d prefer current BT and my reason is that the survivors skill doesn’t matter when that BT bar starts going down, you’re forced to go down and then you’re back to being camped.
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ty for the response...
But if you pair that with in the hands of SWF... that’s essentially made them counter-less... Solos aren’t expected to get BT save after BT save... SWF already do this though if they want. Solos take BT just for if they want to make that save. Camping’s also been nerfed quite a tonne on the emblem system that it’s not really viable to rank up.
Like you are right... but the end result is the killer can’t do anything if they play normally too. It goes further than camping.
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I prefer this one as the old one means you can get punished for not tunneling more as the rescuer has a free 15s window hit if they are injured. I do think the DS/BT combo being abused is an issue when they both have 60s of immunity especially at end game.
The old one also being one time use only helped with camping at certain stages and could become less viable for solo as they cant coordinate someone finishing the last gen or opening the gate.
Now a change that could be done is when you have DS active and you save within 20s the person on the hook gets the BT effect but DS deactivates for you. This is to stop those instant saves using both perks to have some immunity.
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With current BT you can down the unhooker and if they’re stabbing you before endgame then they’re wasting DS.
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Trust me when I say solos used old BT well back in the day... the general theme was don’t use it unless it’s the basement but otherwise sneak to save it... sometimes you do bring perks expecting not to always get full use from them like adren/unbreakable.
Yeah there is 15 seconds of safety but there are other factors... if the survivor is already fully healed then only insta-down killers have a problem but they can M1 those... so it could be looked at as 15 seconds half the time. Then there’s bypassing the odd BT by being near the hook but actually having plans to go elsewhere.
Other things that could come for solos is knowing what perks teammates are running which I hope is something that will come to DBD... I don’t see how it can be controversial in cutting the gap between solos/swf.
Perks will always have a kind of over-benefit at times. The old BT would distribute power between solos more than current BT which retains all the power in SWF... being able to get 8 uses flawlessly is an issue.
However BT gets rebalanced... whether the one I suggested is right... I do think it needs to become 1 time again to level out power and whatever the additional bonus is is something subject to balance.
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Both.
Well I dont get the idea of BT for the unhooker as well. For what reason exactly?
Im fine with the current BT as you can counter it, ofc not in every situation. Its still a perk and not everyone is running it.
Imo it also should work in egc. Its a pressure scenario and going for a unhook is pretty risky.
If BT is one time use who would run it and for what reason prefer it over other perks? sounds trash to me. not even considerable from my side.
If somebody gets BT saved and runs DS i think its the killers fault if he hits him in BT and gets ds'ed when picking up. Why would you do that?
So no, I wouldnt want old BT back
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The weighing comes down to 8 BT’s (from swf) down to 4 (for solos and swf) but yeah 15 seconds of BT for the rescuer if they’re already injured/or got insta-hit and BT no longer works in late game. If you can burn all the BT’s before the endgame then yeah it’s just DS’s to worry about which would be far more counteract-able if there wasn’t DS’s in the endgame to make saves then BT’ing people on the hook who tank a hit and then when they’re down also have a DS etc. (Leading to everyone escaping just via perk).
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That’s how old BT was... you had 1 BT save but if you were saving someone it worked for you too - you had 15 seconds of endurance ready. The question is the title but I was just describing what old BT did but also making further ideas of changes to not fully bring back old BT.
If BT works in the endgame though... paired with DS that’s pretty much lock-down tools for guarantee’ing an escape with enough co-ordination.
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Just keep BT as it is but make it work only once per game.
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It's certainly food for thought about the one time use but it could also widen the gap between solo and swf a little as they can of course coordinate a save without it by having two full healed at the hook.
I think the main issue is more about how powerful it can be with coordinated teams versus solo players. It's good for solo but can be heavily abused with swf. It's hard to balance for both sets of players.
Seeing perks could be nice but also could cause them to be lobby dodged for those who don't use meta perks. It could also cause toxicity when some start to tell players what to run. Some like to change up builds and while swf will accept a friend using a meme, adept or simply levelling up a char with no good perks build others may see it as too much of a disadvantage and leave much like why the rank was removed from lobbies. More info sounds good but it's always been shown to be unusable in some way unfortunately.
