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Are the Archive challenges toxic?
So I’ve been grinding out a lot of these challenges, and I must say I’m getting lots is salty feedback from players on both sides.
Getting basement hooks with Monstrous shrine challenge, had all of them quit before i could hook just to spite me.
Flashlight saves got me tunneled.
Havent done NOED one yet but I’m sure that’ll be a doozy.
Feels to me like a lot of these challenges either trigger the recipients or the user, one way or another.
Cant wait til level 4 comes out..
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They're not toxic, you're just playing the game how it's intended. Hook people with MS in basement for example, hell, even if you didn't have MS and that challenge you're still allowed to hook in the basement.
People think to have fun, they need to win. They need to not be 'bullied' by anything to have fun. If DS, Flashlights, good loopers, basement hookers, etc are in their game then they feel they can't win and won't have fun. They just need to suck it up. They're probably doing all those same challenges, so they're also hypocrites.
Some of them are easier than I initially thought too...
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It’s not til tier 3 that I’ve started getting salty messages for pushing the challenges, but ultimately you’re right. People don’t like losing and someone’s gotta lose.
Some of them are frustrating though..
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Anything triggers people. I just ignored them or explained my reason why, some understood some still yelled. Like how Venoxxie said "They're not toxic, you're just playing the game how it's intended". You are bound to do the challenges slowly over time.
For me the Blind save was so hard. I can never do that. I got mine by a Fire Cracker though.
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Some of them
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The challenges aren't toxic all.
People are the problem. If they can find a way to get people out of the game, the toxicity would disappear.
You'll never enjoy an online game until you learn to tune out complainers.
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do you even know what the word toxic means?
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There are some that definitely encourage some jerkwad playstyles, but nothing inherently toxic as long as you aren't acting toxic about it. I felt so bad running NoED I felt obligated to apologize in post-game chat, so if you're really tired of it, just be honest and say you're running a challenge and that it's nothing personal. I never got anyone being too unreasonable, just a few people who said they didn't have very much fun, which is totally fair.
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Towards the players of this game, yes. cough*tome 4*cough Devs are pretty toxic
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I just did the sacrifice 2 survivors with NOED challenge.. I feel bad..
I need to dominate the match, and let them finish the last gen by being friendly, and betray and slug all survivors with NOED and then open the exit gate myself... I need to say it's not fun experience from survivors side... or from my side as well
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Haha that’s brutal, blame the challenges tho..
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I got two survivors to allow me to sacrifice them. We just farmed the ######### out of the map first.
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No but it does feel that way on some, however if your insta hook for the saves things like that I'd say yes.
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Hooking people in the basement = toxic. Lmao, survivors these days. Killers should just stand in the corner and let them escape.
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The basement is supposed to be fing scary. Things like BT/DS make it so much less scary but as a survivor you should know not to be anywhere near the basement because that is where people go to die. I like that about this game.
Killers using the basement is a strategy and any competent survivor can instantly realize where the basement is during a match because there's typically only 2 places it can spawn on a map.
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There was a noed challenge? I don't even remember
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The answer is no. No function of the game is toxic. No addon is toxic. No item is toxic. No perk is toxic. No emote is toxic.
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I like your point of view, unfortunately few share it.
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Eh the only one I feel could be considered toxic is noed, but that depends on how you do it. You can play well enough that there's only 2-3 people remaining after gens are done and play normal, do so well you have to let your victims do the gens for you to finish up, or facecamp out your 1-2 people before noed activates and finish off the other two.
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Any tips for using the firecracker? I can't get the flashlight save for the life of me and I am almost out of flashlights. I think I still have a few firecrackers I can try.
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I find it best when you body block the killer sadly. I right to block the hook. Then right before the killer hits me i release the cracker. I take a hit but the gets blinded and so do you.
It to a couple of tries to get it right. The problem is knowing which hook they go to, getting there before killer and then if the killer looks up last second.
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It's not a point of view. It's a fact. It's not rationally or logically deniable, and can not be argued with any substance. At all. Anyone who doesn't believe this is believing something that is incorrect. It's not up for debate, nor is it a matter of opinion. Period.
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Well I completely disagree, so..
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The problem is when all the survivors/killers want to do the challenges, so every other match becomes a basement game or have 2-3 survivors with flashlights/keys.
After doing so many matches against basement builds, I would DC too if I was being hauled to the basement knowing I wouldn't escape.
