"Gen-rushing"
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I figured with a limit...it would work to offset what the other player has without going into crazy extremes. If we set the limit for a 25% boost to gen speed for example, you could STILL bring in stuff to give you more than 25%...you just wouldnt see an increase beyond 25% right away. Any excess beyond 25% could then be applied once things are being applied to slow you down. Bring a toolbox that gives an extra 40%...you get 25% of that. The killer is using slowdown stuff that slows you down by 15%, now you get the full value of the +40% box to put your speeds back to a +25%.
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It sounds good but what you then would see (just guessing) is 3 survivors working on 3 seperarte gens with the best toolboxes because it will take just 60 sec instead of 80 sec because of the 25% repair boost.
So while 1 is getting chased within 1 minutes 3 gens are done.
And the best toolboxes aren't depleted after 1 gen so they can all 3 rush 3 separate other gens to spread the chances.
Imo just slowing the general gen speed down a bit will allready help a lot
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Like I said though, that would punish those people NOT using toolboxes. to reuse your same scenerio here with a small change...
You're chasing 1 person with 3 other people working on separate gens without ANYTHING speeding them up...so just 80 seconds each.
Do you have a problem with THIS? If not...theres no reason to change the base speeds.
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This guy get it.
Add to that bad map design and weaker killers and you get why the complains about "gen rush" exist. And toolboxes of course, lets not forget thoses.
The gen rush might not be a thing by itself, but there are multiple factors in this game that when put together create the problem know as gen rush. You can't solve the gen rush. You can only address the issues that create it to begin with.
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lol relax mate, I'm not here to fight you.
I'm only giving my thoughts here about this subject and yours nothing more.
It is allready 80 sec no when 1 person is working on it, 2 people on it is a bit over 40 sec i believe.
Im talking here about teams that go for a gen rush and not solo playing (and I see them a lot in the red ranks, don't know about the lower ranks tho).
So if they know the devs change it to your idea, then the 3 split up.
Doing nothing about the gen speed and they look for eachother and rush on the same gen with the perks and boxes.
Again I'm nit here to fight you, just giving my ideas and findings
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Im not being heated here, although its hard to judge tone based off text. My point was simply that its not really Gen-rushing when were just looking at the base numbers. 3 people doing gens at normal speeds currently is fine and really shouldnt be touched. If your problem is the INCREASE in speeds, the solution should be centered on that. Your solution of nerfing base speeds would affect EVERYONE, not just the people stacking gen speed perks/items.
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Does that mean gens getting done fast doesn't exist either?
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most killers can't put on pressure. yea, I lost while playing clown and leatherface because i wasn't pressuring enough, sure.
Say whatever you want to deny that there are no problems with the game, the exact same mindset as the devs (remember the "just play Civ 5" meme?)
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Gen Rush has become an exclusive excuse for poor judgement/play/tactics/time management on the killer side.
Even though you know the tools are there to slow gens down if you find that it is an issue in your own personal matches.
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That is true, but because you used caps it looked like you got a bit angry or something.
But I do think it is still pretty fast as it is now.
How many times are you working on yourself on a gen?
I personally work most of the times with at least 2 on 1 gen, and i play solo.
So even as a solo survivor i think the gen speed is pretty high.
Even when i try to make the games longer than 8 minutes i fail at it as survivor.
I let myself getting chased, do totems, walk from gen to gen etc and still the games last about 8 minutes
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I rarely experience true gen rushing (defined as survivors kitted specifically to do generators in the most optimal time possible using a combination of perks/toolboxes). I feel like I'm resurrecting a dead horse just to beat it to death like everyone else on this forum, BUT.. other objectives outside of generators could help remedy this problem. Of course, if you're BVHR, why put effort into good solutions when you can release more skins people will buy because sunk cost fallacy is OP?
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I think instead of trying to fix gen speeds, they should just get rid of gens and put in more involved and more fair objective(s).
Last Year isn't perfect, but at least they know to put in objectives that isn't just "press m1 for 60 seconds than leave".