Seeing perks doesn't show any indication of the player's ability so what would it actually tell you? It comes down to either a team setup or solo setup.
I wonder if a player with BT or DS simple had a different colour aura when you are hooked or they are slugged may be doable. A simple switch so you see yellow if they are down with DS and red when you are hooked when they have BT as they are existing colours already.
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I’d agree with this more than current BT... but then people would say... why would you run BT now... maybe if there wasn’t 15 seconds of potential endurance... perhaps 10 seconds for the rescuer and 20 seconds for the rescued... idk.
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Ah okay. Well I know old BT and didnt even get it back then. Why does the unhooker need endurance, for what reason? Thats definitly something I wouldnt want back. If you go for an unhook i think its not a good idea you do it when its unsave for yourself and the person you unhook.
Sure but what kind of situation is that? For example: If endgame is active and at least 3 people are alive including the one on the hook and the hooked one has ds and didnt use it before endgame aaaaaand the unhooker has BT and you are close the hook with terror radius, ...etc there are so many things that have to occur that imo the survivor deserved the "easy escape". It pretty much sounds to me like an edge case.
The real thing with BT is imo the "easy save dont worry i got BT mentality". At least vs lesser skilled killers thats a problem. If I could rework the perk I only would grant the save unhook scoring event after 20 seconds with BT. So the unhooker has to actually care.
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100% old BT was easier to get success from if you soloqued because if you went to rescue someone you gained something from the perk and didn’t need to depend on anyone saving you just from that aspect alone. Players do know if it’s time to rescue or not by the TR and the only barrier of coordinating old BT as solos is knowing if other teammates also have it. Solos wouldn’t even coordinate current BT (knowing 1 person has it) because they’d simply want to be able to pip.
The problem with “people could dodge” really needs to be let go by BVHR... They’re the only gaming company that assume guilty until proven innocent on their playerbase with what is a more casual based game than competitive... the only perk I could see as “dodge-able” is no mither... but then why not just buff it so that won’t happen. Less than 1% of people run the perk... if BVHR are afraid of (less than 1% of people*3) potentially dodging a lobby over the health of the game for what about 99% of players or so... that’s not weighing costs carefully. Also quickswitching does exist if people really want to play no mither or something like that without hassle from teammates.
Well if I see someone with urban evasion and stealth perks.... I’m going to confidently assume they’re going to hide most of the match, if I saw perks like WGLF, MoM, Adren, Unbreakable, DS etc on a teammate I assume they’re going to run the killer around... if I see we’ll make it/BT... I assume They’ll want to make the challenging saves which means I’m going to sit on gens for most the match.
I solo-que on R6S... and you’d be suprised how solo-players can adapt from minimum information to be made the most out of... sure still not on SWF level but still major improvement than before.
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Killer main; I didn't play during old BT, but from the looks of it, I think I prefer the current BT. Old BT seems like it made bad saves even easier than this one.
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Does current BT even make good saves though? They’re always around the killer.
I sometimes wonder if killers prefer the current BT because solos would be more difficult to beat and survivors who swf take their cake and eat it with the current BT knowing that they’re kind of shielded by the idea that they only cover a certain amount of the playerbase.
The end result is killers will have an advantage over solos but will be disadvantaged from SWF leading to no real balanced game.
Not saying you see it this way but I feel like if you’re a solo survivor you’ve been bullied by these mentalities.
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There's a difference of being within the Killer's TR and being about two inches from the Killer.
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People still make the save just for the free emblem... sure they go down but they can do it multiple times and if they’re in an SWF... they can do it also... ultimately also removing skill-based MM in a sense of boosting.
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I'm admittedly not really sure what you are trying to say here.
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Survivors hook rush if they have BT... there’s just no risk not to... if the killer will down you for doing it you still get benevolence points and the teammate is hit and still potentially tunnelled. You’d just have to down the hook rusher, follow the unhooked waiting 15 seconds then down them again... would work before the end game anyway.
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That was until undetectable became a thing where BT doesn't work at all and you can't tell. It's been compounded with that status on stealth killers and now with perks.
