We're not gonna act like gen speeds are fine as is right?
(Hey guys, if you're coming here now scroll down and take a look at the last 2 paragraphs of this post, the top 2 paragraphs I admit are flawed because I didn't take certain things into account but I don't want the meaningful things I said to go unnoticed. thx for understanding)
I don't like using videos on forums but honestly I think if I'm going to use a video now would be a good time. It's by Tru3 love him or hate him, it's not really about him though as he didn't do anything spectacular, just did gens and saved.
If you didn't watch the video fine but tru3 on multiple occasions was destroyed by this Nurse player, seriously one of the better Nurse players I've seen since the nerf (Not that I went out of my way to find better nurse players). This Nurse had one bad chase and it was over, ruin and pop wasn't enough (pop she especially made use of). This Nurse's crime was... not playing like a (Bad Word), didn't tunnel anyone and he paid for it. Survivor mains if you're wondering why you get tunneled off of 2nd hook when there's 2-3 gens left this is why, it's not personal (usually) we'd just rather win. If this Nurse secured the kill on Tru3 he would've won, 3v1 is so much easier than 4v1 for obvious reasons. This wasn't even a Swf group, those aren't a problem themselves but when they're there they make certain problems worse.
Tl:dr bottom line is we should add a small secondary objective for survivors to do like making dull totems give a small slowdown penalty to gens per each totem active, this way it doesn't feel like such a waste of time watching someone do a totem next to a gen, actually gives them a reason to exist aside from 1k boldness.
Added on after: to make up for these changes I also want to see killers punished for playing like ######### for example tunneling one dude into the ground at the start of the match/blatant facecamping. I was thinking for being in a certain proximity to the hook (10-14 meters something like that) survivor repair/heal speeds increase by a fair bit as to punish facecamping just to secure an easy win. This way it rewards killers for playing fair by making gens just a little more manageable while punishing those who go out of there way to be ######### and gives the survivors a real chance to get gens done even while someone is pretty much out of the game.
Comments
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And people say ruin is a problem when most people can hit right through it kinda funny.
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Gens were so fast they were done in 11 mins? I don't get what's wrong here.
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the amount of time that Ruin stalls for, even if you succeed in every single great skill check, is more than almost any other perk could even come close to.
also, most is a horrible overstatement.
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Gens were done at 7:22 bud, the problem is a killer as potentially good as Nurse while being as good as he was with her couldn't come close to cutting it even with pop.
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This issue is that BHVR has shown in the past they want to "balance" around average players and not organized/top players meaning a change to gen speed would hurt weaker players in contrast to where they want the game.
Do I agree the game should be balanced for the average player? No.
You balance for the top players because people can always get better and the better players should be getting into the higher ranks meaning the average players don't have to worry about them. Problem here is ranking and balance are both off from this equilibrium right now.
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what rank you in because i run ruin and still see gens popping in like a minute or 2.
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I was kidding around. On a serious note: I'm not taking any video "proof" unless it is from killer side.
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God forbid killers have any rounds that aren't 4k stomps. They need a mode where the survivors are bots that just walk slowly through the map. That might make killers happy.
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Lol ok yellow ranks calm down. Barely even worth responding to, add something meaningful and then talk.
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It took 7m24s for the gens to be done That not really a gen rush TBH and a Nurse should do better at controlling the game but Swamp isnt the easiest with any killer. Also not everyone plays great every game and mistakes do happen, The Nurse player could just be having one of those bad games.
Now look at this video from Zubat as a counter to your one.
High rank play, Nurse no perks on road to rank 1 series.
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Per devs statistics 4 man SWF has average 49% escape rate.
How about you provide something meaningful besides a Tru3 video? Oh I forgot killer mains don't do that.
