The Tunneling needs to stop.
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howdy! sorry to rain on your parade, but this game isn't a competitive game at all. it was forced to be due to how the community sees and takes it.
dead by daylight is an asymmetrical 1v4 game, and it was originally ruled as a casual party game on various sources until people started taking it way too seriously, and that it was eventually advertised as competitive. only once, however, though i do not recall where.
but my main point is that because dead by daylight is as asymmetrical as it is, it cannot be competitive, hence why it was originally made for casual play.
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This ^_^
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How can you hold a debate without knowing the meaning of words ? Competitive is the opposite of collaborative. A game involving one side against another is competitive by essence, it has nothing to do with casual or asymetric aspects.
There's a casual mode in dbd, it's called kill your friends. But you can't make it collaborative either as in the end some win and some lose...
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Not sorry. It's legit, and quite effective.
I have no sympathy to offer.
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I don't see how people can make this argument. Just because the teams are not balanced player wise does not mean it's not a competition. Games by their nature have a winner and a loser. This means people have to compete to win. Even if it was 100 vs 1 it would still be a competition between the two sides, regardless if all players are friends or not.
In other words, my parade remains quite dry under my umbrella of logic.
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regardless on how it's gone about or how badly i may have worded it/attempted to explain; my point still stands. dead by daylight wasn't meant to be competitive and is solely made competitive due to its playerbase and the nature of it. by gameplay based on the whole "fighting to escape/fighting to capture and kill", yes it can be competitive since that's typical of most vs games, but by environmental standpoints, it is not and shouldn't be, as the game is not built for that.
we can agree to disagree, however, i'm just merely making it clear that dead by daylight being meant for more casual play, both online and offline, is a very real thing, and has been that way since its initial release. i suppose it's a matter of individuals simply taking it way too seriously as well, as that could be another factor to the competitive output most people tend to see.
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I've had killers who have camped or hard tunneled me message me after saying "git gud," "ur trash," and most recently "u should stop playing this game as survivor." They won & I moved on yet they feel a need to message me and insult me as if camping and/or tunneling and winning wasn't enough. Something is seriously missing from these peoples' lives. Sad.
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Or fun.
To be honest, many players I encounter are some sad kids, or complete morons. I don't know, some people really think it upsets someone, if they write 'easy' or something? It only tells sad story about their lives.
About gen rushing... what the hell is even this mystical gen 'rushing'? Doing gens? I think that's kind of survivors' one and ONLY objective. What are we suppose to do to not gen rush? Jump on the hook once or twice? Killer has like, kind of in a way, four different objectives (not counting protecting gens) - survivors.
And about camping and tunnelling, I feel like, sure, those are tactics, but kind of lame and stupid. Sure, you can get a kill, but that's really fun for you? I guess I'm not sweaty enough for this game, but I like when players have fun, it's just a freaking game, without tournaments, proper rewards for anything, ranks etc so really, relax kids.
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Imagine actually believing that DBD is remotely competitive. Imagine thinking it's anything other than casual.
Spoiler: You're wrong. DBD is about as casual as it gets. It's the salty people who play it who take it too seriously that are competitive.
As far as this goes...
Can I please get a game were I’m or somebody is not being tunneled to death?
Can I please have a causal game where everyone make points over 10k?
Can we please not “gen rush” a killer to make them feel like they have to tunnel?
If you really think tunneling is a strategy you really need to re-evaluate how you play this game. This is not a competitive game so please stop treating it like one.
Both Survivors and Killers
It’s not a playstyle it’s unhealthy gameplay.
- People will play how they want. If they want to tunnel, that's up to them. If they want to camp, that's up to them.
- Play better, and you can make that happen.
- What would you like survivors to do instead of literally their only objective? Have an orgy in the killer shack? Gen rushing isn't a thing. It won't be a thing as long as it's the only objective required to open doors.
- Tunneling is a legitimate strategy. If you know one person (I'm guessing since you are complaining, it's probably you most of the time) is easy to down and hook, theoretically it would be better to go after that person to ensure an early kill. Myself, I'd rather chase everyone for my BBQ stacks, but some don't care. That doesn't make it less legitimate of a strategy.
- It is absolutely a play style. You can dislike it, but it's absolutely a play style.
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imagine calling dbd a competitive game.
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For all those saying DBD is not competitive. DBD is a game. According to merriam-webster the definition of a game is "a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other." It's that simple.
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It's not. So much people try to make this game coneptivite bit it's not.
