http://dbd.game/killswitch
Otz and tru3
So I'm curious if anyone has watched their 2 videos responding to each other and if so what you're thoughts are personally I thought true did a better job of defending his point
Comments
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I'm not that invested in the situation but to be honest Otz's video hit the nail on the head. Any Killer can do well, He played Trapper without Ruin and got similar results, That doesn't mean that trappers a powerhouse now.
True's pretty stubborn in his opinions, I think it's an ego thing but I hope he can realize that just because a killer does well doesn't make them stronger than other killers just stronger than the survivors you faced in that particular trial.
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Who cares? Nothing they say is going to affect anything in the game, people will still run ruin/pgtw at high ranks regardless of what some stuck-up streamers say about it.
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Tru3 is such a fake I stopped watching him after I hit red ranks as killer. Otz gets what the game is about.
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I don't think there was really one doing better or worse. What it came down to is they simply have different definitions of viable.
Which is the same reason a lot of people on the forums get into arguments over "viable killers".
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I don't think that's quite right.
Tru3 is a very talented player. The problem is, he mixes his own ability with the Killer's power.
Otz is almost as talented, coming from a similar gaming background. Otz really gets the core of the game.
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Right I was just too lazy to think about what I type. Well put.
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I think Tru3 made some good points in his reply, but for the most part I agree more with Otz on this. I think Tru3 is making unsubstantiated claims and being really stubborn about them; when I don't even think he really meant them entirely when he said them- but doesn't want to sound foolish by dropping it now.
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Like which statements?
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Just curious is your screen name an Aesop refrence
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Also I agree
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I mean it's two very above-average DBD streamers trying to sort out the difference between viability and a top-tier killer. One used data gathered with mostly a pink/purple addon combo, and the other used his main with yellow/brown addons. I call it a wash myself. Wraith is viable, but definitely not even top five (Nurse, Spirit, Ghostface, Freddy, Billy, probably even Huntress above him), and even less of a top-tier killer if you give the other top killers their best addons. Wraith's playstyle depends on bodyblocking, which isn't incredibly easy or reliable unless you're pretty good at predicting where survivors go and know how to position yourself correctly, and for the average player, they'd get WAY more mileage out of another killer (specifically Ghostface if you must play sneakily).
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I have to agree with you. Otz is the one who really got me to look at the game in a different way then I used to and he pointed me into the direction of fungoose and I've been enjoying killer a lot more ever since.
But yes otz hit the nail on the head with this discussion.
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Putting a warning right now on this - discuss the points of the videos freely, DO NOT INSULT EITHER PERSON!
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To be fair, Otz is a HUGE brain trapper, maybe one of the best out there. Trapper isn't in the meta, but since he mains him, he augments the killer's abilities pretty substantially. I'm not nearly the same level killer as these two, but you could watch my gameplay and, in a vacuum, think that Hag is OP because she used to be my main. I definitely outperform my Billy, Freddy, and Ghostface matches when I play Hag, but she simply works better for me because my eyes are getting older and my mechanics suck. My point is, some people make strategic killers look amazing, but it's just how they play versus another typical killer, or like in my case, we're forced to play differently because we suck :)
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I like them both but they both got almost straight 4ks for 5 hours straight. Like, would you wanna play survivor against them?
"Hmm yes this killer seems to cause slight difficulty."
"Yes yes, but despite all these 4ks there's a chance of a 5k if we play hard enough."
They can do them but they can play over there. Away from me. Little further. 500 more miles. Little more. Okay good.
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I think people shouldn’t put such heavy stock into what streamers say and form their own opinions and thoughts first. There’s such a creepy undercurrent of people just repeating and following what streamers say like mindless sheep and following what they do like some weird cult. Like seriously, Otz or Tru3 says something and then mysteriously everyone else starts repeating it. Or like in Otz’s case, he just smiles and laughs and people go “uwu marry me Otzichan uwu!”
