"Gen-rushing"
Very unpopular opinion, I know about 90% or so of everyone who sees this will be against me, but I personally don't think that "gen-rushing" exists. The survivors just do generators, as they're supposed to do, but sometimes they get them done really quick because the killer doesn't apply pressure. That's either the fault of the person playing the killer because they're either focusing one survivor or they refuse to get in chases for more than 15 seconds, or the fault of the character because many killers have poor map pressure. Then you take into account the map you're in, and that factors either way as well. The point is, I believe that "gen-rushing" isn't an actual thing, it's just what killers (and even some survivors) say when they don't put pressure on gens, either on purpose or because of their character.
I play both sides evenly, so don't come at me with the whole "survivor main myeh" bull.
Comments
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Yeah, I got attacked in my thread “Killers and Tunneling”.
I play both sides, mostly a killer main.
I don’t believe in “gen-rushing” because that’s literally the objective for survivors. Killers have counters to it. My post was about killers tunneling survivors from the start of a game til they died without being able to properly play and end up losing a pip. The argument was, tunneling is an effective strategy because survivors can “gen-rush”.
The term is loosely used by killers with poor pressure or that strictly focus on tunneling.
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yup genrush doesnt exist, its excuse used by killers to blame when they lost
ofc map desing is a thing but even then killers should be able to tell "i didnt downed surv in 2min its normal that 3 gens popped" (because you can tell it "i was afk for 2mins") no mather if its maps fault or your (killers) you didnt done anything in 2 mins(example) xd
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Yeah I actually was just reading through your thread and was seeing all of the arguments about "counter/punish gen-rushing myeh myeh" so I figured I should make this to allow people that agree with me to voice that they agree with a person that agrees with them. That's a lot of agreement lmao.
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Survivors gen-rush, killers kill-rush, and Super Mario jump-rushes. All unfair, pls nerf.
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Yeah it's like whenever I see a killer complain about "gen-rush" I just think to myself "Well maybe you should've played better or applied better pressure." Of course, the pressure isn't always the killer's fault, but it often is.
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Gen rushing is imo the term used when people are really mad about how fast gens are being done, but instead of blaming the in game mechanics that allow gens to be done that fast, blame survivors since that makes them feel better. It’s the only objective of survivors, of course they’re going to want to stick on them and finish them, that’s only logical. That doesn’t mean gens don’t go too fast when survivors are playing well. So I guess my opinion can be boiled down to “gen rushing doesn’t exist but gen speed is too fast for it to be the only objective”
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Lmao.
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Yeah that's fair. I've seen many people talking about adding a secondary objective for survivors to do before they can do gens, but I kinda don't agree because then it would feel more like Farming Simulator. Lmao but yeah, I agree that many people probably believe that the speed of the gens themselves is too quick, not the survivors'.
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Yeah, my argument was it’s unfair for survivors to de-pip for being tunneled early-game.
Gen-rush is a terrible excuse.
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Tunneling is most certainly a "thing". When you get unhooked and the Killer runs right by other Survivors that were standing in his way to distract him and chases you halfway across the map, twice........that's Tunneling.
It's annoying but not a big deal. As the ranking system doesn't really mean anything, I only play for the BP's to "finish" a character (had Claudette done until the most recent Survivor was released).
I play with two of my kids and we aren't great by any means. We have some good games and some bad games. I think there was an info-graphic a while back that disproved all the claims of "every group being a 4 man SWF" by a significant margin.
When you play games to actually have fun instead of trying to prove something to someone in a game without a legitimate ranking system, you're just going to frustrate yourself. If there was a true ranking system, then I could understand all the insanity and complaining (I see it when my boys play other games like HotS).
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If 3 gens pop in your first chase as killer, unless all the survivors are running NASA toolboxes with BNPs, you took too long to end that chase, period. And that's on you.
Knowing when to give up a chase is a skill all killers should have before calling themselves decent killers.
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Yeah sometimes survivors get the gens really quick because the gens are fast.
