Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Why do the devs wait for people to buy DLC before nerfing it?
The nerf to Oni's flick makes him no longer fun to play as. The devs didn't tell us initially that the flick was never intended and let everyone believe that it was an intended mechanic. I think the main draw to playing Oni was his really fun flick but now that it's gone there's really no point to playing him. It seems quite deceitful to not make their intention to nerf this aspect clear. Instead, they wait until people have purchased the DLC to then nerf it once they made their desired amount.
Comments
-
You answered the question yourself.
6 -
Yep, this is one of the reasons I refunded the DLC
8 -
Yeah, it's like buying a new car, but the next day the dealer comes and takes the tires back....
7 -
It was noted day one of the release under Known issues
- The Oni can rotate faster than intended with the keyboard or joystick during Demon Dash.
Which basically says it wasn't intended.
58 -
I actually asked what this meant in an earlier post when the notes were posted and never got a response.
17 -
When you make a post trying to complain at the devs and the queen herself smites you. Oof
13 -
This means you can't read.
5 -
It actually means I wanted clarification.
14 -
After doing some testing it appears turning with the mouse is significantly slower as well.
4 -
Then how about you guys NOT release a PTB until known issues that are definitely going to change the game play of a character are addressed?
I'm sure a lot of people would rather the PTB be a representation of the final product, as far as base play-ability is concerned, otherwise, all you are really doing is a fun art show. "This is what it'll look like, but don't get used to any of the game play because we aren't actually done with it."
BHVR has been at this for 3 years now and you sure as heck should know your player base by now. Name once where you actually made changes like this (regardless of how well documented you made them) that didn't blow up in your face?
16 -
It's also easier to nerf something post release than it is to buff it. That's game design 101; it's been the industry standard for a long time.
If you make something too strong but is otherwise fantastic, all you have to do usually is lower some numbers. If something is too weak though, you have to fully understand why, what's causing it, and be very specific and plan out every change, often times they are more time consuming to fix, and in general the idea is to release as closed to balanced as possible but air to the stronger rather than weaker side of things.
This is a tactic employed by some of the most renowned game developers of all time, so I am not about to begrudge BHVR for following it.
2 -
Bring it back. It honestly wasn't that broken or unfair, and now he's incredibly weak. Please let us flick with Oni again.
7 -
Then those people don't understand what the point of a TEST build is.
4 -
That's why I always buy things with shards
3 -
When they release a NEW CHAPTER version of the PTB, its not a TEST build but a showcase for the new content. They are just too lazy to come up with another Showcase Build server to they multiuse the one they have.
I bet you knew this, but wanted to white knight BHVR anyways.
4 -
well the problem is you guys not testing your updates and removing mouse flick too on accident isn't it?
0 -
So essentially same strategy all of the official documents use. Not make themselves clear from the start and earn on confusion.
Oni rotating during Demon Dash may as well mean turning ability of Dash itself and not the flick of Demon strike that actually got changed.
Thanks Miss Community Manager.
3 -
the mouse only flick is also gone. one dev said that this should still be in the game. so it must be a bug, pls notice them.
0 -
This is exactly true. If they wanted to say hey the flick that everyone is enjoying and is what makes the killer fun is NOT intended then Oni wouldn't have sold as well. They need to clearly address this especially when it's the main appeal of playing/purchasing the killer. To not do so is disingenuous.
1 -
Well that's a new one.
The Public Test Build is not a Public Test Build. Even though they constantly buff and nerf perks, addons, and powers in between testing and live, it's all just for show. Wow.
You people need to listen yourselves. You sound insane.
8 -
This is true. They should have clearly addressed that they didn't intend for the flick and it would not be in the final product. To not do so is disingenuous.
0 -
To think that players don't make a decision to purchase a killer based off PTB gameplay is just lying.
5 -
Then it's a good thing no one ever said they didn't.
2 -
This content has been removed.
-
When they put out a new Killer with a known bug they are going to change for sure, 100%, no doubt about it, why do it? Why not postpone until that issue has been fixed? That way there is zero room for people to make assumptions about the Killer.
Otherwise they are showing off a lie.
I'm saying holding off things like this would make the release much smoother. People would have a good understanding of what they are going to get.
You know most people are lazy and do not read the release notes, people just want to get in and play. They are excited for new content, want to see it, want to see the new mori, they want to know the latest lore.
Its getting to the point now however, that people do not have trust in DbD. Instead of these PBT showing off the new content and getting people charged up about it. People are becoming cynical , "why bother trying it or buying it, they'll just gut it anyways!", so instead people are starting to wait and see, and if that happens, I can't see people wasting money on the flop dlcs anymore.
So it would be for BHVR's own well being that they start and deliver what the show off. If that means having an extra PTB between show off and deliver, so that they can fine tune everything, they should do that, instead of disappointing the people who were originally stoked for new content.
1 -
The OTHER change from the PTB, specifically the pallet breaking bug, didn't blow up.
Ghostface's hotfix didn't blow up
Demogorgons hotfix (which was a straight buff to be fair) didn't blow up.
1 -
But that doesn't tell us what the intended rotation is, nor is there a compelling reason to knowingly release the killer in an unintended and MUCH more powerful state if PC players are to be believed about the reduced flick. Certain degrees of rotation are obviously not viable on paper to an experienced player. That's deceptive, unintentional or not. I get that release schedules and deadlines happen, but if all it takes is 2 weeks to tweak the killer to an intended state, just wait two weeks? Why upset the playerbase nearly every time a killer is released and performs well in PTB? If I got a free sample of food with a disclaimer that said "this flavor isn't intended" but I enjoyed it, ordered more, and then got something infinitely worse, I'd be pretty disappointed and maybe ask for a refund.