These are just regular people playing in front of a screen, they don’t have some magical authority because they play to an audience and they might be good at the game.
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You make a good point but I don't know what that has to do with their discussion
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don't forget though that Otz is a HARD trapper main, so he knows all the ins and outs etc. where Tru3 just picked up the wraith and developed a play style for his stealth
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he did a test day of ONLY yellow addons recently and he did just as fine, he talked about it in his reply to otz's video
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I'm not try to be a fence sitter, but I think they both made valid points. Mainly because they are both coming from different perspectives of what viable and a "win" is.
Otz considers a killer getting a 3-4k a win. Whereas Tru3 believes pipping/ranking up after a match is a win. Now its easy to understand why killing most or all of the survivors is a win for the killer. But on the other hand I really do understand Tru3's point by saying if a killer "won" then the game should reward them for that. If you get a 3-4k and only safety pip then he can't wrap his head around how that is a win if the game is not rewarding you for victory.
On the other hand you could simply say the pipping/ranking system for the game is flawed and needs adjusting. A lot of players do feel that way. But either way it was great to see two strong Dbd personalities have a civil and informative discussion. If only everyone in Dbd could be like that.
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I agree with you to an extent, but players like tru3 and Otz who really try to play both sides and see multiple viewpoints carry more weight with their opinions IMO. Like you can just throw a football around for fun with your buddies but still listen if Patrick Mahomes teaches you how to throw a perfect spiral on TV. It doesn't inherently ruin the fun of an activity to pay attention to the top tier of said activity when they speak, just like you said, you can't take their word as truth. You should still listen though and form your own opinions instead of sticking your head in the dirt like an ostrich though :)
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People aren't valuing their opinions because they're streamers, they are valuing their opinions because they have put vastly more hours into the game at the top tiers than the majority of the player base which leads them to having a much more experienced opinion than most.
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Not sure what that has to do with the points being made. I already thought killers were extremely weak in this game long before I saw true and quite frankly I'm not a fan of true because he constantly complains about it. When I watch him I'm just like YES KILLERS SUCK WE ALL KNOW . My favorite dbd streamer is monto and from what I can tell he doesn't get involved in any of the killer viability non sense he's. Just fun to watch lol
But true made very valid points 150 and 140 movement speed is nothing to sniff at. And that's not even counting if he ran a meme/pwyf build he could make him even faster the pressure with that kind of speed would be crazy
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I can't handle players who complain all game. Sometimes I can't even watch Otz because he gets too angry or his chat is being even more toxic than usual. Monto complains sometimes too but he gets over it fast, he's just being emotional reactive and entertaining.
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That wraith build is strong tbh... and it doesn’t need a nerf.
It’s definitely got more merit than many other lower tier killer combos for how fast you can pick it up and the playstyle is simple to follow.
I had thought of a combo with myers with that build but after looking at vanity mirror’s movement speed decrease it’s not worth...
my idea was: Vanity Mirror + Dead Rabbit...
Thanato, Sloppy, Ruin, M&A (instead of nurses because vanity mirror can do the job).
That was assuming Vanity mirror‘s movement penalty was only 5% not 7%...
If that build didn’t work from the 110% killer pov then sloppy, ruin, nemesis and PWYF and same add-ons. (12 meter TR still isn’t bad).
But vanity mirror needs a buff... bring that movement penalty down a tad :P.
Myers might not have wraith’s speed but the idea was trading that for wall-hacks and the faster vaulting.
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Please have Otz buffed and Tru nerfed.
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I'm admittedly biased towards Otz regardless of opinion of stances, so please bear that in mind as you read it.
I do think Otz had the stronger argument, mostly because I think Tru3 is conflating his personal skill with the killer's power. Extremely solid killer fundamentals help you compensate for a killer's weaknesses, and Wraith is a very "standard" killer (please note, I love playing Wraith, but I don't believe he's top 5). Because Tru3 is so solid in his ability to play killer, he does very well. But that doesn't mean the standard person can take Tru3's build into the game and 4k reliably against people of good survivor skill either.