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Gen-rushing is certainly a problem. For some lower tier Killers, there is no way to apply enough pressure. However, I don't think it is entirely their fault. What else are they supposed to do? They are just playing efficiently.
Just like how Killers "tunneling" is their way of playing efficiently.
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how can someone apply pressure to 4 gens at once? just wondering
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I keep remembering that glorious vid from Marth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxkk5sH6zRI
All 4 survivors can do that at once. Not a genrush, nothing to see.
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It can take you about 30 seconds to find a survivor.
30 seconds to down the survivor.
10 seconds to pick him up and hook him.
20 seconds to walk to a gen that is being worked on.
Those are 90 seconds and in 90 seconds 3 gens can pop (even with ruin), but it's not because the chase took too long and I don't think a killer that can end a chase in 30 seconds is a bad killer.
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You’re talking literal best case scenario.
It takes 80 seconds without ruin for a single survivor without a toolbox to complete a gen. With the best toolbox, 60 seconds, solo, no ruin. Add the 3-5% regression for Good Skill checks and the 0% regression/progression for Great Skill checks. The chances of 3 generators popping, with ruin, and you getting a survivor is slim.
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corrupt intervention, discordance,fire up ,franklins demise ,huntress lullaby ,Ruin, Mind breaker ,overcharge,pop goes the weasel,surveillance ,tinkerer , Thanatophobia, thrilling tremors, unnerving presence
Its not just about you being at the gen. Your perks help a lot with pressure.
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While it doesn't happen all the time, it does happen; I've genrushed killers and been genrushed many times after almost 2k hours of play. How many times in total? Not really sure, but enough time for me to notice there's a problem, because I think something like this should not be able to happen at all.
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"just pressure gens"
Oh, sorry for not being able to be at 7 places at thee same time.
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You see those perks I’ve mentioned? They apply pressure to gens. Gen-rushing is such an excuse for poor pressure or gameplay as a killer. You brought up a best case that I RARELY see. Not including, every survivor must not miss a skill check, the killer must not touch those gens, and the killer must be running very low-level perks to not counter a gen rush. You can spot a gen-rush team in the pregame lobby. There’s no excuse for not adjusting.
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Survivors never spawn all on separate gens unless the killer burns an offering for that.
If and only if they spread out, they'll also take quite some time to find separate gens to work on.
If they do that, you'll most likely find at least one of them while you're chasing another one, in which case you should drop the chase and disrupt the gen.
You're all assuming that they'll 1. work on separate gens 2. you won't find a single one of them while you're chasing the first 3. they won't 3-gen themselves, because if they do they lose 4. your first chase will take over 80 seconds. At least half of that is under your control.
And if they bring OP stuff, so can you.
As I said on another discussion, don't play like a bot and you'll find yourself being "genrushed" a lot less.
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Tbh, I hate when survs gen rush me... but when I play surv, bet your booty I'm gonna do these gens asap lol
To me, a gen rush happens naturally to a killer when they dont apply enough pressure. That's not the survs fault. That's the killers fault... and I'm a killer main lol
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BINGO!
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Ruin is useless if you play against survivors who can consistenly hit hex skill checks and when there are three of them working on three different gens.
Discordance will not give you any information when 3 gens can pop in 90 seconds.
I rarely play against killers running corrupt intervention (most killers I play against run ruin), so I can't really how much that helps.
The other perks you mentioned require you to end a chase and down the survivor, but like I said, three gens can pop even if you end the chase in 30 seconds; which denies you the chance to use discordance, pop or overcharge.
Genrush doesn't happen when more than one survivor are working on the same gen, it will most likely happen when you have three different survivors working on three different gens.
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Ok, to reply to Ugum, I said GEN-RUSHING, not tunneling.
For most everyone else, I said multiple times that it's not always the player's fault if they don't apply pressure. It could be the killer they're playing as, the map they're on, or both.
Then like LustForBP said, there are PLENTY of perks that killers can use that will ambiently apply pressure to gens. The sad part is, many killers know this, but they complain when they get "gen-rushed" even though they said they don't WANT to use good perks. Like, I get that, but there's no way to perfectly balance the game to make every perk viable against every other perk in the game. It just won't happen. So people either need to use good perks so they CAN apply good pressure, or if they don't want to use good perks, they can just not complain that they were "gen-rushed".
