This is NOT a Casual Game
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You can't really call it competitive when you can't even define winning and losing.
What makes a killer win, a 4k? Does he lose if he only gets a 3k and someone escapes through the hatch?
Can a survivor claim victory if they get 0 gens done but get out the hatch with a key?
There is a LOT of gray area where neither side can claim victory so you can't really call this game competitive.
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You can't call a game with zero competitive integrity a competitive game.
Full of RNG, there's no clear win or loss, the ranking system is an absolute joke.
DBD is MUCH closer to a party game than a competitive game. Calling it competitive is an insult to competitive games as a whole. We can start thinking about it when the randomness is reduced by like 80%,
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Devs calling it "play for fun" game but never experienced what it is to play Killer at red ranks.
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are you talking about league of legends?
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The game is full of RNG and players who don’t play as often as others. It’s way too wishy washy to be considered a competitive game. Why do people want this game to be competitive?
It’s not 100% casual but it’s more on the casual side than competitive.
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the game is casul a game this unbalanced cant be competitive.
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This is a casual game my friend, RNG makes the maps either easy or hard. It is only competitive in the higher ranks as people play like its live or die
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Don’t forget that people speed run cookie clicker....
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There are several unbalanced competitive games. That’s your opinion of what competitive means, not what the actual definition is.
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is casUUUUUUUl this game will never ever be competitive, dont get me wrong if i hurted the feelings of someone with 7k hours thinking he is the real ######### at the game, is casul is not a competitive game.
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Your being an ass and lashing out because "I'm right I don't need to prove it but I just know it." Sure buddy.
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That's only true for survivors
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@TheCrookedMan if dbd isnt casual game but competitive answer me those questions:
1) how there are survivors with 100h in red ranks (and those 100h players are bad af)
2) how there are survivors with 2k+ hours in rank 17 (without deranking on purpose)
3) why the same map can have twice more pallets than same map generated in next game
4) why 4men swf is allowed
5) killer can prep agains survs but survs cant prep vs killer
6) show me "pro player" that lives only from money from dbd tournament (not streaming)
7) why monthly rank reset exist (its existing is better for casual players) and i know it was nerfed but you know how much comminity is against it
8) how fair are killers red add ons (because most sweaty i mean "competitive" killers are using best possible add ons, and if you assume this game is competitive they should get better without them so they can use it in tournaments KEKW)
9) why survs soloQ in red ranks is such a mess ( its so hard to find good survivor)
there is maybe 5% of playersbase that thinks this game can or could be competitive, and this % is too small to work with, we cant even have other gamemode because playerbase is too small xd
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This game is not casual, but it's not competitive either. Competitive games require some degree of predictability and this game lacks that almost entirely except for some pallets. Also, every character on survs can use every perk at any time which results in busted perk combos. Same for killers. It's NOT truly competitive, as it isn't nearly balanced enough.
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1.) That depends on the person, and you'd have to show me statistics for this.
2.) Rank reset while taking a step back from the game will bring you down. And again statistics. You have to factoring in if the derank wasn't the intention or not. It may very from person to person.
3.) That's something to ask the devs.
4.) Because it's commercial suicide if it didn't exist. The game would suffer a lot more if people couldn't play with each other. That doesn't mean it's not broken. It's so broken that the devs literally have to balance around it.
5.) They can ONLY see items. No add ons and no perks. Plus it's 1 v 4 you can aspect the killer to get more advantages like this.
6.) As I said before, that has to do if people WANT to be competitive. It's not about how far people want to go it's about how far they are willing to go. Besides if you sell apples, but people don't want your apples it's still an apple.
7.) I don't know how this contributed to the discussion but my guess would be to give you something to work towards if you come back from quitting. That's something you'd have to ask the devs.
8.) False. Terribly false. Being Competative means using your BEST resources. Being Competative isn't about getting better its about being as good as you can get. It assumes that you and you're opponent are on equal skill, so you want to up your chances of winning with such add ons, for both killers and survivors. Also calling someone sweaty because they want to win more than you do is immature.
9.) Because there aren't a lot of killers. As far as fun goes losing as a killer is a lot more miserable than losing as survivor.
Also where'd you get those stats at the end?
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The game is casual.
Yes farting can be made competitive too but that doesnt mean it is a good thing to do. Looking at the game from a competitive side only shows the ugly truth about unbalance in this game which gladly is ignored as ignorance is bliss.
