Ruin needs to be added to every killer by default, not a perk
That's simply all there is to it. Every killer is required to take it, and because of crappy totem spawns and survivors spawning right next to it, it still only lasts 10 seconds.
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No.
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Yes.
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I think gens just need to be slower. There should NEVER be a perk that has to be in every build in order to make said build viable, and that's the issue we have with ruin.
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You're not required to take it. Ruin isn't the issue, ultimately its map design and devs not having a solution to the fact that a good survivor alone can waste enough time that a Killer is walking away with a 0k.
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If you want a build to be viable, you need to take it.
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No, but i do agree they need to slow down the game, and give the killer more options in terms of builds.
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I feel like Ruin needs to remain as a perk, but not be a hex. If 4 survivors are healthy, it operates as it does now, but each survivor being injured will reduce it's effectiveness by 25%. If everyone is hurt, the gens can go fast, but the killer gets an M1 instadown. Heal back up and ruin comes back.
This would also give people a reason to run no mither.
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Ruin is not a required perk. People just feel like it is because they don't do well without it, because they're used to relying on it. Survivors used to feel the same way about Self-Care.
I know people who can consistently not only 4k, but achieve Merciless Victories, at rank 1 without Ruin. You don't need a perk to win, you just need to be good.
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No
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While I agree it would be good for overall game/balance health to add a second objective with similar urgency to what Ruin provides, I do not think the answer is to make Ruin basekit.
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Build in ruin for the entire game? Hell no
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No, you aren't required to take it. Some killers have enough map presence to create pressure early such that Ruin can be forgone. Corrupt Intervention helps trapping killers herd survivors into areas that they have trapped, and serves the function of a more reliable ruin alternative. Pop Goes the Weasel helps killers who can get early downs selectively kill earlygame survivor pressure to an acceptable degree. Ruin isn't required.
I agree that survivors have initiative in any match, and the game is balanced around bad survivors - thus good survivors break balance, but I definitely do not think Ruin is required.
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The problem is the perk is not uniform across the ranks. If you make ruin basekit will it significantly slow down red rank survivors that are competent at skill checks? No it won't. Will it nerf Baby Dweets into nerve being able to do a gen? Yes. Then because ruin is there all the time people will eventually just get used to ruin (like the red ranks are) and hit the greats. I see ruin now and I don't really care about it. I rarely leave the gen I am on now if ruin procs because 9/10 times I hit the skill check and the other 10th the totem breaks before I get a skill check!
Making hex ruin base kit will elongate lower rank games and not really effect high ranks. It might be feasible for green and purple ranks that aren't too sure of themselves yet but anyone over 2000 hours is just gunna laugh at your red skill checks.
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No ruin is just bad, people brought up ideas to replace ruin as an overall new mechanic anyway a long time ago.
The idea that survivors have to find randomly scattered fuel cans first and bring them to a generator before they can start working on it.
This will slow the game down a bit, give survivors more to do and force them a bit to explore giving both sides a chance to earn points, stealthing around the killer or the killer finding them
Also, should this really be here and not in feedback/suggestions?
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Why would you be required to take it if it's only going to last 10 seconds? Stop making excuses.
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I think we shouldnt make ruin basekit.
Especially when we could just tweak basic skillcheck chance, sucess zones and sucess/failure progress bonus/penalty.
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That would never happen, nor should it
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"Every Killer is required to take it"
Nope, not at all. Ruin is one of those Perks which is really good on Low Ranks, but almost useless on High Ranks. People know Totem Spawns, people can hit Great Skill Checks.
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I don't think that's a good idea, too many newer players struggle with ruin
I would rather the game be made longer instead of slowed down tbh
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At this point the can just change the difficult of genators skillceck...
Just saying...
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DS basekit
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I disagree, just on the basis that slowdown is no more fun than losing 3 gens in 2 minutes. It's a band aid solution, and doubling down on that isn't going to fix anything or get to the root of the problem (Whether that be generator repair speed or lack of secondary objectives for survivors), nor will it make the game any more fun.
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Ruin is required for good survivors. Of course any perks will work against #########-tier players, but when ruin works, it works, and there isn't anything comparable in the game to that of a good ruin game.
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I would rather stop playing Billy than use Ruin on him.
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Ruin is a bad perk even when active. It prevents people who use it as a crutch from improving their skill and efficiency as killer.
When it lasts it helps killers easily beat bad survivor teams without needing to play well themselves. At the same time it does close to nothing against good teams even if it stays up the whole match.