But whatever, white knights will say anything deny any problems with the game.
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I agree, the devs should put in some secondary objectives.
The problem is, ( or i think it is) is that the devs aren't that great with survivors to see the flaws.
About the skins, that is an other department.
On all games there is a team who works on cosmetics only, others work on qol and so on.
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I do gens solo VERY often actually. Grouping up on a gen causes each person to suffer from a slowdown, causes each person to be affected by each other's failed ruin skillchecks and gives the killer the ability to pressure MULTIPLE people at the same time. Ive actually had several games end very quickly as Bubba due to survivors all working on the first gen together... They get downed and slugged while I chase after their teammates.
BTW, my habit of capitalizing a single word isnt meant for yelling,but rather emphasizing. I see the confusion about that now, lol.
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I'm aware that they're separate departments. Thing is, one of those departments seems to be heavily prioritized over the other, even though bugs/gameplay issues from 2+ years ago are still here. Starting to feel PRETTY BAD..
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They don't have to take away the gens but ad some more objectives.
Depanding on the white knight you talk about, if they have a shiny armour than their findings and comments should be taken with a grain of salt.
A shiny armour is never been fully tested aka only play 1 side or are probably a gen rush team.
You need knight in damaged armour as they seen wwhat it really is 😬😉
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Hahaha no worries.
Then they probably don't know how to counter bubba well 😬
He can be strong but can be countered very easily.
Well i rarely have people missing the hex skill checks when i work with them on a gen tbh.
Even if i work alone on a gen, there is always someone joining my repairing.
And when i start with someone else or with everyone together next to a gen, I'm not gonna search for a different gen.
The first 1 i will do together but then i always try to look for 1 solo but most of the time they join me then.
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I agree, it can look very bad that they are still in it or back in it (like no footsteps).
But having to search in the code for the faulty code is harder and more time consuming than designing cosmetics
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Last Year has MANY differences with DBD though, not just the objective. That game's maps are all centered towards linear goal points as opposed to just providing a sort of open arena. Last Year is also more focused on watching each other's backs and encourages the survivors to stick together due to having actual combat with the killer, while DBD is more of a cat and mouse game since survivors dont have a way of fighting the killer in this game.
One difference that I think is interesting though is the killer's map travel in Last Year. Last Year's killers arnt likely to be spotted actually WALKING from one end of the map to the other. Could be interesting to maybe employ something similar in DBD.
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I personally think gen-rushing is doing gens and not caring at all for altruism/chases, like, i had games where the survivors were doing gens only and two guys died on first hook because they didnt care at all about saving them (not a good strategy tho).
But clearly, 99% of the time, killers are crying about an issue that doesnt exist.
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"But clearly, 99% of the time, killers are crying about an issue that doesnt exist"
That's an issue that goes for both sides not only killers.
I omay both sides (you can check yt for evidence) and i personally think gen speeds are still on a bit of a high side.
I even had games where i keot pressuring the survivors and still 3 gens poped really fast.
Yeah they had toolboxes and at least 1 had prove thyself.
And i had franklins demise and ruin still up and still the 3 gens popped in about 2 minutes or less.
Sure i got them all 4 eventually with them not getting another gen.
But still, you can pressure them a lot and still the gens can go very fast.
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The last 4 man slug I had with Bubba due to that was on Blood lodge, so yeah...they screwed up. Got way too close to them due to monitor and abuse and caught them behind the cabin away from a pallet or decent jungle gym (2 of them ran to a 4 walls jungle gym and got to taste my saw). I've had the same situation pop up when survivor teams try to pump out a gen thats in a bottle neck area. Had a game where 2 secret offerings went up, which I assumed was to spawn together and as far from me as possible. They found themselves in a bottle neck dead end with the only protection being a TL wall, lol.