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Sure, people can play how they like. If you feel like you need to play cheap,scummy, sweaty, or ridiculous overkill perks, add ons, and offering all the time just to “win” don’t go complaining when survivors DC against you because you had it coming. Same for survivors if you feel the need to be a complete jerk or “bully” a killer teabagging, flashlight blind at every single pallet, interrupt chase that has nothing to do with you especially when the killer isn’t tunneling just to feel good about yourself and they were play casually. You have no right to complain when you eventually get tunneled.
I don’t camp or tunnel survivors. It’s unhealthy and cause frustration on both sides. I know the feeling of frustration from that. I feel bad when I completely destroy a team or killer with mins of the game it’s not fun. I’ll literally sacrifice myself for the killer during endgame because they tried their best and played in a non scummy way or I’ll have 3 man on a hook I’ll will literally walk away far as possible so the last guy remaining can unhook them because I don’t wanna to die so early. We haven’t had a chance to earn points or play the game still 5/4 gens left. I can say that’s their fault for being bad at chases or too altruistic instead I hope they’ll understand the generosity that I given them and let them actually play the game make it longer it benefits both sides. I never really received hate messages I’ve always received nice messages from survivors and I have plenty of them. (Thank you, I had a fun time, that game was amazing, thank for being less sweaty) I have a lot of lovely messages from survivors even when I killed them. Very rare I get hate messages, but it’s usually from the #1 A- hole survivor of the game being a douche bag. Usually telling me to kill myself 🙄
I mainly play SWF when I play survivor, but we all play killer equally. Granted we play different and have arguments on how to play I can definitely say I’m the less sweaty of them all lol. BUT what we do know is not fun going against sweaty, try-hard survivors gens rushing the killers. There are other things to do. You don’t have to strictly just do generators. To us gens are like a second objective depending on the killer (Tunnelers and Camper we just leave or “Gen rush” it not worth our time.) as for casual chilled killers just playing normally we’ll pop 2 or 3, but we’ll do other things afterwards. Search chest, do totem, chase down the killer to do my favorite thing the cha cha slide in the basement 🤗 . Generator doesn’t necessarily have to be your number one priority there are so many things and perk builds to do and try if you put your mind to it. I’m not saying don’t do generators, but every now and then it’s okay to take a break and relax from holding M1or R1. Same for killer it’s okay to not get kills every game. I’m not saying you can’t kill, but you can take a break and not care if everyone escapes. Again try different builds, meme around a little, set fun challenges for yourself if it works you might enjoy it.
I’m not really complaining about me be tunneling it’s the fact the killer feels the need to just tunnels period to “win” or feel good about themselves.
I’m always the first survivor found due to OoO which is my favorite perk to running . I don’t understand why killers think it’s “TOXIC” it’s just an aura perk and I like to see what killer you are and where you are. It’s not a “promote you to tunnel me perk.” Which a tunneling killer literally told me. It’s just uncalled for and it completely unnecessary if a certain silly perk bothers you that much. If both sides can stop tic for tac will each other we would have a better community.
I spent all yesterday being tunneled down into the ground while my other friends were doing generator and got out then killer complains they got “gen rush” and they couldn’t find anyone else even though two other people are literally near by me, never been hook, but you choice the injured person who just got off hook who can run? It got a point were I got the same killer twice they brought an ivory mori to take me out as early as possible and I’m simply just trying to relax and play casual game with my friends.
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Absolutely TL;DR. My goodness.
Condense that down.
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If I'm in a good position I kill off the bad players if there are any and extend the game by slugging.
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There is absolutely everything wrong with SWF. 9/10 games I play as killer the 3-4man swf teams are some of the most toxic, bullying ass holes I've ever seen in the game. We often HAVE to camp or tunnel to get a kill and even then that doesnt work because we have 2 body blocking the whole game so I cant even get a hook. They're always cocky, there's always one ass hole with OoO who vaults a window for 20 minutes while not in a chase to distract me and, eventually, make me tunnel them. They're all wearing mics, telling their entire team where I am, where my traps/totems are and where they can get the save. But that's fair? Its already 4 against 1! So I cant tunnel a SWF team or camp after being gen rushed in 5 minuets, or mori a teabagging ass hole, or bring NOED because I'm toxic and I'm a tunnelr and I'm trash? No. SWF broke the game. It was never intended to be a coordinated, teamplay like that. I play both sides equally so dont come for me and be a dick. I've seen a 3man have one guy sacrifice himself and DC on the hook so the team had permanent kindred and could see one another the whole game, you bet I pointed out every single one of those ass holes so the killer had a chance. I've watched 3mans blatantly bully the killer and barely try and play the game.
