How to "fix" (rework) generator repairs and its speed.
Introduction
I'm not saying gens are going too fast. I do not want you to change the duration it takes for 1/2/3/4 people. I do not want you to change any perks in the slightest. My thought was to build on the existing "skill-checks". Skill-checks do not require "Skill" to be performed, you just plainly need to look at the screen and press tab. stuff like ruin gives it a little bit of a challenge so you have to react right, what needs at least a bit skill. All the numbers in this are, of course, just to have a basic idea. They can all be tweaked and are not what I would suggest as the "only" way to make it work. I'm not a game designer. But how to rework them now?
Wanted match duration
Let's say the match, without opening the exit gates, is supposed to last 15 minutes. That means a single gen should take about 3 minutes to complete. Of course we all know in that time 4.5 gens can already be done. (Every gen could potentially be done mathematically in that time) Now there are 5 gens to do so you get 4 different afflictions that stack onto each other if gens are done too fast (a fifth wouldn't be worth anything because there is no skill-checks on exit gates). I'll call it levels. Level 1 is applied if 1 gen is done too quick. (1 gen in < 3 min, 2 gen in < 6 but > 3 min, and so on.) Level 2 will be applied if the second gen is done before the 1st is supposed to. (2 gens in < 3 min, 3 gens < 6 min but > 3 min, and so on) I think you get it by now.
The different afflictions
Level 1: Free "Unnerving presence". Your skill-checks are getting smaller while you are getting more. The "great skill-check" should also be afflicted. Otherwise it would actually be helpful for better survivors.
Level 2: Free Overcharge. Any time you start working on a generator you get an overcharge skill-check. This is also afflicted by level 1.
Level 3: Different speeds on the skill-check's pointer. This will get even experienced players.
Level 4: Free, leaked, reworked, "Obedience" add-ons (Doctor). Make the skill-checks turn left sometimes. Not every time, you're not supposed to get used to it ;P.
Epilogue
I think this would enable bad players that just don't "genrush" to not notice anything because they don't even get to it, while better players have to actually show some skill in order to succeed, and real "pros" can still genrush because they still hit their skill-checks, but it at least feels more fair for the killer because he knows you're not just holding m1 but actually taking part in the game.
Comments
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Worth testing on the PTB i think.
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Just fix most maps and gen speed isn't an issue. Gen speed is only an issue right now because many maps have ultra safe pallets and windows that take no skill to loop, which makes chases take way longer than they rightfully should.
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I don't think making skillchecks harder to do changes anything, especially with these tiny effects which only occasionally come into play for a short amount of time.
The main problem with generator speeds is that they're just too fast without Ruin.
80 seconds is a generator, okay? Now imagine this.
You spawn in as Killer.
You look for a Survivor. (Say this takes 20 seconds)
You start chasing them. You catch them in a bad area and get an early hit. (10 seconds)
They use their speedboost to run to better building and use a few pallets. (30 seconds)
You down them just as they're vaulting a pallet- You break the pallet, pick up the Survivor and go to the nearest hook. (10 seconds)
Your BBQ and Chili activates, revealing 3 Survivors each on a different generator. 70 seconds have already elapsed, so you have 10 seconds to stop 3 gens from popping. Even if you chase one, the other 2 gens are getting done. Good luck.
Basically- as long as the first Survivor found does okay (Not even good, just okay) in their chase, and you don't have Ruin, you're screwed out of 2-3 generators on your first hook.
Now let's imagine a different situation, where a Survivor totally potato's at the start of your match and you down and hook them in a mere 30 seconds.
A generator is going to pop 14 seconds from now. 2 people on a gen can have it done in 44 seconds without Ruin. Good luck.
Okay, so my primary point is that generators are just too fast if Survivors actually do them. Keep in mind, I haven't even mentioned great skillchecks. This can all be done simply with good skillchecks.
Your afflictions wouldn't really change anything, as people don't need to hit great skillchecks as long as there isn't Ruin
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@yoko123 You're just saying mine doesn't help, why don't you suggest something that works better? Okay you said ruin. My first thought was instead of the different speed skill-checks do ruin but I am trying to make something new up. I don't want to reuse stuff that killers can just use as perks. I know 3 levels still are just that, and I don't like it. But you tell me a better way then please. You never tested these. I tried testing it with what we already have. It was pretty damn hard and I messed a lot of skillchecks even with just half the effects. I have 800 hours and I usually hit great on ruin so that is not the issue. But you know what just for proof of concept I'll develop an application that shows off my idea. Ill get back here once it's finished.
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Cool ideas, but I agree with the above. The game is just too quick if you choose to do generators.