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I watched the first 2 games and here's what I have to say, first off this is old Nurse which I have to say without addons is far better than new Nurse without addons, the map control possible with old Nurse was amazing, new Nurse is much slower in comparison. Second Zubat intentionally camped people and went after people who just got unhooked, that Nurse player did not, he played nice (I'll get to that in a bit). Third the maps were much more favorable for Nurse, swamp is a nightmare for most killers. The Tru3 game wasn't a complete gen rush I have to admit as well, and I should've elaborated more on what I was thinking. Here's how really I want the game to change, I want the game to reward killers for not playing like #########, I don't think the way Zubat played should've been rewarded and if I were the survivor being camped to death I definitely wouldn't have had an enjoyable experience. I'll have to think about that, I'll edit my original post and mark what I added.
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While games can end waay to fast sometimes, i don't think we should touch the gen speed, once the killer gets momentum gens tend to just grind to a halt
I think the end game needs to be longer, something between finishing the gens and opening the gates, preferably something that isn't hold m1
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Its all about one game versus many, I think the real issue is people tend to remember bad games over good ones.
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"People tend to remember bad games over good ones." -Quoted by a Genius
This, this, this.
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Damn that's crazy bro I wasn't talking about Swf, glad you pulled statistics that show nothing that happened ingame aside from people died lol. Did they die from getting mori'd after first hook, did they completely throw, or did they get face camped to death? I won't lie my original post was flawed but I edited it to make it more reasonable, check it out it's at the bottom of my original post, lmk what you think after. I dunno why you're so angry though, are you feeling ok?
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I'm not sure if I'm watching the same video, but I saw the generators done in about 7:20, with the last survivor escaping roughly ten minutes in. That's not exactly a short match. You win some, you lose some. The killer lost in this one.
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If you're gonna share a tru video showcasing gen speed, this wasn't the one to use. He's had a number of games where the gens are done in just 4 minutes. Just apply more pressure 4head
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It's totally crazy, whoo, gens done in just 7:20 compared to how fast you can do 4K as Killer, like 5-6 minutes, when you play against casual players. I do not count tryhard Survivors.
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Ok, what about this video then? At least half my games are like this even with 4 slow down perks at red ranks. Gen speeds are a major issue and need too be addressed.
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My issue was how fast gens were done once they were started but then I remembered a fair amount of killers don't play fair/decent (tunneling from the start, facecamping) you get the idea. I added a bit after addressing that and what I think should be done about it but not many people saw it I guess, oh well what can you do.
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what abiut games wich ends in less than 5 minutes?
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Just watched it through. The killer got two hooks and then never downed anyone after that. The generators weren't the problem there, they have no reason to do anything but generators unless the killer stops them from doing them. Four slowdown perks will only help so much if you're not stopping them from doing generators in the first place.
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Terrible video to address the issue, gen`s alone arent so bad its when toolbox`s are implemented with add-ons too. its like "forever freddy" as people called it was unfair due to how long gens took, however if people use toolboxes its the same effect and thats where the balance falls in my opinion, even more so if you`re doing a build without gen defense (most adept achievements)
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I don't think gen speeds are the issue. Sitting at a gen for 80 seconds is already long enough. I think killer speed is the issue. Allowing killers to do their job faster and pressure multiple gens by making smaller maps with fewer safe tiles would help a lot of killers. I think if most of the older/larger maps were to be cut down to a more manageable size I think we'd all be surprised at how much more powerful most of the killers would become.
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Yeah, he's definitely had games from both perspectives where the game was over in under 5 minutes, and the killer/he didn't really even get outplayed that badly. As a survivor, I get a minimum of three times I can screw up in an epic fashion and still escape (each down/hook). Killers in the situation of gens being done in under 5 minutes can make one mistake and be completely cooked, especially if ruin goes down in 30 seconds like it normally does.