In addition I think Otz' definition of a win is more accurate, especially in what these forums say is the win. "Rank doesn't matter" - how often do we say this? If that's the case, then Otz is more on the nose on what designates a win. If you get Brutal Killer but 4k...you still walk away feeling like you won, even though the game said "meh" to your play.
Otz did respond to Tru3's belief that he slugged in a lot of his test games, Trapper suffers a bit in the ranking system, and Otz explained that a bit, and that was one of Tru3's main counterpoints to Otz's 16 game Trapper run.
Where I think Tru3 does have a good point is the fact he doesn't main Wraith and did well, while Otz played his main and did well. I think Otz should have played someone he thought was underrated that also wasn't Trapper to get his data, playing as optimally as possible as he did with the Trapper games. That would've been the best comparison. That being said, I don't think that undermines my point that Tru3's killer fundamentals being so strong benefited him immensely in trying out the Wraith run. Give that setup to a less godlike killer player, and I highly, highly doubt they'd perform as well as Tru3 did in a similar environment.
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Otz is already op 😂
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Um links?
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Trues original
Otz response to true
Trues response back
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true was literally using pink addons his opinion is invalid.
wraith is not that good.
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I enjoy watching both of them - They represent what the community should be, imo.
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Except he just did stream running nothing but yellow add ons and did just as good, soooooo?
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I’m a fan of both. I like when Otz said that Tru3 found his killer main. This is the nail on the head. The guy definitely adores stealth killers and he says as much.
I think Otz is wrong about the Iridescent Heads. I saw some users say it was unsubstantiated, but legit Tru3talent won 16 rounds straight. 4k and pip with Wraith. That’s evidence of success. Any map. Ruin may or may not go down early.
Otz’s point was there are Huntress mains who, if they use Iri, don’t lose. I don’t think that would be true. I have watched some of these great Huntress mains, Umbra and Zubatlel come to mind. They DC without thinking if they spawn on certain maps. That’s why Huntress isn’t considered top five. Map dependency. I think Tru3 showed his Wraith didn’t have that issue and in fact I don’t think I’ve ever seen him DC.
Post edited by Steel_Eyed on0 -
winning against bad survivor doesnt mean that the killer or player behind is good/strong. when will you learn that. also he is cherry picking his lobbys often and doesnt upload his bad games to youtube. should say everything.
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His stream that was referenced was literally just all back to back matches. Are you saying literally ever match he was in was ALL bad survivors
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STREAMING
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ofc he got bad survivors - most of the games. it depends on the map aswell tho.
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If most survivors are bad how is the game survivor sided?
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So if he does consistently well with Wraith then the survivors must be bad. Sound logic there.
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Very sound
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Ok boomer.
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Ok sounder.
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only because most of them cant play the game well doesnt mean the game is killer sided.
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In the end, I wonder how this situation would change if the devs had a specific win condition in mind and adjusted the emblem system to rank player skill according to that win condition.
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Is wraith top tier? No, he isn't but Tru3 thinks he is. Am I wrong here?
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It's sad to see so many people believe Tru3 over Otz
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I've only seen a bit of the debate and this just kinda goes with what I've always thought which is basically that a person who puts enough time into ANY killer can make that killer viable and have success.
If you were to just look at forums and whatnot, Wraith is this awful bottom tier killer. But then you have someone out here who is like, nah I can 4k on any map, Ruin up or not, doesn't matter.
Same for the other guy using Trapper who again, the forums would have you believing is bottom tier trash. But this person is playing in rank 1 successfully with them.
So either A: The killer is bad and these players are gods, or B: The killer is fine and the people not having success just need to play more, practice more, and get better.
A truly trash killer would be trash no matter who played them. The fact that someone can do well with them is evidence that they are usable at least (if you don't think viable is the right word)
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