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Sure, but the survivors working on separate gens isn't "gen-rushing", it's playing smart.
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Yeah, people use the term "Gen Rushing" when they lose. Like, I have had games where the Killer called a "Genrush" when it took like 10 minutes to complete all Gens. In 10 minutes you would have to complete around 8 or 9 Gens to call it a Genrush.
But content creators spread the narrative. A Youtube Thumbnail aka "4 Gens in 3 minutes!" attracts more than the real 13 minute game, where the Killer got a 4K, because the Survivor 3genned themselfes...
It does not matter how many Gens are done in the early stages of the game, sure Gens are going fast at the start, no one needs to be saved from the Hook, nobody is getting chased and IF someone is getting chased, this person has all ressources. The Killer has no pressure at all, so sure that Survivors can do Gens.
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I wouldn't say that killers have NO pressure at the start of a match, just very very little. But yeah, content creators certainly don't help. I get they're trying to make content to satisfy their viewers, but they don't realise that they're often spreading toxicity throughout the community.
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Different people have different definitions fo the term genrush; to me genrush is simply a thing that the game allows you to do, which is being able to finish 3 gens in 90 seconds or so. If you don't like calling that genrush and prefer calling it "playing smart" then go ahead, but in my opinion genrush is not playing smart, because as a solo survivor you have no way to tell if there are others working on two separate gens, you are simply doing what you are supposed to do.
I can only speak for myself here, but when I play a game I do it because I want to have fun. In someone wants to coordiante a genrush on comms I wouldn't consider it smart either, because it's boring, the game will most likely end in 7 minutes, I will most likely safety pip and escape with 15k bloodpoints or even less. As a survivor main I find those matches really boring and not worth my time.
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I guess we view genrush in different ways.
I view genrush as: There's nothing else to do as a primary objective, so them going purely for Generators is a given.
But because miscellaneous tasks are ignored and the focus is almost purely on the Generators, if they're done within a small-enough time window, i would then view it as a genrush.
And no, that's not me saying: "You all should go for all Totems!"
Heck, i like Killer more, but i don't even really view genrush as a bad thing, just unfun sometimes.
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Can't upvote this enough. The "apply pressure" crowd must never play an M1 killer on Mt Ormond or Purgation. It can take 40 seconds to cross the map to where the survivors spawn if you get bad RNG on some maps. That's an entire gen without Ruin when toolboxes come into play. No amount of pressure changes a math problem.
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"If" you get bad rng, "if" you're in some maps, "if" they have toolboxes, "if" they work through Ruin, "if" you have no CI.
Guess what, "if" you play killer on Azarov and they get bad spawn RNG the game is rigged in your favor too. This goes for both sides. How about we stop trying to balance the game around the worst case scenario that happens 1 out of 2000 times
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I more meant 'playing smart' as not being on the same gens and traveling in a pack the entire match. Sure, I get that it is boring, just doing gens and escaping, but sometimes that's all you can do. Also by 'playing smart', I meant that at least YOU know that you're on a gen by yourself, so you can hope that there's at least ONE other gen being done. All I ever do in games is play to have fun as well, but there are so many people complaining about this that and the other constantly, so it kinda ruins it already. Then being on the same gen, traveling together, not talking strategy is also boring for me. And by 'strategy' I just mean like who's going to break the totem we pass by, or who will open the gate for the points. Little things like that.
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You have never seen true horror than seeing 4 survivors switch to Claudette at the very last second all armed with tool boxes. And then seeing 3 greater mist offerings and a swamp offering pop up.
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No, thankfully not. Although I'm sorry that you have. Sounds like torture.
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Yeah I agree, the objective, whether it's the gens being done or the killer killing the survivors, is done really quickly, it does usually end up being a really boring game.
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Oh it really wasn't as bad as it sounded. I got a 4k they were really bad at looping.they only got 3 gens done with ruin still standing.
