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Did buffing killers/nerfing survivors result in more SWF creating the killer shortage at red ranks
With the exception of blunders like mettle of man and ez anytime flashlight/pallet saves it seems like red rank survivor ques are at an all time high.
Seems weird since the improvements for killers over the last 2 years have been massive. I couldn't imagine playing killer now with things like
Pallet vacuum, Double pallet spawns, Instant full gen BnPs, Insta blind 180' flashlights, 4 man insta escape DS, BT that effected unhooker as well, Little things like slow picking up survivors, slow pallet break, slow hooking etc etc etc
I think all these changes have made more players play swf turning more killers off of survivor which I'd assume was the opposite intended effect
Anyways just figured I'd share my thoughts while waiting in que
Comments
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@Might_Oakk playing as killer is pretty bad right now. There haven’t been any killer buffs, other than Freddy, and the implementation of Oblivious and Undetectable, which is more of a wash, so I don’t know why you think otherwise. I guess Scratched Mirror Myers is now way over the top, as he doesn’t have his stain anymore, but that would be it. People thought Legion was getting a major buff, but they changed Mend, so he actually got more of a nerf.
Survivors on the other hand, got A pretty significant buff to BT, due to the Mend changes. It’s pretty easy to bully any killer right now, due to some of the bugs that killers are seeing. Lunging around corners, or windows, is rarely working correctly now. The camera will lock onto some random object and it gets hit, instead of the survivor. And matches have been extending to 20+ minutes because of the issues. Not fun at all.
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If you are having trouble playing killer in 2019 that's on you.
You are certainly the minority as shown in statistical information or by any streamer.
Otz just played 16 games of trapper without Ruin and brown add ons and 0 games were 5 gens completed
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Some content creators have their ideas for what is causing the longer queues for survivors at red ranks, and I don’t think it has to do with gameplay it self.
the new matchmaking system they implemented a bit ago would pair you with a killer according to the highest rank on your swf team. As opposed to the average of ranks. With that in mind, we can assume that all swfs are being funneled towards the higher ranks. Unless every person on your team is the same rank as you, you are getting put with higher ranked killers because your friend is a higher rank.
Meaning there are a lot more survivors playing at high ranks, with the normal red rank survivors and the swf groups boosting their teammates. There aren’t less red rank killers, just more red rank survivors.
that could also explain why queues at low ranks for killers take a while. All the survivors are playing with their friends at higher ranks.
i know what the new matchmaking was trying to do, prevent bullying of lower ranked killers. But IMO it’s better to get bullied once every 15 games than wait an hour for a match.
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I can tell you this: no.
Game balancing has nothing to do with shortage.
It's not fun playing Killer at red ranks most times anyway because everyone tries to finish gens in 2 minutes and if you don't find someone instantly into the match, say goodbye, even with Ruin.
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I would really hope for this not to be the case honestly. I don't see how swf is so intimidating to people that they would just stop playing killer. I'm playing at red ranks and enjoying the game.
I do still believe that DBD was never meant to be a competitive game. And it still isn't that much. The problem is that online games nowadays seemingly need to be at least somewhat competitive in order to not die, because gaming has become really big and there are so many people that just take games way too seriously. It's either win or go crazy for some people. That's just my view on this though.
I do think the next step BHVR needs to take is to buff solo survivors in numerous ways so they get most of the inormation swf survivors have, and then buff killers in different aspects, those aspects that have been made weaker due to survivors having more information, and buffing the killers who struggle with swf survivors at the moment.
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There has always been a large number of SWF at high ranks and I don't see that being the reason behind a lack of killers.
IMO, Ruin's long term effect is becoming more apparent with survivor's more actively going for Great Skill Checks instead of just hitting a skill check. Decreasing the survivor objective time even more. Quick matches aren't fun for either side and being forced into using Ruin puts off a lot of killers.
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Killers are still scared of SWF even though the majority of them doesnt tryhard like those redrank killers with their ebonys and OP Addons. They wouldnt even understand that they would get done in by solo players ######### just better skilled. Also killers are highly sulky to any kind of change which doesnt benefit them. Survivor are just adapt to changes, while killer quit. Looks like mental problems on killer sides.
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Survivors are saints
Killers are #########
Got it. 👍
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Swf has advantanges compared to solo, especially with comms. That will never change. Anything a solo team can do, a swf will do it better.
That fact has nothing to do with with any actual ingame killer-survivor interactions.
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Otz is not representative of all killers! If every killer was Otz they would eliminate all the killer perks except for Monstrous Shrine and Mad Grit. Just because Otz (or any other streamer/youtuber) does well with something does not mean it's broken! Not all killers are Otzs and not all survivors are No0b3s.
SWF is all over not because it's needed to beat killers, but because it makes it easier to do so. BHVR has pretty much said that they're going to try and bring solo players up to SWF levels of info and coordination and then balance killers around that. SWF is a problem, not a symptom or a solution.