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Well, you would be wrong. Your opinion is incorrect. What you are doing is like being a flat-earther. If you think any item, perk, addon, offering, cosmetic etc in the game is toxic, you need to uninstall. All due respect.
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I like how you compare what he is doing to be a flat earthers, but than say that his opinion is incorrect.
Also there are things in a game that are toxic, if there weren't than why was old legion changed? Why was the brand-new part changed? Why were the insta-heals re-worked?
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Insta heals weren't toxic. Were they overpowered? Yes. That's why they were reworked. Overpowered =! toxic. You not liking something =! toxic. However, the assertion that using something the game provides as an actual feature is toxic is incorrect. There's no version of this where you win the debate. Toxic doesn't mean what you think it means.
As for the Legion - it was an overlooked exploit (big surprise! BHVR overlooked something! POGCHAMP!). It was not a feature designed to be in the game. By your logic, the Oni flick was toxic. So just top.
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Well one toxic can mean what a want to mean. And two maybe those weren't the best examples, but a lot of changes that are added are based a lot on the fun factor. And something being toxic usually means it's not fun for the other side.
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No. Toxic isn't up for interpretation. You not liking something does not translate to it being toxic. It's already got a meaning, and you don't get to magically make up your own at your convenience to justify not liking something. You can not like something and not have it be toxic. There's plenty of things I don't like in this game. Not all of them toxic. It doesn't mean I get to call those things toxic just because I don't like them.
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You're not wrong, but he was probably due a bit more respect than you gave him there.
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I meant it, though. That shoddy definition that "everything I hate is toxic" is one of the worst things happening in this community. It's one of the things that breeds the most toxicity.
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I totally agree, and it is something more people need to be educated about. People are just more likely to be open to changing their views if they don't feel like they're being attacked, that's all.
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I feel ya; and to be fair, I did try to explain it, despite my stern demeanor.
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It can be a difficult topic to tackle constructively. No one likes being told they're wrong.
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I don't mind so much. If I'm wrong, I like to learn why and I come out of it wiser for it. :D
Either way, yeah, my point is, barring blatant overlooked exploits by BHVR, things in the game are not toxic. It's okay not to like them, but that doesn't make them toxic in any sense. Glad we're on the same page :)
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I appreciate the thought but his words don’t bother me in the slightest, and I still completely disagree.
Just because he doesn’t view something as toxic doesn’t mean it isn’t.
I could debate this all day but I will never change my opinion and he won’t change his, and that’s fine.
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Actually, in this case, that's exactly what it means. The use of an item, addon, perk, pallet etc whatever, in this game, is not toxic unless it's certifiably classified as an exploit by the devs. It's not a matter of opinion - and you thinking these things, any of them, are toxic, is incorrect. Contrary to what you "believe", you are absolutely wrong. Those things are not toxic. It's not "just because I say it", it's just a fact. Toxic is an attitude. Toxic is the nasty things said in post game chat. The false reports. The nasty steam user names. Toxic is labeling everything you hate toxic.
You can continue to live in your little imaginary world where you write your own pretend dictionary, but here on earth, it's not toxic. You could debate it all day - you could hire a high priced lawyer to do it for you - you'd still be wrong. Not liking something doesn't make it toxic. THINKING that way IS toxic, and only adds to the toxicity. THAT is something there's evidence of.
Give up.
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Isn't up for interpretation? That makes no sense as I can give the word any meaning I want to. Like tunneling and face camping were given their definition from the players.
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A couple of them are a bit toxic but as long as people try to get them done in one match i feel like we won't have a lot of problems with them expensively the ones like the monstrous shrine one, the noed one, and the flashlight save one/ the blinding the killer one. They seem to be the most annoying ones.
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I understand where you're coming from, but that's not really how language works. You can't just take a word and give it "any meaning you want to". Words mean things. Tunneling and facecamping were words made up by members of the gaming community which eventually became widely adopted. Even in that case, there's at least a generally accepted definition - I can't just say that it's "facecamping" when a survivor stands near an exit gate because it's up for interpretation and I can use it to mean anything I want to.
Toxic behaviour isn't exclusively a gaming thing, it's a term that's been in wide psychological use for a long while now, and it has an established meaning. Someone can't just start using it to mean something else and act like their definition is equally as valid as the established one. All that does is foster confusion and sap words of any value they might once have had as tools for communication.