That being said, this is an a core mechanic of the game and an absolute nightmare to try to tackle rebalancing it. They can't just flatly nerf gen repair speed because new players get absolutely wrecked by killers in low ranks as-is, and the skill gap with great/ruin skill checks already makes better survivors way more powerful/faster on gens. It's also worth noting that newer players are missing perks, items/addons, and offerings, so their gen speeds aren't quite as ridiculous as 4 commodious boxes with socket swivels and BNPs. My idea would be to maybe leave gen speed the same and have something similar to cleansing totems as another objective so it would flatly add time to the process regardless of rank. I'm not a dev, nor do I claim to really know what I'm talking about, so there's probably a better way to tackle it, but I don't think a flat generator speed nerf would do much for balance outside of red ranks.
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Then what can it do in that situation?
i mean right after the second unhook.
the killer had already in a chase and hit the survivor in 30SEC.
And the killer wasn't tunnal but try to force out other survivor from doing gen in 3:22.
and maybe try to down the survivor in next 40SEC
but what happen?
5GENS done.
What can the killer did in that situation?
Is spending 30~40SEC to find a survivor and get 1 hit too slow?
I don't think so.
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I'm okay with gen speed as it is. It's when they pull up their toolboxes and pop gens in under five minutes that I have an issue with. Devs fixed Freddy's slow down speed, why can't they fix survivors toolbox speed?
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I would say git gud.
But I know, this is only allowed from Killers if Survivors complain. If Survivors are free to do Gens, they do Gens. Simple as that.
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7m24s is not a gen rush. Honestly, it's player's fault for using a D-tier killer when they could have gone with OP Wraith.
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Think the problem is killers feel like they are rushed and can't take their own time in the game. Killers feel pressured. When survivors should feel pressured but usually don't and are chill. Killers are honestly timed in red ranks. If they mess up a little they are done for.
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Downing somebody so the survivors have to leave the gen and go save would be a good start.
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ruin isn't an "op" or something like that , but it's used by everyone .. and trust me , seeing every single match killers have ruin .. it's mehh ... it need some sort of a re tweak or something ... double the speed of gen repair but higher great skillcheck zone , can be an example (people can choose to do the gen anyway or go for the totem ) , now it's too stressful to get the tiny little red zone while watching after ghostface who stalks you .. :))
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I think this would’ve been a better video...
4 gens done in 2 minutes and 29 seconds. The video you showed were honestly average speed so not a lot of people are going to agree with you.
Another good example would be this video.
5 gens done in 4 minutes and 10 seconds...seems pretty rough.
Note:
- No ruin for both matches
- No perks for both matches
- Rotten fields for the first match
- Doctor was used for the first match
@Peanits could we possibly get a review or statement for those videos? For me it just seems like a gen rush. In the first video yes tru had tunnel vision on someone, but for that many gens to be done in one chase (two with the pallet stun), just isn’t balanced.
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the killer already do that.
and only one chase fail in less than 30sec which already hit one hit.
4 gens done in the next chase.
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4men slug/just 4k on 5 gens is good because it shows killers skill
5 gens in 5mins are bad xd (in most cases killer is semi afk anyway)
interesting
i saw more 4k's on 5 gens than 5 mins 5 gens xd (from both perspectives, and i dont run slowdown perks or slug excessively) and ofc on same EU redranks as you guys (adding this so you wont add "my red rank survs/killers are better than yours)
someone told "i have 5min gens every second game" (maybe its your fault buddy?)
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Sure. The first one is a classic.
- Mistakes at shack.
- You can hear the generator next to shack being worked on, but he didn't chase them off of it.
- First down at ~1:30
- Gets pallet stunned
- First hook at ~2:15
That's a long time for the survivors to have nothing to do but generators. It just looks like a bad match to me, we all have them.
The second one is pretty outdated at this point. It all went downhill after that DS on first down. Fortunately it's not like that anymore, so that wouldn't happen these days.
There's nothing wrong with having a bad match every now and then, though. Sometimes you'll kill all four before a gen is done, sometimes you'll go against good survivors and get every mindgame wrong and lose. That's nothing to be ashamed of.
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Came into this thread thinking it was gonna be more bad ideas. But if you nerf both killer and survivor like that. To nerf griefing in exchange for more gen time, I think that would be good for both sides.