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where im getting my stats from? i sometimes check worst teammates profiles and indeed they have 130-200h and R1,
i hit my 1st R1 as surv in within 130h (and i had rank reset in between and i dont consider myself as prodigy) it was over 2 years ago and now its even easier to pip for survs
but to summarize those points
rank system doesnt support competitiveness (because its dropping good players from high ranks)
maps doesnt support it also
option to play with friends too
they can look at survs profile to check swf or hours
still not competitive show up
best vs best but you dont want best from survs which is swf (because survs stuff is butchered by now)
devs dont support competitiveness (ballancing around casuals)
so yea, this game is competitive ;)
from where i took that last 5%? sory it was way way way way way too much
4% of players got R1 surv achievement
2,3% got R1 killer (and you can easly guess ppl can have both) so you can easly assume 5%
but now its getting funny not every surv/killer which hit R1 wants this game to be competitive but i can bet my money every surv and killer that plays enough (if you want this game to be competitive you will play that much) will hit R1
so now those 5% is shattered to (probably) below 1% (or not even sure if 0,1% or 0,01%)
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dbd is a party like game that can be somewhat competitive, there’s just too much rng for the game to be purely competitive
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It's closer to casual than it is competitive sooooo... It's considered casual
Much like how 5.5 is closer to 6 than 5 so it's rounded to 6 all the time
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I'd agree, but that's what perks and add ons are for to help levy this, don't you agree?
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Do you know how Super Smash Bros works? There's casual/party and ranked games - in casual items are allowed to spawn and all stages, no matter how messy, are in rotation, while in ranked there are no items and only omega stages are in (meaning, they are basically all the same plain field).
In tournaments then there are certain rules in place, but still: no silly stages and no items.
One can play SSB competitively (*it's not competative, I don't know why you write it like that every time) even in casual mode, because it's a competition all the same where someone wins and someone loses (duh!), but if you really want to understand which player is better, you have to go in ranked or, better, play tournaments with artificially made rules.
In DbD there's not this separation. Items are allowed (keys, mori, add-on, BNP, commodius...), silly stages are allowed (and that's not simply the unbalanced maps, it's every map due to heavy rng in tiles, totem spawns, items in chests etc.), swf is allowed (where the game is currently not balanced against it).
...even artificially made rules like survivors can't use items, Claudette is banned, no add-ons wouldn't be enough to make the game a predominantly competitive one, since right now you can't choose a certain configuration of map, and RNG can change everything.
But that's the good of DbD: ever changing, silly, unpredictable, casual :).
You take that out, it would become evident how flawed the game is, competitively speaking: as a survivor rush generators, stay separated and learn the optimal path for every pallet / window and correctly connect the tiles for every map (which wouldn't be random, mind you) - as a killer master Nurse or Spirit, and that's it. I'm uninstalling now :).
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Life is not in black and white. Why does this game have to be? It can be all sorts of gray
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Comparing Smash to Dead by Daylight is comparing apples to broccoli. One is a fighting game and the other is an asymmetrical horror game not defined by wave dashing, flying slams or blocks. What makes a fighting game Competative and what makes a game like dead by Daylight are whole different. Items in to compensate for a lack of power they have that the killer has however being a more limited resource.
And the thing is you're not supposed to take any of that out save for maybe Moris and Keys. It's more like WOW or LOL, where you are versing builds to fit in a team rather than just bare bones characters.
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*competitive
I think you didn’t get the point of why rng alone prevents DbD to be more than a casual (but not stupid!) game.
As I said, though, remove the rng = remove the fun.
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imo, perks and add ons are to help you with things that your skill/character lacks, they dont really help against the pure rng where shack can spawn next to a long wall jungle gym
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Any game with a challenge is competitive, even Super Mario Brothers (Speed runners). Doesn't mean they aren't casual as well. A game like DbD draws from both crowds and can rightly be called a casual competitive game.
It might not be professional able, needs balanced better and numerous other things before it can be a professional sport, but tournaments and things like Twitch Challenges exist to let players compete against each other. There's also the 1v4 nature of the game that is competitive.
It draws more from the casual crowd though, imo at least. Most people I play with/against are looking for a fun match within the rules of the game. They want to win, but they don't go sweaty tryhard like you would if you are competing for a prize.
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I agree with you the most
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You realize there was a "tournament" on twitch in which everyone literally just goofed around, right?
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I think it's too broken fundamentally to really be competitive, I would honestly say it is more competitive-casual.
It's a competitive type game but it's meant to just be enjoyed as is. Customs I suppose would make for a slightly more competitive environment, but even then the way the game was designed and balanced to begin with just wouldn't agree with any serious competitive situations.
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Wait wait wait... You are telling me that dbd, an asymmetric game. . . Can be competitively balanced? Hmm, that requires constants and with constants predictability. Since survivors don't have unique perks themselves they would run meta perks obviously (though there would be maybe some variety since survivors aren't tied to a specific playstyle) which means top tier players know how to counter them if they can. Killer has to also rely on the mistakes of survivors in order to win. AKA being out positioned or being greedy on a loop. Since the only skill is looping and with loops, mindgames. Plus what counts as "a win". Do the tourney count a win if 3 or more survivors escape or are killed? Because if it's based on kill, well survivor's aren't going to win with an ebony. Unless that's not allowed, but then we get into the issue of balanced since then we would need a unique map that is 50/50 on the fairness each side as well then and no map offerings. Or offerings in general. Same with items, which should be if the killer is using addons. With that being said, are there any asymmetric games that are considered competitive?