Let's stop blaming the killer for everything and take a look at what they have to deal with. It's often that they HAVE to camp or tunnel to get a 1k, let alone a 4. Crying about tunneling is so #########. SO #########. Compared to what people deal with on killer side.
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Do you know when I will stop camping and "tunneling"? When survivors stop making it the most appealing playstyle by genrushing, and disrespecting killers. If 33% of the time I literally can't walk 20 meters from the hook before somebody is mounting a rescue, do you know what I'll keep doing? I will check the nearest generator, then come back to check the hook, because chances are, someone will be straight away trying to mount a rescue, instead of pressuring distant generators, instead of respecting the killer.
I don't care for people complaining about a cheap strat that has incredibly simple counterplay on top of a perk that literally saves you from tunneling, which most survivors seem to run. Meanwhile killers have to deal with genrushing SWFs every third game, on top of the fact that matchmaking ALMOST ALWAYS matches you with people that are 5-8 ranks higher than you, and thus can easily loop you if you are an average killer.
I have 80 hours on the game. I don't have a single good perk yet. I'm barely rank 10.
Yet I have been playing against purple ranks since I hit rank 15, and now at rank 10 I often see red ranks.
So here's my TLDR- when the game is no longer hell to play as a mediocre killer, and when survivors stop doing the one thing that feeds tunneling - tunneling will stop or decrease in frequency greatly.
On a side note, really hilarious to see people in the same post complain about tunneling and then say how SWF is completely fine.
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Well some believe tunneling is a viable strat so it causes a gen rush on the side. But then there’s 3-4 escapes so idk why they feel the need to tunnel. When I play killer I know when I play survivor tunneling is annoying as hell so I try to go after someone else after unhooks and that as it gives the survivors more of a good time even if they all die. I may tunnel if there’s a gen rush as in there’s 3 done in less than 2 minutes so I can slow it down but that’s not often. Maybe someday more people will play similar but I doubt it I guess we just live on with the 5k bloodpoints games
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Mhmm. You totally didn’t read anything I’ve wrote good to know.👌
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It is on the devs to make sure the game is balanced and enjoyable, not the players to be obligated to not play in a way the game is not balanced for.
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I mean a lot of people camp and tunnel when they don't need to, and they're not going to be reading these forums going "OOOOH" and suddenly stop because you said it has to.
Depending on the killer, or the map, how good survivors are, if your friendly teammate decided to not make themselves seen so that you don't tunnel the person off the hook, or how fast gens are going, is going to determine whether a killer decides to tunnel you.
There's already DS and BT, which ironically punish good killers more than they punish people who tunnel or camp.
If your team is doing the objective quickly while each survivor can loop the killer well enough, at no real fault of the killers, then you can expect the gens to go fast. Now, you'll either have a killer who will tunnel someone out of the game because they need to if they want to win", or you'll have a killer who will just play the game as they normally would, and not tunnel, because that's fun to them.
I guess my point is, some people are scumbags while other people are simply forced into a specific playstyle because survivors control the pace of a game that shouldn't be in their control.
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I don’t know. I think it’s both a devs and players problem. Players are what makes a game well a gaming experience. The Devs are here to give us a good game, with interesting content, bugs fixes every now and later, and balances certain areas of the game that seem overwhelming.
They have a problem with either over buff, over nerf or sometimes change something that never need a change. BUT even with all these problems and issues with the game and it unbalanced areas it’s up to us as players on how you use said tools. We choice to make them “META” which causes the game to become annoying, not fun, repetitive, and unbalanced rather than try something new. The only thing we can’t change is MAP RNG if no one brings map offering. There are really bad maps for both killer and survivors.
Example: I brutally hate ColdWind Farm as Killer especially as Ghostface as I can’t stalk through the corn or see properly which 99% of the time screw me over when I could’ve had that survivor marked and down already to move on to the next person. Imagine if ColdWind was a “Meta” map and If every survivor used a coldwind map offering every single game as Killer depending on who you MAIN this map will become annoying and eventually not fun and sometimes we’ll feel like we need to change our killer to fit this new coldwind trend. Now that every player is playing the exact same perks or killers you have survivors and killers who start complaining “THE KILLER IS OP, SURVIVOR SIDED, AND UNFAIR, NOT FUN” because they are getting the same thing over and over again. It was us as players that made it that way because we keep picking tools that weren’t meant to be over used it was just there as an option. If people tried something new every now and then I feel there would be some differences in gameplay.
