Why are keys so hated?
I have been seriously wondering this for a while, I understand it technically is a way for all survivors to escape without gates, but that's only when all gens are finished either way. The way it works is for 1 survivor to get hatch spawned is that everyone else is dead, and every other amount of survivors require 1+however many are left alive to even spawn in the first place. I frequently see keys being held on an even level with moris, and I simply don't understand why.
Best Answer
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Honestly, its just a manifestation of something to 'hold onto'.
At release killers complained about infinites (REAL infinites too, not the pseudo-infinites you have now). I remember a killer commenting that once infinites were out of the game, there would be no need for killers to play sweaty anymore. I laughed.
People aren't logical, they don't come at arguments from that perspective. They are emotional and influenced by socialisation effects.
The long story short, after June 2016 killers complained about infinites and sprint burst that would recharge while in a chase without exhaustion. Fast forward 2019 and its keys and looping.
Keys, much like mori's are annoying but are kinda rare and don't reflect the majority of games. But when you get owned and you want to hyperbole on the forums, well it suddenly translates into every game is swf who all have keys etc etc.
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most people feel cheaped out from kills or most times when a key gets used you don't pip
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2 gens left and the hatch spawns, you can then use the key to escape, and your friends can use the open hatch too. Same thing as a mori, allows you to end the game sooner.
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But with moris, you can quite honestly get a near instant effect at any point in the game, which is much more impactful than a survivor leaving early
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Hatch spawns based on gens completed being one more than survivors, no? So if only two gens are left, sure two of you can escape, but the killer can still at least get a pip off of two kills if they played well. I play both sides, with a bit more of killer lately, and I really just don't see how these two items are even considered close in terms of power.
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With two gens left though, only two survivors at max could escape. A decent killer could get a pip, even if this occurs, if they played well. I play both sides, a lot more killer lately, and I simply don't understand why these to items are seen as being on the same level in terms of "power"
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Not to mention the hatch does close after 30 seconds, so it's not like the entire team will just know, unless it's a SWF
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Because "no counterplay", how the people in this forums like to say to a variety of other topics.
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Keys are the most difficult item to see in the game because they are so small and dark. They have little to no counterplay beside tunneling the survivors who hold them.
Morii allow you to eliminate a survivor from the game when you shouldn't be able to. Keys allow you to escape when you shouldn't be able to. Its as simple as that. And both feel bad when they get used against you.
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There is a counterplay however, Franklin's Demise. The entire point of the beginning of the load in screen is so that killers can prepare for things like that. Not to mention that, again, keys require gens to be completed, while moris simply require one hook and a down. I just see so much more potential in winning with a Mori than I do a key
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Moris need to be done 4x times to have the same effect for the killer, as a key had for survivors.
Besides that, would moris be bound on all gens done, or something like that - there would be simply not enough time, to use them on every survivor.
That is not the case by keys.
Btw. the use of keys makes sense.
You have your key and use it then. End of story. But why in hell, can I as killer only murder someone after I have already hung him 1x time?
That makes from a realistic standpoint no sense.
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I've seen survivors motion for the others to follow them to the hatch.
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Franklin's Demise is not counterplay. You need to be able to see the bloody thing in the lobby wich can be very hard due to how some survivors hold their items and the dark background. And then you have to forsake an entire perk slot just to prevent a cheap escape. Not to mention that you can just find keys in chests.
Also this is not about how effective a key is compared to a mori. You can't make that kind of direct comparison in an asymetric game. This is about how it feel to have a key or mori used against you. It sucks to be eliminated quicker than you should have been because of a mori and it suck to have your victory robbed from you by a key.
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But how do you access the keys ability? By doing gens. They both have prerequisites, and technically you can just murder everyone with tombstone Michael. There is no survivor perk, add on, or item that can let them instantly escape pretty much with ease, unless they're running full brand new part, and somehow find a skeleton key in a chest. With moris, even a single kill can make an insanely large impact on the flow of the game. You take a survivor out in a third of the usual time
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@Talmeer Per the game, the lore says the entity is allowing you to kill instead of it. But you must hook once, before it will allow you to. But, I think it just prevents the game from ending quickly.
As for Keys, there is absolutely no counter play to them unless you camp the hatch. They really only annoy me because survivors seem to get them from chests when the odds are in my favor when I'm playing killer. Like when I get a three gen setup by accident. But whatever.
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I feel like that may just be a brightness issue then, as I can see keys perfectly fine. Not to mention that people seem to overlook Franklin's, when it truly can impact the game, as no one seems to realize that survivors can be very greedy. As for the last point, this is a comparison between the two, as the original question was saying that people were ranking them equals.
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What about Franklin's, the perk everyone seems to forget? Hell, I sometimes run it if I see four items in lobby just off of the chance that I could be going against brand new parts, purple flashlights, etc. That being said, if someone both finds a skeleton key AND the closed hatch in the same game? That's just dumb luck, and not something that occurs much at all.
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Thanks for giving a lore answer to that. Surley the entity is something like "magic" in other games (aka. something to just explain everything), but still it helps, to accept it.
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Because the key can open the Hatch, and survivors if they have a skeleton key they can use it as soon as the hatch spawns for a quick escape with no issues whatsoever,
As for Keys, there is absolutely no counter play to them unless you camp the hatch. They really only annoy me because survivors seem to get them from chests when the odds are in my favor when I'm playing killer. Like when I get a three gen setup by accident. But whatever.
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One survivor dead, you have a 3 gen because the survivors messed up. Everyone is on death hook, you patrolling your gens and suddenly all 3 escape.