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I'm not sure if this is directed at me specifically, but I do just want to point out that I have said many times that it's not always the player's fault for poor map pressure.
And as for this, exactly. It's very rare that a killer gets the worst possible scenario when they get into a match, so they should definitely work on balancing the common things rather than the super rare things.
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Yeah I figured it would have gone well, I more just meant seeing it then not being 100% sure if you were about to be covered with toxicity or not must've been torture.
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I’ve literally been found within the first 5 seconds of a game starting for the past three weeks.
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The simple fact is that the game has been around long enough for people to point out the flaws: survivor objectives are static, killer objectives are not. What does this mean? Survivor objectives don't require any interaction with the killer whereas every killer objective requires survivor interaction. That aspect will never change, so the (killer) community will not ever be happy. Especially since the devs balance with the worst survivor players in mind, so god tier survivors are almost never affected.
Oh and saying "just pressure gens mate" is a copout. Optimal survivor teams will always pressure you faster than you can pressure their gens. Its rare, but when every survivor can loop/land skill checks then you're ######### out of luck unless you're playing one of the big three killers. The only weak survivors are solos.
So while gen rush isn't exactly real, it represents a fundamental flaw in this game. Survivor objectives are too easy.
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Ok i'll say it immediately, I didn't read all the comments so it might allready been said.
I agree with what i read from the person who post this as well as some comments did.
There are some big maps that can really hurt the killer no matter how well you play (think of trapper on blood lodge for example), the gen speed in general is imo pretty fast (3 survivors can do 5 gens in about 3:30 min), then there are (and maybe some will disagree with it) who really play for a gen rush.
On that last one, I've faced several teams with prove thyself, green or purple toolboxes with either brand new parts or other high add ons, and 1 survivor with a rainbow map.
And as you might guess, the perk ruin doesn't stay up long and the others will all 3 work together on the same gens.
So yeah sometimes it is a thing but that's only when survivors actually play for it.
Otherwise it's mostly the gen speed in general that is just to fast.
And like the person who posted this, i play both sides at rank 1 and i am making it myself harder like running with my nea all purple (so hiding gets harder), no items, sometimes no perks or no mither, just so i have more to do and the game takes a bit longer.
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If survivors go into the match with the sole purpose of doing gens asap at hte expensive of everything else then yes, gen rushing does exist.
all toolboxes to make it faster
perks setup to make it as fast as possible
no saving, just gens, then leave.
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As you say, "gen-rushing" does exist. It simply means survivor are not wasting time with unneccessary stuff and do the gens as quickly as possible. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact its the most effective way to play as survivor.
Everything you wrote is correct.
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While I'm one to say "just apply more pressure" against survivors that take 80 seconds each to complete a gen, its abit different when survivors are stacking toolboxes/addons/perks to pump them out significantly faster than 80 seconds each. I just use this screenshot here as an example.
And they sent me to Haddonfield too, lol
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Exactly as i described a few minutes ago.
Imo they should reduce the general gen speed and leave the toolboxes and add ons as they are.
So when they use toolboxes it gets as fast as they are now without toolboxes.
That way toolboxes have a normal purpose instead of using to rush the gens (most of the time), and nit using it makes it as it suggests slower off course.
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That would just make gen speeds incredibly slow for anyone NOT using a toolbox. IMO, they need to just set a limit on extremes. They already noticed extreme slowdowns when looking at "Forever Freddy". They need to set a ceiling for how slow actions can get as well as how fast they can get.
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Correct gen rush doesnt exist....
How bout we call it "poor objective design", that seems like a better way of saying it, yeah? Since that's what the gens are.
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True, or make it so that when not using toolboxes it becomes just slightly slower (a term bhvr loves instead of giving it actual numbers), and when they use toolboxes it becomes the speed it is now without toolboxes.
So not incredibly slow just a tiny bit slower.
But i also like the one from you where there's a limit of what you can take.
They do that with offerings as well, where there are 2 of the same offerings, 1 person gets the offering back
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