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I read literally the first line. "I think it's both a devs and players problem". No, it's devs, and only devs. It's unreasonable to tell players not to use the most effective strategy to ensure victory in a game where the goal is to win by killing/surviving. Period.
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I read your whole post but wish I hadn't. The first paragraph alone is problematic. Saying survivors can DC because killer tries hard is ridiculous.
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But where is this victory sign? Who said that if you don’t kill anyone you lost? Who said if you kill everyone you win? Who said if you died you lost? Who said if you escape you win? Again where is the “VICTORY” sign at? You’re making this a competitive when it’s really not. Just because it’s a PVP doesn’t mean there’s always a “VICTORY” at the end. I say it a good game when everyone made 28k Bloodpoints without farming.
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Blame the devs for making annoying, not fun, repetitive, and unbalanced strats viable.
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They can't stop comms because it's a third party.
They can't stop SWF because the game will die the next day.
"Gen rush" is when the survivors doing the only objective they have?
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It's not a competitive game. It's a PVP game. In PVP, there are winners, and there are losers. Casual games can have winners and losers. Everyones idea of victory in DBD is different.
BHVR considers victory "2 kills". Except, even their idea is fundamentally flawed because you can't level up with 2 kills. I consider victory at least 3 kills. Others consider victory a pip; whatever the case, if someone kills all 4 survivors, there's no doubting they won that game.
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I said “If you feel like you need to play cheap,scummy, sweaty, or ridiculous overkill perks, add ons, and offering all the time just to “win” don’t go complaining when survivors DC against you because you had it coming. Same for survivors if you feel the need to be a complete jerk or “bully” a killer teabagging, flashlight blind at every single pallet, interrupt chase that has nothing to do with you especially when the killer isn’t tunneling just to feel good about yourself.”
This went both ways not just survivors.
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sometimes you have to tunnel as killer lol I play survivor and killer 50/50 so I do understand how annoying it can be but if I only have 1-2 gens still up and 4 survivors alive still I’m going to tunnel
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So blame the Devs for something we think is only viable options when there are so much, so many options out there for us? Okay.
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It's a game where one killer needs to kill 4 survivors. Tunneling the weakest link will ALWAYS be viable.
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Yep. If the more fun options were more viable, then more people would follow those options.
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I said “If you feel like you need to play cheap,scummy, sweaty, or ridiculous overkill perks, add ons, and offering all the time just to “win” don’t go complaining when survivors DC against you because you had it coming. Same for survivors if you feel the need to be a complete jerk or “bully” a killer teabagging, flashlight blind at every single pallet, interrupt chase that has nothing to do with you especially when the killer isn’t tunneling just to feel good about yourself“
This went both ways not just survivors only.
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I know you said it goes both ways, and it does. Both sides are at fault. But if I had to pick a side that DC more because they don't like the conditions of the game, I'd say it would be survivors.
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Decisive strike : Am I a joke to you?
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Kinda c:
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Yeah 100% and they need to nerf gen speed
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Of course, and I’m not said it’s right, but as of the games current state killers that do said above should not complain when someone leaves their game.
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Ok, I'm going to leave my perspective as a surv main, and someone who often partakes in a SWF group..
Now, by all means, I don't approve of camping and tunneling, however the latter is circumstantial and the former in which I would excuse it hasn't happened to me or anyone I've played with personally in a match.
I can see many understandable reasons behind why someone would "tunnel", (such as, unhooker long gone/only followable thing is a blood trail) but I find it completely unacceptable when the killer actively avoids the rescuer, injured or not, to chase down the unhooked survivor even if they are being shielded by a rescuer.. which believe it or not has happened quite a bit (I'm mostly a purple rank survivor).
As for camping.. is a different story.. like I said, it hasn't happened to me personally, but the only circumstance that I can think of at all would be to camp the overly toxic survivor that's been griefing the killer the whole round unnecessarily (no reason flashlight, forcing into chases, abusing loops for no reason but to abuse killer) because I feel like it's a perfect vent of frustration and revenge for the killer. I don't enjoy being camped for any reason otherwise (e.g. I was in a swf game when my friend was funneled and face camped right from the beginning of the game just so they could activate Dying Light - we got them hook once but the killer went straight for them again, never stood a chance) and I honestly feel like that can't be fun for either side? Like, where's the fun in just waiting for someone to maybe rescue if they haven't caught on that you're camping..?(please correct me if I'm wrong though..)