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I apologize if my message came across as hostile. I did not mean it that way.
Honestly, balancing generator speeds are extremely hard because you have lots of types of players to account for.
If you have a team that's dedicated to getting generators done efficiently, especially against a weak Killer with or without Ruin, there's almost nothing you can do to stop all the generators from being completed.
If you have a team that wants to loot chests, sabotage hooks, cleanse dull totems, or, worst of all, play immersed and hide from the Killer- generators are going to get done extremely slowly. Furthermore, if you're against a powerful Killer AND Ruin is active, all Survivors can die before a single generator gets done.
So it's hard to balance, because:
- If we makes generators harder, the gameplay experience gets worse for players who aren't focusing objectives hard.
- If we leave generators how they are, the gameplay experience gets worse for Killers playing against an objective focused team.
I have had 20+ minute games as Killer where no gens get done, playing as Clown with no Ruin.
I have also had games where all 4 Survivors escape in a few minutes with Ruin up the entire game.
But to answer your question, what do I think should be done about genrushing?
I personally have a few ideas.
Idea 1 is that we just increase generator times by 20 or 30 seconds.
This just makes gens slower, simply
Idea 2 is that kicking a generator causes instant regression, similar to Pop Goes The Weasel, like 3-5%
This makes breaking generators more worth it and gives the Killer better defensive options
Idea 3 is that whenever a generator is completed, all other generators cannot progress past 75% for 30-60 seconds.
This would still allow Survivors to make progress on generators, but would force them to hide or be chased for a short time in between each generator
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I don't like idea 1 because its still no skill involved, in my concept I want to give players that ARE actually skilled the opportunity to still do the gens fast. That is not a thing when you just plainly lengthen the time.
Idea 2 is bad because whenever I play killer I have to literally go out of my way to kick a gen because either its almost 0 anyways or I saw a survivor that will however already be on the other side of the map if I kick the gen.
I have the same problem with idea 3 as with idea 1. It doesn't lift the skill cap but just makes the game take longer, makes you hide in lockers and stuff what doesn't help the killer. As a killer you patrol gens, not lockers/hiding spots.
Also you said that:
If we makes generators harder, the gameplay experience gets worse for players who aren't focusing objectives hard.
But in my idea the objectives are not getting harder if you don't focus on them. the effect level of course resets with the time. So you don't go to level 3 and stay there for the next 27 years, instead it goes down to 2, then 1, and finally 0. If they really don't focus on objectives they don't even experience it, making it no difference and therefor not worse. If they get to it they have to had at least some focus but it gets reset so every time they actually reach the unfun part they can play blendette and get some evader emblem points.
Sorry if I missed something.
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Devs have to prevent gen rush. After balnce key and mori they must correct some bad maps design, because some maps are too big or with infinites caused by stiupid windows spawn that they have to remove, because normal speed killers have too much problems to make pressure on big maps or play vs infinites. Think devs must close god windows and reduce maps by remove portions of it or at least easy reduce structures/pallet spawns, so there are many dead zones. Another solution can be to add a necessary secondary object for surv. I agre after ruin goes down gen rush starts, and that's not fun. Ruin can ne not fun, instead I think devs have to work on maps, and close god windows or reduce structures/pallet on big one is very simple.
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You got all your facts wrong. This idea is the worst I heard if I'm being honest. I appreciate you taking initiative though :)
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Its all wrong
Thats your argument
Wow...
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Gens don't take 3 min each, and gens get even slower as the trial progresses. Take these into account and come back fresh (try 1 min instead of 3 to start out if you need a hint bud)
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I didn't say each I said it mathematically is possible. A gen takes 80 seconds. So 4 gens can be done in 80 seconds. Now lets say all 4 gather at a gen in the next 20 seconds. 40% slower per person. That means 1 person would need 112 seconds per individual guy on the gen, that divided by 4 leaves us at 28 seconds for the last gen, so mathematically it can be done in 2 minutes and 8 seconds, obviously depending on the search time for the last gen and a perfectly split spawn. This will never happen in reality but it mathematically can. Fact check the numbers on the wiki they are all correct. So it seems like I am not wrong to me. Also I said that you have a desired match duration and just said its 15 min with what you are saying the match is SUPPOSED to last 5 minutes, not longer. If you are skilled you SHOULD BE able to do it faster, in the 80 seconds it takes for the gen or even faster when hitting greats. I also said that these numbers are NOT final and NOT the only way to do it but can be changed to whatever the devs feel fitting.
Did you even read what I was proposing? Feels like you didn't...
Post edited by Maffin on0