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That is absolutely how language works. Oxford and Merriam-Webster add words/change the definitions of words CONSTANTLY because language is an ever-evolving social construct. That being said, toxicity is defined currently as an extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful quality (Merriam-Webster). This, applied to a gaming context, can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. You could say taunting, even in-game like Fortnite's dances, has a very negative effect on the social interactions in a game, but also has a part of gamesmanship to it. I would argue then, the line between gamesmanship and truly toxic behavior is when it's done and if it's still in the context of a competitive match, or if it's rubbing in an already sure win. Any intentional attempt to make your opponent feel terrible about themselves is definitely malicious, and then falls under the definition of toxicity. That isn't inherently tied to any mechanic in-game, but certain tools in the wrong hands can enable greater manipulation of an opponent's confidence/expectations, which definitely amplifies the effects of trolling/BMing.
That being said, am I complaining about toxicity? Absolutely not. I loved playing Dark Souls, whose devs openly said to be as toxic as possible while invading and wanted that to be a part of the challenge of their world. I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a bit about the definition of that word. It certainly has in the past had more real-world/malignant implications on the level of mental abuse, and maybe the term will be further evolved for gaming over the years.
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We're in complete agreement about the definition of toxic - all I've ever said is that there's no such thing as a toxic game mechanic, just toxic behaviour.
Also yes, while language is constantly evolving and definitions of words do change over time (something I never contested), that doesn't mean that the definition of a word at any given point is totally open to interpretation. The process of how a language evolves is very complicated, and it doesn't happen by one person just deciding that they're going to ignore what a word means and make up their own definition because words can mean whatever you want them to. When I said "that's not how language works", that's what I was referring to.
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Yeah, but language evolves because we discuss what it means enough until we can all loosely agree to some base concept, at which point it finally hits the dictionary. I just don't want folks to feel scared to share their opinion on this, because some people really like to gatekeep who gets to have an opinion and whose opinions are valid. Toxicity is definitely overused and for the wrong reasons a lot of the time, but I don't think people should be scared to use the term referring to gaming either. That being said, I'll throw my own idea of it into conversations, and with some luck, people will agree with us and stop ragequitting every time they see a flashlight or as soon as NoED lights up 😁
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I understand about the gatekeeping thing, which is why I suggested to the first guy that he ease up a little. He's not wrong about the fact that there is no such thing as toxic game mechanics, though, and allowing that idea to be perpetuated is only hurting the community in the long run.
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i personally disliked only the noed one - because i feel bad for using this perk (it's cheap imo. i hate personally using it) i even did it in a very toxic way if you want to know ... probably my second worst crime in my all play time of dbd. because i wanted it done in a single try, i played "badly" on purpose so noed would activate in the end. i had killed 2 at this point. then i slugged the second last guy for a while and waited the last guy to do the final gen but he didn't. so i pretended to farm with them, slugged them, opened the door and killed them (with noed active obviously). oof. i got sweaty in real life i felt so bad.
i don't think you doing a challenge can necessarily be toxic by itself. because everyone is doing this stuff for the archives. however, as my example above ^ you can be a dick if you want while doing them.
one huntress facecamped me for blinding her at a pallet (flash challenge). people see different things as toxic.
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If we’re gonna dive into the specifics of what’s toxic, then at its core none of the mechanics of the game are ‘toxic’ on their own. But they can certainly be used to create toxic gameplay for one side or the other.
4 flashlights are fine, but 4 players following the killer around and griefing them with flashlights? That can be toxic.
Same goes for a few other items and perks etc, that’s the point I’m trying to discuss. Doesn’t mean I dislike them or want them removed.
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Too toxic
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I got it! Thanks for the tip, it worked just like you said it would! You rock!
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I feel like most of them can be done in non-toxic ways. Like the NOED challenge took me maybe two games. I made sure everyone was on death hook by the time gens were done. Let someone open a door while I had one slugged and was chasing a second one. Got the two required kills easily.
Also the Spine Chill challenge. People keep talking about playing immersed and just waiting for hatch, but I'm not a dick so I can't play that way. I did gens and I just waited until I got a match where I could get out unhooked.
So a lot of times, it's more about the people than the challenges themselves
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Glad it worked! Also i re-read what i wrote. I didn't even understand the first part. I had to re-read it a couple of times. More props for you!
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