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That is not at all what I said. Please read it again, and answer correctly.
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Don't bother there is no use.
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From my experience playing this game (Im just rank 7 (and a Bill main ;]), Ive come to the conclusion that its down to RNG how good the survivor or killer is in the match. What realm you get, what map you get, what variations of the map (pallet, building, hill and etc. spawns). If the killer is smart enough, he can counter what the survivors are doing. If the survivors are smart enough, they can counter what the killer is doing. The game requires a lot of forethought, and the killer is given more forethought than the survivors, being able to see items, characters, and (before 3.4) ranks and levels. Both the killer and survivors are meant to adapt to the others play style to kill or survive. Both sides have big downsides and big upsides. However, I have never reached red ranks but I still also experience long queues even at 7.
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How come so many are shitting on tru3 and then start shilling some other streamer like gospel the very next sentence.
Oh and just to spite those survivors: " noormal killers arent playing like [INSERT STREAMER HERE]"
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Most due to his personality. I don't have an issue with him. But he can be, or at least come of as arrogant. He also rarely acknowledges he made a mistake. He always blames his loses on swf or game mechanics. That's why, rightly, or wrongly, people give him #########.
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Personally I've quit playing killer because half the games maps actively hinder half the games killers. Seems any time I try to play Huntress, Nurse, Spirit, Hag I end up on Hawkins, Ormond, Yamaoka's, Theatre.
Getting any one of those maps as a non m1 killers is practically a loss in my experience. Also doesn't help that the game sounds like it's underwater.
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Who cares about how some low-tier streamer plays killer? Does this guy speak for the whole community?
Didn't think so.
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Yeah people have to finish gens asap before killer starts slugging and tunneling survivors. And then no one can get to the loops, etc.
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One consistent thing I've noticed in forums is how different the experience of red ranks and lesser players tends to be on the same issues. I was playing SWF last night - we have been playing about a month now - and we were getting absolutely destroyed match after match.
Maybe balancing issues are so difficult or impossible for the devs to manage because there's no data set that's consistent enough across all ranks of the player base. I don't know. I do know that, on occasions when I'm playing with 2 other friends who suck as bad as I do but we're joined by a red rank survivor and killer, the advantage swings back to us. IE one good survivor is often enough to put the killer on his heels even if that survivor has to carry the rest of the team.
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I am in red ranks and we get destroyed more times than not. We have a finally turned green rank, a couple of purples, and a few reds. None of us are epic loopers. Some are terrible. We have a guy that misses skill checks all the time. I think only one guy runs DS, though more us are running BT. The devs nerfed SWF groups by having it go by the highest rank survivor instead of the average and killers still dodge SWF when I'd wager most groups are similar with ranks all over the place.
And I play all killers in red ranks too. Win some and lose some, but it's not super hard for killer unless you're sweating hard for that 4k. I just want bp, 4 stacks of bbq, and a fun game. Pips are nice too, but not really necessary.
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So you are going to use the best Trapper player in the game as an example? Great reasoning there.
Seriously though are you playing Killer against Red Ranks yourself? If so, can you record the results of all of your past 16 games so we can see how well you do as Killer in 2019?
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I'm sorry but you must be wearing blinders if you think killer have not been buffed to hell over the past year or so while survivors have been nerfed to hell at the same time (everything from pallets to healing) .
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Killers still are underpowered and it's boring to play killer at red rank because all you play there are sweats. Survivors just need to do gens and that makes it so the survivors can escape easily. Theres a reason why killers camp and tunnel, it's so hard to get more than 1 kill at red ranks
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Otz plays this game for a living. People like that should not be who is used to argue things are in a good spot. Do you play the game for a living. Does the OP? Probably not.
If the cues are had for survivor it means there aren't enough killers. So OP is obviously not in the minority if there are less killers.
Post edited by Kabu on3 -
Well I don't see how the game is not balanced if otz can succeed greatly as killer. It's probably that killer only appeals to people of a special type (maybe just a little sadistic) and people of other types just can't handle the pressure of having to be constantly brutally smacking and hooking survivors. Either that or people like playing with their friends (Why would anyone do that?).
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Dude, what did you not get that Otz plays the game for a living? He is NOT the average player. Not even close.
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The average player shouldn't be rank 1 (Don't tell that to survivors though lmao)
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since this is similar to another thread im just gonna copy and paste my response
if you are talking about red ranks, there is NO incentive for killers at red ranks other than stress. you play perfectly or you lose. for survivor? it gets super easy, one person needs to have 1 good chase with the killer and the game is pretty much over most of the time. red rank killers (like myself) will just get to rank 1 then de rank, im in the process of this atm. killer Q's at red ranks are INSTANT. but like I said there is no reason to be a red rank killer other than stress or youtube/twitch content. because at red ranks the IMBALANCE in the game is VERY clear
until 2 things happen, this will remain a problem
- give us a reason to be a red rank killer (reward or something)
- balance the game better
now we have come a long way since 2016, but there is still a lot of imbalance in the game. so until things change, red rank survivors will have longer Q's since not very many people want to deal with red rank games
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that's a streamer, you know they get stream snipers that want their time of fame, so they don't play like usual. now if he did it while his stream was OFF and recorded gameplay of multiple games under the same thing then I believe we would see a different picture
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Its simple. Most people dont want to play the same killers over and over at red ranks. Most killers dont want to deal with a higher percentage of stressful games at red ranks.