It's not BHVR that needs to let it go as if BHVR was on it they would stop killers dodging lobbies for items and skins. It's the players that hate being dodged for just wanting to use what the game offers. While you can get some use with certain info again it doesnt day much and most builds are brought upon by the meta and doesnt day how well they can use them. The bottim line though is should someone really have a hard time to find a match just because they chose to run certain things or who they are or what rank? That's the whole issue with dodging any lobby as like you said its a casual game so it shouldn't matter and we should all just play the game we are put into.
While you stay on gens when someone is running we'll make it or BT not everyone will. Players want the bloodpoints and emblems so they will still compete for them. That then allows toxicity as just like people running inner strength can be upset when someone breaks a totem. You knowing someone has something to aid in a rescue they may feel you should have let then do it which isn't the case at all in this game.
While RS6 is a team game DBD isn't. In RS6 you can win if one person manages to clutch and try as best to coordinate for the whole outcome. while in this game you want bloodpoints and the chance to pip and wether you live or die means nothing to those who manage to escape.
There is quite a fundamental difference between a team game and this one as in a team game you will win or lose as one entity.
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I see the current BT superior and encourage smart team play.
If you can't rely on other to have BT, gamble that the killer don't have Franklin's and grab a reworked Medkit. As long the killer is not right next to the hook, when you get unhooked, you can pop your Medkit and be save for the same amount of time.
So we have access to both options.
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*On Topic Statement*
I play both sides. I think new BT is the least painful for killer because the killer at least has a chance at hook swapping, especially if he's running "Make Your Choice".
*Off Topic Statement*
If that change you mentioned was made, BT would fall way down in the Meta. Face/proximity camping would become more viable than it already is if you are just looking to "4K" without worry of points or pip (especially for noob killers who typically camp anyway). That change would greatly lower BT's value. People would compensate a different way, but I think it would ultimately be bad for newer players. A.) Getting demolished every game doesn't promote most people to want to continue to play long enough to get better. It's typically much rougher to be a noob survivor than a noob killer (if matchmaking does its job, no smurfs in your lobby, etc). BT helps noob players to feel safer about going for hook saves. We all remember the low ranks and how other survivors would just leave you on the hook to die. As they figure out things such as the BT/WGLF combo, they get points greedy, and come get you off the hook if only for their own purpose. Being farmed is better than being left to die while they hide on the edge of the map and hope for hatch.
People get tunnel vision on specific perks and forget SWF is the strongest "perk" in the game. Over half of the player base play mainly in solo queue.The more and more you nerf perks/survivor, the less and less playing solo queue is viable. Killers despise SWF and by nerfing survivor more and more, you are pushing people to only want to play in a SWF. This will lead to a larger percentage of players only playing with select people making SWF teams stronger and stronger and therefore making killer less and less fun. Survivor has had a very large amount of nerfs since the launch of this game. I won't deny that killers get occasional nerfs, but the survivor nerfs are far more frequent and severe in comparison.
Don't screw yourself (as killer) by hoping for survivor nerfs to the point that everyone you face is a well trained 4 man SWF with flashlight skills, looping skills and can hit Ruin skill checks in their sleep.
As with anything in life, the harder you make things, the weak will fall away and the strong will persevere. I'm thankful for the games when I get obvious weak links with poor skills. I don't want to think about the day when I log on as killer and find every team to be precise, deliberate and well skilled. They will just lead you from pallet to pallet and in 5 minutes they will all teabag at the gate and leave with their 13K points. Personally, not my idea of fun.
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A game should not be balanced around the lowest skill, it should be balanced around the second highest tier of skill.
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Both, I play killer more lately.
I think BT is fine as it is right now. If a killer camps/tunnels then he's gonna do it again. That's why I like unlimited uses. Back then it could be wasted by a killer just happening to go within radius of 32m. If people have problems with current BT and are insisting on camping then hit the unhooker as they're going for the save and then down them after they've saved. Easy counter :)
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I am fully aware just how much killers camp and tunnel, but BT is in a pretty decent spot I think.
If you buff BT then you are making the end game potentially very difficult for the killer.
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It's a 3 year old game. People get tired/bored and move on to other games. We need a continuous flow of newer people. If new "survivors" get face camped every game and just rot on the hook for 60 seconds and die, they won't continue to play the game and we won't have anyone to play the game with. Killer lobby queue's are already horribly long. You literally have to wait 10-25 minutes in the low ranks for a lobby as a killer. I wait 5-10 minutes for green and purple rank killer games. I don't want queue times to be even longer nor do I want every team I face to be a well skilled SWF.