I play without ruin and always have 4 perks on which I can actually rely
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Play without ruin and survivors will complete 2 gens before you even have time to get to it.
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If you don't play without ruin at red ranks, you are either playing an overpowered killer or you are camping and tunneling hard. That's just the way it is. For most killers it will easily take 3+ non-ruin generators to get through all the safe pallets to get your first down. I say red ranks because it proves a level of competency, not necessarily skilled players.
If the survivors don't know how to utilize the safe pallets then they are bad and it's not a match worth considering for game balance. Or they got outplayed super hard, and got mindgamed at safe pallets.
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The devs already said 'No' buddy. Move on.
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Hard disagree. Ruin is a perk I actively avoid using because I come to rely on it, and that makes me play sloppily and blame it on ruin going too fast as opposed to anything I did. I don’t think making it basekit would do anything positive. If gens are too fast by default then the problem are gens, not that ruin takes a perk slot.
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Hmm interesting how you all argue against ruin as basekit but want kindred in survivor's basekit. Really makes ya think...
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I’ve argued quite strenuously against Kindred basekit as well. So I guess my stance is “perks are perks for a reason, making them basekit is not a good balance move”
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Killer still needs something to slow the game without the requirement of taking ruin.
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I don’t want either to be basekit
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If you're required to take it, and it's gone in 10 seconds, but you still win the match... Was it really required?
It always makes me laugh how some people complain about totems being destroyed in seconds almost every match but also say they can't win without ruin =/
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Because it doesn't happen 100% of the time, duh..
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That's why haunted grounds is a secret S tier perk. You can pretty much rely on having it popped within the first minute of the game because of how trash the totem spawns are.
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how often does it happen?
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One of the best strategies in the game is to hook someone on your ruin and camp it. I have actually gotten use out of hangman's trick by camping the same hook next to ruin all game.
Nothing will get you more salt.
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Before you get to a gen, stop feigning ignorance.
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So many killer players overused ruin that half experienced players have not much of a problem hitting perfect skillchecks most of the time so gens go just as quick as without it and games without ruin become even faster.
I hardly ever use it on any killer, its not necessary. As a survivor I find it annoying that it not only stops gen progress for 3 s but also bites 3 s repair progress out of your progress bar.
3 people on a gen not constantly hitting skill checks (which tend to occur at a ridiculously high frequency) can easily bring a gen down in short time.
Its an overdone perk like so many bad design decision this studio delivers combined with very bad coding.
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I mean sure. Then after a couple of months. When every survivor learns to hit greats, what then?
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If you changed ruin to be something else? Maybe. But survivors should also have something like kindred or deja vu in their base kit as well. You also don't need ruin on a lot of killers and builds. Billy, Nurse, Spirit and maybe Pig do just fine without it (Pig because her RBTs can be a built-in gen slowdown by taking survivors off gens for a while). Not running ruin doesn't give you that little bit of security at the beginning of matches but it also means you don't have to babysit it at the beginning either so it's a double-edged sword really
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Never going to happen. You might as well ask for killers to be equipped with automatic rifles. You'll get the same response.
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as a killermain, i would heavily dislike that.
this would only lead the survivors attention at totems, therefore indirectly nerfing any other totem perk in existence (well, besides Haunted Grounds ofc).
if you wish to play with Ruin, equip it. but please do not force it uppon other players like me, who play without the perk (and do so rather succesfully i might add).
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Survivors are already OP, that's why killers need a buff. Buffing survivors in exchange for buffing killer won't solve the problem.
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I think that gens need to be moderately slower and in compensation for that ruin should have a little nerf, because it can last all the match along and normally all 4 survivors would be dead, or it lasts less than one minute and the match vanishes in less than 5 minds. So if gens were slower, killers wouldn't need to use ruin every time in order to get a decent match.
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Get to what?
I play without ruin. Losing 1 or 2 gens in the beginning of the game whilst you have no pressure is OK. You're supposed to stall survivors gen progress once you start injuring and hooking them
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Survivors are not OP, they just aren't. And giving killers ruin as basekit won't solve the problem either, it'll make a survivor's playtime miserable and killers rely too much on it. In higher ranks, it won't make much of a difference, but in low ranks the game would become killer sided. The real problems are with map design, this is what makes survivors seem "OP".
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Gotta disagree. Play some games without it and the clock in your head will adjust. Gotta break chases sooner sometimes.
Split pressure as much as you can and you can still do fine.
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