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I saw this thread and it made me think. I came here just to relax after my Overwatch matches, but I've found out that this game is competitive as hell too. And it's sad. Now I'm looking for another game which is truly casual. BTW, talking about Overwatch - I like only PVP in Overwatch, other stuff in that game sucks. That's why I just used Overwatch boost instead of leveling up my character. But in this game... well, it's bad that I've mistaken. It clearly is NOT casual and relaxing.
Post edited by BaronSamedi on0 -
definition of competition
Competition arises whenever at least two parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared: where one's gain is the other's loss.
so by definition dead by daylight can be and is. and too much rng? hearthstone has a very active tournament scene and that game has a ton of game winning rng.
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dive kick
edit=also if you play any arc system fighters they literally have a system to mash 1 button and it inputs a whole combo for you.
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You can minimize RNG by Deckbuilding. This does not work for DBD - you cannot do anything about a Map spawning full of Pallets in the middle or with a giant Deadzone.
Skill is not relevant when something like this happens, the dumbest Killer can catch a Survivor in a Deadzone and the most skilled Survivor will have problems there.
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"You can minimize RNG by Deckbuilding"
i dont think you know anything about card games, Some of the best cards in hearthstone are rng why would you want to take them out also i used to play in yugioh local tournaments all the time and you can get a hand where you win in the first turn just because you drew all the right cards people even call them ftk (first turn kills) or otk (one turn kills) just because something has rng in it does not make it any less competitive just less skill oriented.
edit= or poker, Poker is all rng and bluffing is poker not competitive?
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"i dont think you know anything about card games"
I am working for a card game company for 9 years now as a volunteer...And while I know that Cardgames are RNG, I also know that the player makes a lot when it comes to reaching the Top Cuts.
And well, sure the best cards are RNG, but you can also search them. Its not like those cards are played as a One-Off, if I want to have a Field Spell, I play cards which let me search a Field Spell, to minimize the RNG. Instead of playing 3 copies of a card, I have 6 copies of a card.
However, the player has much more influence over what he is playing and how he is playing it. This does only apply to DBD to an extend. Sure, most likely the better player will win, but there is some stuff in this game where even the best players cannot really do anything when the other side is a little bit competent. Like, lets say Shack spawns with the Window facing to a Jungle Gym Window. If the Survivor is somewhat decent, they know how to run those Tiles, and the Killer will not really have a chance to catch them (if we assume it is a Killer who needs to loop).
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DBD is whatever you make it to be. For me it is casual because as of late i couldn't care less if i win or lose. I don't play to climb ranks since i get matched with every rank that exists regardless.
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dude you said "DBD cannot be competitive." which BY DEFINITION is wrong, take your L and sit down.
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DBD has competitive aspects but it can't be defined as competitive for a few reasons:
1) No defined win condition - that's the biggest thing that prevents DBD from being called competitive. Like what's the final goal of the game? To get a pip? To escape/kill? To get bloodpoints? Everyone can define that for themselves and that's great on casual level as DBD can attract different people. But that's not how competitive games work.
2) Too many thing that completely turn the table balance wise. Keys and mori come to mind first.
3) Too much RNG. Unpredictability can make a game fun but it definiely doesn't make it competitive as the luck factor is way too strong.
Of course a lot of that can be done by the community. The community can define a clear win and loss conditions and can ban some unbalanced stuff. They even can limit the selection of maps to try and leave out only those that are least affected by the RNG.
Then the game will become competitive but only within the circle that will treat it as such. But you can't expect every single player or even the majority of players to treat it that way.
So no, it's a casual game with competitive aspects.
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Amazing technique - not saying anything in regards to my points and simply declaring yourself as the "winner" of this discussion.
But well, I am fine to agree to disagree.
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"A game is as conpetitive as a player can make it"
Well there you go then. It' EXACTLY as you said in your own words. If you want to treat it and play it competitively you do that, if you want to play casually and not care about surviving/kills/rank then its casual for you, you cant just give it a blanket statement like that to cover every player in the playerbase
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This.
I play always using a randomizer and set myself goals. If I achieve my goals, it doesn't concern me whether I 0k or 4k; survive or die. It's interesting to understand why some are so insistent on telling others whether a game should be competitive or not.
And as for the "Meta", the randomizer has given me mediocre perks, which still led to achieving a survival or 4k against higher ranks, and I've had an excellent build and been wrecked. Each trial brings its own challenges, and the only person I'm ultimately concerned with is myself and aiming for those goals.