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Thanks for wasting our time. I've had killers run Ruin, Pop goes the weasel, discordance, and thantraphobia without a single generator done. One could make the argument that all four of these perks mashed together is way too over powered which they are.
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You might want to choose a better video to make a point with.
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I did post another one after this 😝
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Nerf gen repair speed? No. Adding a second equally objective? That's cool. They can't keep nerfing survivor defenses, perks etc in favor of some killers complaining about whatever, but you have to look at both sides. Do you know how annoying it is to see the devs little by little take away from survivors?
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Then your bad. I usually 4k at red ranks with most t any killer. If all or your games go to #########, your the problem
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Lets back off the gen time argument for a second and propose another question.
How long should chases be on average?
More particularly, how long should the first chase be?
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Have them nerf Hex Ruin and then come back and talk about the ALREADY nerfed generator repair speeds.
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It was at first but that's because I forgot a lot of killers act like ######### so just making it harder to get out of a game with someone who face camps and tunnels wouldn't be good, so I went for more of a give and take. I used that video to show that playing fair isn't rewarding thus he lost horribly despite getting very quick downs most of the match. Just making gen times longer is abysmal so why not a give and take, punish toxicity and reward decency.
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No I totally understand, my original post is flawed, I tried to change it to fit more what I think would be fair to both but it was too late and I made it a ######### flinging match. Just making gens take longer is dumb, nobody wants to stay in a game longer vs a killer who face camps and religiously tunnels after hook so I went for rewarding decency and making tunneling/facecamping less viable (my solution would be add a small secondary objective like making dull totems worthwhile like 2% slowdown per dull totem active but giving survivors a solid bonus to healing and repair speed when the killer is in a proximity to the hooked survivor after 15 seconds of being hooked)
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These types of post are what I do not understand at all. Most killer mains say survivors cry all day about not everyone getting out, being camped, tunneled, and game being killer favored. Killers cry just as much as us survivor mains, and this post is EXACTLY why killers need a reality check as well. Some people have pointed out something important. BHVR is not trying to favor killer or survivor. They want balance for the average player because this is what keeps the game alive. How many times has this happened to ALL high rank killer or survivor. "Que times so long at red ranks" or "it's same people at red ranks so boring" Then people depip just to be able to play a game faster. So then tell me what is the point? People like this OP cry, and cry, and cry that survivor is OP. Same with some high rank survivors cry all day. The game is boring because you make it boring. All I ever see posting here now is nerf this, buff that, omg we are broken as killers, FML as survivors we won't live now, and etc. Stop changing #########, stop crying, and just play the f-ing game. Can not even tell you how much times I have gotten people interested in this game, and playing killer or survivor. They get discouraged due to red rankers going to even rank 11 or below. Why you ask? Because of OP's "suggestions" like this. You don't want BHVR cater to avg or low players. Well then why should they cater to you? If red ranks players get bored of playing with each other. They depip to play with people of lower skill than them, and do toxic ######### because they now feel superior. Also as an fyi depiping is toxic it does not matter what you say or your reason. You are dropping down to a skill level of players you know you can you with. BHVR should be focusing on balancing the game to keep new people joining the game itself. If all they do is cater to red ranks. They get bored since they are never happy, risk of losing community due to high rank killers/survivors in like rank 13 just to farm people. New people could change their mind, not play, and it then equals no money for HBVR as well.
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Who cares about average? It is about the outliers, following your logic prenerf nurse was totally fine as it was the weakest killer across all ranks. slowclap
Can you confirm what the japanese community manager said about the published red rank stats? That the red rank statistic just needed to have a red ranked killer and not red ranked survivor in it?
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I gotcha. Between only doing gens and always seeing ruin and bbqc every match the game has been feeling really repetitive and I play both sides. If I'm being honest idk how much longer the game can remain popular and it's sad because this game has honestly been one of the most refreshing new concepts I'd say in this past decade.
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