Survivors can defend not having any adjustments to SWF. Survivors can ask for nerfs to the higher tier killers because they are unfun to play against. But then they got to realize as its being shown at red ranks, the majority of killers are finding it unfun to play as killer or less fun to play as killer. So, Survivors will have to put up with longer queue times because of the nerfs, the unviable low tier killers and the SWF stress. Just how it is.
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You're some of the survivor mains that gives bad names to all of us. Shame on you, killer is very difficult.
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You're listing off all the bad things in the past that were changed, but omitting all the bad things that are still currently in the game. It makes you come off as disingenuous to the topic.
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It just makes lower ranked killers play against red rank SWF groups is all it does atm lol.
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They haven't buffed killer! WTH is this post about? A red rank SWF is no fun for killer unless you were maybe nurse. They nerfed her and made her unfun. The devs are stubborn and have no sympathy for killer. Now you sleep in your bed for crying so much.
When 3 gens can pop before the 1st person is hooked, there is something wrong with the game. There is no fun at high ranks for killer. Period.
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The killers weren't able to see ranks and lvls, that was info shared amongst your teammates.
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Glad to see other players do it too. I play both im rank 2 in survivor and rank 4 in killer and if i can get 2 to 3 kills as killer on average with no perks or add ons then i think we have more baby killers than anything in high ranks. I honestly think survivors need more buffs considering how easy killer is and have always been.
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Bait? This must be bait....
"How easy killer has always been and survivors need buffs." Just.... No. You're not helping at all.
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It’s because SWF gets matched with the highest player... the devs should do what siege does lately where the MMR needs to be a certain distance apart.
i.e. Reds can only swf with reds/purples, purples can only swf with reds/purples/greens... etc.
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What I see is that killer is in such a ridiculous OP state that there's no point to soloq. SWF places pressure on lobbies trying to sync up a 4man game placing pressure on game find times.
When you see games at lower tiers its an absolute trainwreck where new soloq players are getting completely decimated making ~5kBP per game.
It's been years and years of survivor nerfs but we get a round of killer nerfs to try and get this game back to 50% kills and the killer community goes bananas.
Before PC went to dedicated servers Id see 2/3:1 survivor:killer ratio.
The issue isn't that we don't have enough killers.
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Pallet vaccums still exist, not to the extent that they used to teleport you in front of the pallet but instead now delaying a pallet drop can vaccum you back into the pallet giving the killer the illusion that you made an unsafe play and ran past the pallet, which in some instances this can be sorta BS because I've seen players delay this to the max range.
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Compared to release? Killer absolutely is easier in 2019.
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Before, you just had to 4k to double pip. Now it's much harder to gain ranks as killer.
I play 50/50, prefer killer, consider myself better killer than survivor, still my survivor rank is higher !
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The short answer on the question of the thread is:
Because there is nothing to gain, besides headaches.
Headaches, because of a rising toxicity, because of dominating 4xswfs and well performing coordinated survivor groups.
Headaches that you maybe play a killer who can't handle the red ranks like the famous 3, or maybe famous 2 since the last nurse patch. Don't have read the nurse changes yet, but when I see the forum threads in this forum... They seem to pretty unhappy.
Some might say "then play Hillbilly!!!" and while then another killer would make the game more boring, because more of the same killer (yay...) in the same ranks, it would not make me happy.
Why should someone play with a character he dislikes, in a toxic enviroment, where he has a high chance to lose a match because of highly organized survivor groups, under the stress of doing your objective fast as possible, for nothing to gain?
Well besides headaches... of course.
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Just delete killers in general. Problem solved.
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I think the real question is are you still waiting in que?
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This is not rocket science. The emblem system is more lenient for survivors than it is for killers. So by the end of the season, all the average survivors who play regularly will have reached red ranks, while average killers stagnate in green/purple.
As survivor you can do allmost nothing and get away with a black pip. Getting a double pip is rare but a single pip is very easy. And you only depip if you get killed early in the match.
As killer you can give it your best and only get a black pip. Many games will start so poorly that you know its going to be a depip no matter what you do next.
So there you go. Thats why its so long to find a killer in red ranks.
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Of course there is a killer shortage, especially at red ranks. Killers have instant lobbies, survivors have to wait, doesn't matter if you are red or green. If there was no shortage, queue times would be different.
And red rank survivors are facing green and purple killers all the time.
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