Now.. onto SWF.. I don't think SWF is a problem, so long as the people in it aren't doing it with the intention of just ######### over the killers they go against, (4x flashlight and such toxicity) but instead just out to play with friends and chill whilst trying to escape death.. My group does this, (not that I have any other examples I guess..) we go in to survive as best we can and most of the time only 1 or 2 of us get out(That's out of all 4 survivors, we can only rarely get a gang of 4 friends together now..) cause really the only time we use comms in relation to gameplay is to confirm if one of us is in a chase/killer identity.. aside it's usually just us joking around or talking about stuff.. but we don't do toxic ######### like I've heard a lot of SWF groups do.. cause i honestly enjoy playing with people and having the company, not go around abusing the killer ://
Uh.. Gen rushing? I kinda don't see a fault with it in the sense that survivors don't really have any other objectives aside from cleanse totems - which a lot if people are only prompted to do if there's a ruin or such out there.. Most of the time, I don't realise a gen rush is happening until a few gens pop at the same time. But once again, there's little else for the survivors to do, and I personally don't want to hunt down the killer just for a chase cause I'm.. very bad at chases most of the time.. The only thing I can say really, is to give survivors multiple objectives to avoid gen rushing cause the way I see it is that even by decreasing gen repair speed, the rushes will still happen if the killer isn't coming across anyone.. it'd still be a gen rush, but just at a different pace.. So i cant really agree on the basis of stopping people from gen rushing since all it is is people completing their set objective at a quicker pace than normal..(though I do see the problem with x4 toolbox + spare part set, but again.. that's more a toxic SWF group)
I'm sorry if I got anything wrong..
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There are many things that help against getting tunneled: BT, DS, insta-heals, teammates who can tank hits...
While DbD is not e-sports, it's PvP and therefore competitive. No side is obligated to play soft/generously so the opponent has better chances at winning.
Btw, a lot of killers who don't tunnel & camp get still teabagged at the exit gates and insulted in the after-game chat as a "thank you for playing nice". So since so many survivors obviously don't appreciate it when the killers play generously, it's a logical consequence that killers stop playing that way.
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Yeah but I did. I absolutely did. And I disagree with your thinking and lack of logic. I'm assuming you've not played killer more than a handful of times because if you had youd completely understand what was wrong with SWF. The rest of the community sees it, it's just a select -special- few who dont.
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But it is...
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I play killer and survivor equally and there are different types of SWF.
There’s nothing wrong with SWF it’s the type of SWF that you get in your game when you are playing killer like I said if you bother to look. I’ve gotta different types of SWF, Tryhards, Babies, Memers, Casual, Farmers, Etc ETC. I can go on.
Maybe If you played a little less sweaty maybe you’ll see the different SWF every now and then and won’t come to the conclusion every SWF is broken sweaty 4 toolboxes, rainbow map and key team. Some SWF don’t even use comms.
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Xmas is tunnel time. I cant help it.
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Most of the time, SWF play stupid. They will follow you around, unhook people right in front you of, and try every cheesy move in the game. Usually these people are the ones that cry about tunneling and camping in the chat if you crush them, or try to get a rise out of you if they win.
I have encountered the ones that are trying to teach their friends how to play and I try to play as fair as possible in those situations.
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survivors are toxic the killer will play toxic as a response. not because u did but maybe becasue others did, the toxicity in this game is so big that every side will play as toxcc as they can. embrace what u created survivors.
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Dude, I play on PS4. All SWFs are sweaty try hards with meta and broken ass items. I also play both sides equally, and, for the last time, I did read your whole post, maybe you're not reading all of mine before you pop off? The majority of the community sees that SWF is broken and you're lieing straight out of your mouth if you're gonna tell me that you play killer at all and that SWF isnt broken. Even the devs have admitted that its a problem and that gens are going too fast, but aparentally killers will just always be the problem.
But if you insist of arguing you can have the last word you need so bad, I dont try and discuss the game with people who refuse to get it lol
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Going by this definition of Tunneling:
- You target one player until they are dead.
I feel like a lot of players don't take into account how awful it feels to be on the receiving end. Being on the receiving end sucks because you literally can't do anything due to how vulnerable you are. The killer will just down you and rinse/repeat until you are sacrificed.
Therefore, I understand the survivor point of view, but there is a perk to stop this, that perk being Decisive Strike. If the killer slugs you, that should be enough time to get picked back up by a teammate. 😁🤗
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