Grouping up is just a bad idea in general since you're not spreading pressure around the map. While it's true that SOME killer powers benifit greatly from a team being lumped together (Plague, Legion, Bubba), any killer can use it to pressure multiple survivors at once. Instead of the killer showing up to a gen and 1 person running away while 3 others get to keep pumping out gens...you have 4 people having to run away. If I spawn with my team... I'm spreading out. Might even cross the map so I can make sure we dont 3 gen ourselves later on.
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"gen rush" is a term used to describe scenarios where the survivors do the generators so fast that you, as the killer, have little to no chance to do anything against it.
this is very much a thing, especially with SWF groups with green toolboxes and BNPs.
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lol pallet heaven and they fail? 😂
That should not happen to them.
I don't know how they were watch as i rarely get caught off guard, unless it's a stealth killer.
Also if there was a locker or a tree close and the got hit by your chainsaw than they apparently don't know how to counter 😬
The thing is, a lot of killers think when I'm on 1 gen with another and he hits me first, is that i run away.
Sure i do act like i do that but I'm staying close and when he chases the other 1 i get back on the gen.
3 genning is also a thing i try to avoid, unfortunately you don't have always the right teammates for that.
And they beat you to it were they 3 gen the team.
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I always assume I DONT have the right teammates to avoid a 3 gen...so I'll be the one to go to the other side of Azaroth's resting place and make sure the killer DOESNT have the easiest endgame in the world, lol.
That screenshot I posted for the toolboxes also shows off my old Bubba build btw, thats pretty nice for getting close to ppl before they know they need to bolt to the nearest overly safe loop. Got in the habit of zoning people with the saw around basic pallet loops and forcing them into dead zones. I know how to play around lockers and trees too, lol. Infectious fright btw...another reason grouping up is bad for your health.
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I also always assume that, but sometimes it's just out of your control.
For example i had a game on the map you talke about where you can get easily 3 genned.
I was on the other side trying to do a gen, but the killer was trying to gen us 3 genned and kept pressurimg me.
There was no way in hell i could finish 1 gen on 1 side.
There other 3 were just easily doing 4 gens on the opposite side thinking they have an easy game, while i was kept in a chase, when i wasn't i waited a bit and then went back on the gen.
But yeah what are you gonna do alone on 1 side? 😂
I wish/hoped to to see you when cross play is available between ps4 and pc 😬
I only encountered 1 bubba who was actually strong but all others i could loop forever.
A long time ago even looped 1 for 7 minutes till i finally messed up 😂
Made sure they couldn't unhook me, but yeah bad teammates.
They did only 3 gens and tried to rescue me and giving him an undeserved 4 man 😂
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Tunneling/facecamping doesn't exist either, because the killer is meant to kill the survivors. It's their job. It's an excuse survivors make when they lost.
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lol i see what you did there 😬
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My point is, claiming something doesn't exist just because it's the objective, doesn't mean it's not a thing.
Gen rushing exists, just like tunneling and face camping. The difference is that gen rushing is mostly the fault of the game design. Most killers aren't mobile. A good chunk of the maps are massive. Both combined make really quick games, because gens pop in just a few minutes.
You have survivors, and even some devs, say 'just apply effective map pressure.' You really can't against even a decent team, with a low mobility killer, such as Wraith and Clown, while on a large map. That's game design, not on the part of the players.
Now, that can be exasperated by survivors, however, when they bring their toolboxes, perks, and map offerings. You can't tell me that a four man with three toolboxes, a map, and a Coldwind/Autohaven offering, aren't attempting to gen rush. Yes, gens are the objective, and yes, survivors are meant to power them as quickly as possible in order to escape, but to force a match to end as quickly as possible at the expense of the killer is just stupid. Then to go and cry when the killer does the same by tunneling everybody to death is hypocritical.
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The fact that the Bubba even bothered CHASING you for 7 minutes speaks volumes. You gotta choose your chases better. Monitor makes it less likely someone will just bolt to spots like ironwork's main window, letting me take on chases that I KNOW wont just be a giant waste of time. If someone wants to stick to the main building in Ironworks or Wretched shop all game...you can HAVE that gen, ill just make it hell for everyone else who CANT get to that building. Focusing on using the saw over the mallet denies the needed speed boost to travel from halfway across the map to the overly safe spot. If ya HAVE to M1, do it midvault so they lose a good portion of the speed due to the animation.