I've tried to get several friends into this game. Most all want to play survivor in the beginning and every single one of them end up not wanting to play the game after about 100 hours of solo queue survivor game play. Most get very frustrated at getting face camped and/or tunneled. They all feel like they have zero chance to get away and keep dying over and over. They don't play long enough to understand anything other than the very basics and they are over it. After a short while, they just de-install and go back to a different game. The asymmetrical nature of the game makes it very hard for new solo queue survivors to not feel helpless.
The point being.... If the game is poorly balanced at the bottom, no new players will stick around long enough to become "second highest tier" and therefore you and I will have no one to play the game with but "the best of the best". I'm not that competitive and I don't want to get demolished over and over in what is a "casual" game. If we need anything, we need new "modes".Something to ease the pain for new people who need to learn (most people can't round up 4 more people to play KYF). Who wants to play what is an exact mirror of the regular mode, but with zero blood points or progress for your time spent playing it? New modes for experienced players to do something other than the exact same thing we've been doing for 3 years. At this point, any kind of new mode would be a good thing. Either that or DBD2 needs to be here in the very near future. Maybe a 5, 6, 8 or 10 perk mode. I'm not game maker, but I think something like that should be about as simple as it gets at adding a "new mode". Imagine all the wicked imbalance and possible things that could happen if all survivors and the killer could chose more than 4 perks.I'm sure there are much better ideas, but just about anything would be welcome this far in to the games life. New Killers and cosmetics are nice, but it isn't really adding that much to the game at this point IMO. The only things that I really notice over and over is who long lobby queues are and how bad latency is with these servers.
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Flex main. Play both equally. This version is definitally better, but the range it gets activated from should be heavily reduced and by no means should be linked to the terror radius. It meant to be an anti camp perk but it’s not. It’s a free unhook perk in every situation and the unhooked survivor will automatically go for bodyblocking after you target the unhooker. (which is anoying as #########) Deep wound progress should be a lot faster too.
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Its funny.
They slap cooldowns on killer perks like surge or blood echoes,
but you can mindlessly unhook people with bt.
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I'm a survivor main, so I prefer the current BT. The old BT was not as powerful, so if I played more killer, I would prefer that one.
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i want BT to go back to being borrowed TIME instead of a borrowed health state
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Both: go back
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I disagree, if they are going to nerf it to only work for one of the two it better be usable more than once.
As for current bt vs old by I like the multi use against constant campers but it not protecting you as the unhooked means it won't be used except by those going hard for hooks against those campers knowing they may instantly go down
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If killer doesn't camp, BT is worthless (soft or hard camp)... If killer camps (again soft or hard) BT is the counter to that, so there doesn't need to be another counter to a counter... (Only change would be lower the radius and add a distance check vs terror radius as 0 terror killers have a distinct advantage to camping with no plausible counter.
As for DS, it's the counter that usually solo players run as they don't have a team with BT on... Easy killer counter as you can either wait 45 sec once you determine who has DS after downing..
Right now the perks are balanced except for BT with zero terror killers
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I would love old BT back since killers nowadays just want to hook camp and force hook trades between survivors which is the most braindead tactic I can think of.
Also a Killer main like that matters enough to mention.
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Hmm I actually like the idea of borrowed time being on a cool down but at least make it like old BT.
Also surge shouldn't be on cool down 👍
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BT is ok but DS needs to revert. By that I mean it persists until you're picked up as a one time use. No juggling. So basically make as it is now but remove the timer, I've just been seeing killers wait it out, even if i run into a locker to make sure i can use it on a tunnler.
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I want the BT before Legion was released. I mean if they're going to gut Legion, might as well revert all the buffs that BT got because of him.
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No, old bt would let people unhook safely 100% of the time with 0 chance for the killer to stopping it even if they do it in his face, the killer shouldn't be punished for going after the unhooker
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I find both perks to be in an OK place.
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Didn't you say you stopped playing Killer? And were a survivor main like a few weeks ago? Interesting
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I’ve started playing killer again a week ago.
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