0 -
Pity i didnt do the same. Im not making a mistake of supporting this company again after all this shitshow
3 -
Thats how i felt when i bought Ash vs Evil Dead, i was ######### robbed when they nerfed MoM
0 -
Yeah it seems they like to release things overtuned because more players will purchase the DLC and then nerf it. In MoM's case there's no way the devs didnt see how powerful of a perk it was before releasing it. They needed a reason for a large number of players to buy the DLC before they gutted it.
2 -
too make more money? just what they did with MoM etc.
4 -
It's simple just wait to see the nerfed killer before buying you don't have to buy it on release
0 -
the fact they even thought MoM was a good idea is a joke
2 -
Ash and MoM are the perfect example. All players bought Ash and after 2 months; they butchered MoM to the ground. All planned from the beginning.
1 -
And from a dev herself you have it what killer is intentionally suppose to turn faster than billy quit getting mad about a exploit you clearly were abusing and blaming people and the dev team for your terrible matches you win some you lose some that’s how it goes get over it
0 -
Yeah but dead by daylight is not obligated to refund you as you just said they have a time limits and honestly this ain’t the first time so why would you be surprised it happened again we all know killers get nerfed after they hit console because the console player base dosnt get a input from the PTB considering we don’t get access so yeah when a large number of people ######### he’s too strong the nerf comes sorry you guys need a exploit to win how fair is it that your running so fast and you can just whoop 180? No that should have never been allowed the nerf is a balance nothing more nothing less
0 -
I'm so tired of threads that complain about a single nerf so a killer because seriously this doesn't kill the character at all. If m2 was just for movement and they removed the damage of it altogether it still would be pretty good because his m1 is pretty easy to hit in the rage. And honestly playing against the m2 sometimes feels pointless like it shouldn't be easy to use in the first place so it's fine tbh
0 -
The most fun you will have with a Killer DLC is immediately following it's release, before any changes are made. But these fixes were fast.
3 -
Okay so I actually made this account just to ask if there were any plans to fix Oni's terrible dash turn.. And I was right. Though I agree that if he has a bug you don't just wait 2 weeks after to fix it that's bait and switch so to speak. Though I am glad because even at 18/17 every Oni killer used the fast spin and killed most of the survivors. Most can't do the full 180 but it's enough to basically wreck the teams. Not saying that the survivors were good they weren't, but the bug was so easily exploited that every game I played with Oni they exploited something that you can't exactly counter unless your able to hide or vault etc. From 18 to 11 every single Oni I have faced exploited. But yes it's bait and switch.. But at this point don't we just expect for the overpowered killers to get a few weeks to a month of being crazy so they can sell more of the DLC? Because I do.
0 -
I...what? The crux of what I said was: if they knew that the intended state was essentially far from what would be advertised on the PTB and actual initial release, they should have delayed the PTB and release. Did you mean to reply to someone else?
0 -
I agree. Oni is a fun character to play as, but it earned more popularity specially at higher ranks because of that flick.
Devs knew way earlier that he would get nerfed, but if they did it during the PTB it would mean less sales.
It's not the first time though, it happened with a lot of killers and even survivor perks. Money is money.
I'm glad I bought it using shards, I have enough to no having to buy a DLC ever again.
0 -
Literally was noted that it was a bug. Plus good riddance. Killer is annoying af and just slugs survivors all day at 10000% MS. Busted killer. Cant even hide csusd the dumb blood mechanic.
1 -
judging by the statements the dev's have made the controls on PC are not working as intended anymore, mouse control was meant to be unchanged but it is clearly not by anyone who has played him
0 -
As mentioned I don’t like dead by daylight on pc I’m better on console than pc so to me anything that involves pc I don’t really care about tbh
0 -
Instead of wasting money you've wasted time
0 -
And when the devs nerfed MoM people got upset but they never stopped playing him or refunded the DLC. You people are so selfish and greedy.
0 -
selfish and greedy? what do you even mean by that?
2 -
*Laughs in Mettle of Man*
2 -
It just never stops, doesn't it.
People who do not read patch and release notes complaining about stuff in an ignorant way.
PTB literally means Public TEST build.
It is common in every game that has a PTB server, that everything you see there is still able to change. And often it changes radically.
It was a bug to begin with and it was noted so in the initial PTB release. It was transparent and clear that it will change.
Sometimes to fix a bug it is helpful to collect more bug reports under real circumstances.
All your complaining can be broken down to you guys not being able to read and your ignorance towards game design patterns.
Aside from this bug people like you always complain with every damn change there is that did not work in favour of that one character you like and I experience it in EVERY competitive game. It doesn't matter to you if nerfs are justified. It doesn't matter to you if win rates are getting out of hand and the nerf is needed. People like you don't give a ######### about the game. You only want to nourish your narcissism.
That things are released stronger rather than weaker already got explained to you by somebody else, but again you only read what you want to read to not disturb your premature childish narcissistic rage.
So again: In most competitive games these days things get released stronger rather than weaker, because it is easier this way and takes less man hours to fix and is therefore faster and beneficial towards everybody. It is not about grabbing money.
That it is especially hard to balance things in DbD should not be a surprise to you vegetables, because it is asynchronous.
And no I am not "white knighting" the devs.
I am just giving you facts and telling you that you behave like little ignorant children and that it annoys me!
1 -
They only want things for themselves. They don't care what happens to the other side of the game.
0
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