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Hahaha i think you have got me the wrong way mate.
I agree with you and knew what you were trying with that comment.
I said almost the same thing you're saying now 😬
And yes i have talked with a dev once how broken trapper is and he needs a change.
We were talking about ruin and that killers don't need it.
His answer was "you need to apply more pressure and he can snowball the match with his traps"
Yeah that is if you get time to place them/the survivors aren't disarming them and the actually walk into it.
Let's say we couldn't agree on both of our opinions.
Wraith with my build can actually apply good pressure on all maps actually.
Don't always get a 4k, but most of the times i do tho, despite the map 😉
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Yeah i thought the same thing.
Was a oretty while back tho and guess he was pretty new to bubba (or i hope so).
He was trying to make me drop pallets by revving his saw.
If you play both sides you know he becomes slower and thus keep running.
He appearantly didn't as he kept trying it not even thinking about M1 me.
He even kept standing still and looking at me like "dude ######### won't you trow the pallet down?"
But yeah i also pick my target depanding on where they are.
Best way to keep the pressure on
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I've actually heard something pretty humorous about those first gens popping that makes me kinda laugh. People always talk about 3 gens popping by the time you down your first guy. Was watching a streamer one day who had a pretty good approach to that when asked. "So what?". The game slows down tremendously after that first hook, and the survivors arnt likely to be able to keep up the same speed they ORIGINALLY did for the last gens. I remember a pretty good saying I heard for the card game Yugioh, but I think it holds true here too. "The only lifepoint thats important is your last one" We can take this same stance for gens. You dont need to be overly worried about the FIRST gens they finish, just the LAST gen.
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Speedy Bubba with PWYF and Nemesis is apparently becoming the new Bubba norm, so you might end up being caught off if you dont throw the pallet...since Bubba can just back rev you and down you. Using that combo has let me be alot less picky on my targets. If someone wants to run ironworks, I can still saw them down if I have 3 stacks.
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If you bring 4 toolboxes, parts and prove thyself, imo its genrushing, i also play both sides, and when i see it as a killer, i just take ebony and sweaty addons lol, no problems
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Yes, the killer isn't applying enough pressure. There was one killer that was able to apply enough pressure and everyone bitched until she got nerfed.
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If Gen Rushing isn't a thing then camping and tunneling isnt a thing either. The killer is just strategically hunting.
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I didn't say they were the same, but I agree that maybe the killer should have a certain percent speed boost when not in a chase (I would also say no survivors in the terror radius, but that would just add in a built-in whisperers so I don't know how to properly incorporate it in the game without obvious work arounds, also the "not-in-chase" thing could be abused easily but you should know what I mean, ask me if you don't).
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Couldn't agree more on that, the only reason killers get gen rushed is because either they don't have a good build for map pressure or because they commit to every chase and waste all the time chasing one person. When I see extremely good survivors I usually chase them around for 30 or 40 seconds, break a couple of pallets then leave them alone and patrol some gens that way I stop the others from doing gens and I get rid of obstacles little by little.
Also discordance is definitely an A tier perk lads, change my mind lol.
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I think the big issue is that the devs are trying to make the game appeal to the most amount of people as possible, and try to make everyone happy.
It doesn't have to be niche (I can't think of a good example related to this game, so ill just say Space Station 13 as a very niche title, aka for very certain types of players), but they have to either make separate modes(longer waiting, but more consistent matches), make it appeal more towards new players (different influx of people to dedicate to the game) or veteran players (little to no new players, but veterans have more of an incentive to stay).
I can't make the choice for them, but I want to know what you guys think.
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Then tunneling and kill rushing don't exist. Survivors just didn't try hard enough to not get caught.
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