In short, play how you want.
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This is actually true of any game, too. People can choose to be competitive and people can choose to play casually.
Want to play custom SC2 games with friends where you don't attack for 20 minutes? Sure, totally fine. Want to only play the CPU or campaign modes? Totally cool.
Want to only play SF5 but don't want to learn frame data or combos or anything else and just want to throw fireballs because it looks cool? Completely acceptable in the game design and you'll be ranked low enough to fight other casual players and maybe even have a lot of fun.
This could all be true in DbD as well, but the issue DbD has is a lack of functioning matchmaking. So people who want to be casual and people who want to be competitive end up in the same matches. Maybe the new system will fix this, who knows.
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This is also very true and a really good point. I'm not really going to complain about matchmaking anymore because the issue has been acknowledged and is being completely overhauled so there's really no point (i know you're not complaining either btw, just stating the facts), though I do think we should be able to see ranks/mmr level in the new system rather than hide it like is planned.
I wouldn't consider myself very competitive, I like trying niche perk combos and synergies and I'd rather let myself die than a decent teammate but I've still ended up at rank 5 somehow just because I've been playing more over the past few weeks so a lot of the time I either have to bring perks like ds (which I actually really hate wasting a slot on because it's so boring) or I barely get a decent game
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You have said what I have always wanted to say. I will add to that and say that this game even has its own "hardcore" culture. There are rules akin to that of playing street basketball. Casual games do not have unspoken rules like this. Like any competitive game you will face humiliation if you perform actions that are deemed "unhonorable". There's also the fact that the game punishes you when you lose, it pushes you to be competitive.
There's also expectations surrounding this game. Now, this is what I gathered from the responses here but the survivors are seeking a competitive experience akin to COD while the killers want this game to actually be a horror game, between the two I'd say the latter is not possible. This game is a glorified sports skin with a horror theme. It's tag. I gave up wanting a horror game a long time ago. Dead by Daylight is fast pace action. I wish the developers will actually bare this in mind and stop being stubborn, whatever original vision they had is gone.
((Have to point out here that this is not a dig at survivors, but both sides seem to expect different things from the game.))
Now if you want a casual game that actually feels like fun horror then you'll have to play Friday the 13th, or Deceit. While it makes sense to take Dead by Daylight seriously, it's cringy when people do it with Friday the 13th. Friday does not punish you for losses, rank actually does not matter, and even the act of farming is strange since you're going to be awarded no matter what.
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Interesting thread. I do believe there is skill in DBD. The more knowledge you have about everything, the better you are for it. Skill synergy, map spawns, killer plays, survivor plays, mind gaming, and so on. There's a lot to learn, and some people just have a more natural inclination for mind gaming even, which gives them an edge.
Esports calibur? No. Granted, I've not been apart of any Esports communities besides Rocket League, which is a very different game. There's just no way to define skill in it's totality here. A lot of it is getting lucky, where as people in Rocket League train for thousands of hours to have a better feel for the controls and make insane plays you can't do without that training.
I will say though I think DBD is one of the most entertaining games to watch because of how random it is. I don't like watching people play most video games for long periods of time, but DBD is a strong exception. It's fun.
And of course all games are as competitive as you make them. I'm not a card shark, but I can make Go Fish competitive if I'm in the mood, lol.
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"Casual games do not have unspoken rules like this"
Absolutely not, almost every game where you compete has players who feel that certain tactics are cheap and shouldn't be used.
Mario Party - don't steal my keys!
Mario Kart - you can't use red shells!
Minecraft - don't destroy my house!
Guitar Hero - don't use the power ups!!
etc. etc.
Funny enough you mention street Basketball - a casual form of regular basketball. There are no such rules when competitive teams play, the ref won't blow his whistle if you keep passing to the same player.
I agree with the horror aspect, but I wonder if that's truly possible. When I first started playing this game i was scared of the heartbeat, and ######### got real intense when I was hiding or running. Now after getting used to the game, I run around the map without a care, unafraid of the killer. Even if a game focused solely on the horror aspect, after a while I think everyone would get used to it. Amnesia is said to be one of the scariest games, but if you play that 50 times in a row, it's not going to be scary at all.
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LMFAO I play this game on Switch, in hand held mode(Yes, BOTH my joy sticks are ######### up beyond hope and joy cons are stupid ######### expensive to replace), AT WORK(which is a convenience store that can have anywhere from 2 to 5 people inside at once and they can each take up to 7 minutes or so deciding what they want, digging for change and small talking) forcing me to LITERALLY PUT DOWN THE SYSTEM and get ######### done and I STILL walka way with 4K matches. "This is not a casual game" LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Ive said this before, theres nothing casual about a game where you spend hundreds of hours getting good with 1 character. Its stupid to think otherwise. Its a competitive game that can be played casually
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