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Exactly. That's why you are toxic for looping the killer when he has hooked nobody and ensuring they can genrush and they all get out just because of you looping.
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What does that have to do with a key escape?
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hard counter to pig, also effectively reduces the number of generators needed for the survivors to win
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Use Franklins.
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Same reason why Moris are hated: they end the game prematurely and take no real skill to use.
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Depends on who is left. If its down to 2 people and one person opens the hatch then the hatch stays open and indicates to the other player that its opened because they are now the last alive in the trial.
Mori is a way for killer to finish a game quickly if they catch survivors.
Keys are a way for survivors to leave early if they do gens.
Both suck because they remove a large part of the match hurting everyone involved.
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They should either just remove keys and mori's all together, or balance it out better. We agree there pretty much the same. Only diff is a survivor can find a key mid-match, where as a killer can't find a Mori mid-match. Keys should be removed from chests, or there should be something the killer can search that gives him 1 free mori mid-match.
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The problem in my eyes isn't that it lets everyone escape when all the gens are done. The problem is that it lets multiple people escape before all the gens are done.
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Only two people would be able to able to escape in this situation.
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Multiple people escaping from one key is unnecessary. Opening hatch during chase is also annoying. Other than that keys have less impact than toolboxes most of the time.
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It's still two people escaping way before they should be able to. I find both keys and moris to be in bad taste and only use them if it's a daily or archive.
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Yes nerfing chests is a priority to balance this game. Grow up man, chests are a farming tool that have almost no effect on the outcome of a trial. It also shows what your priorities are if you think taking keys out of chests would fix everything even though keys will still be able to be used during chase and used for multiple people.
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Some consider it a free escape even though you had to either complete enough gens for the hatch to show or pay enough blood in survivor deaths for it to show.
But hey killers get all those free kills from EGC now - so what's the problem?
I really feel if the hatch was gone the game would be far less interesting for survivors to play. That hatch is what keeps them playing til the end when all other hope is lost. Plus I would not even touch this game unless I was in an swf. In solo play, I don't take any pride in having to use the hatch, I consider it a consolation prize for being RNG'ed into a bad group.
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Because unlike moris as powerful as they are..moris dont reward failure..keys do
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Yeah the "free escapes" never bothered me. What does bother me and pretty much everyone who plays killer are the toxic hatch escapes during chase and the toxic everyone immediately escapes from one single key. Keys would be pretty balanced if these unhealthy behaviors were addressed.
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It requires no skill and has no counter play and before you say anything FRANKLINS IS NOT COUNTER PLAY. Once the survivor makes it to the hatch thats it they win even if you are right on top of them it does not matter. Keys can be brought into a match or found in a trail and can turn a losing game into an winning one and with a swf it practically always ends up like that. btw up to 3 people can escape by hatch before all the gens are powered due to hatch spawning rules
"The Hatch will become visible whenever the number of fully repaired Generators exceeds the number of living Survivors by 1:"-thanks wiki.
also with how this game is being able to instantly and safely escape with one or more survivors due to an item is extremely unbalanced and unfair because the killer can do nothing to prevent it other than try to down the person with the key before he makes it to the hatch and during this other survivors can take hits to prevent that and escape with the survivor with the key.
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Yeah you probably run into that - as a solo I'm usually the one left behind as the killer slams the hatch down cause I never got the memo. So I see things very differently.
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Yeah if they fixed that it would decrease solo swf gap. Good thinking.
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Personally, I'm indifferent to them. They're fun to use as survivor, and all they really do is end the game early as killer. If people need to key out, you've basically won anyway.
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But I still feel like moris are more powerful than keys because for a mori you only have to hook the person once. For keys you have to get a few gems done.
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Devs have said that you should not have to run a perk to counter a game mechanic which is what keys fall into also the survivors can just pick the key back up. Also I should not have to run a perk that may have no synergy with my killer just because one person brought a key and what if its found in the match instead? should I just always use a mediocre perk or leave the game, put on frankilns, and then start a new one.
edit: also franklins does not counter keys since the key can be found and used if anything you might get lucky and hit someone who is looking for hatch with that key before they find it.
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Like many things in this game, they're not bad when used solo, but OP when used by a team of SWF. Three gens can be done in the time it takes for one hook. Genrush, rainbow map, and a couple of keys can have the match over in 3 minutes.
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Because killers feel cheated out of kills by them. I only half agree. If they bring a key in I consider it fair game. Though I'd like to see both keys and Mori's tweaked to be a bit less strong. If they find it in a chest. Then yeah that is pretty unfair.
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Honestly keys are fine and no where near close to moris as mori can be used whenever you hook a survivor which is fairly easy to do vs keys that actually require a little more effort to use Unless you’re the last survivor. Seriously it’s just Killer mains being entitled for 4k kills IMO.
I play killer and survivor equally and never really found it to be an issue- 2 people escape via the hatch seem fair, last guy escaping via the hatch that’s fair, 4 man escape via they hatch that’s fair as all the gens are done which is the requirement anyway for that to happen.
As I’ve said the real problem would be 3 man escaping via the hatch depending on how the game went. If 3 man escape via the hatch and the killer was being a dick tunnel a survivor camping etc this is fair. If you played well and didn’t tunnel or camp I see how this would be annoying, but you just have to move on.
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Once again, for the same guy that doesn't understand what I write, I'm not saying nerf chests, I'm saying just take the keys out, or give the killer something to search to get 1 Mori to balance it out. How is that not fair.
Mori=Key correct?
If I don't BRING a Mori, I can't get one mid match. If you DON'T bring a key, why should you be allowed the opportunity to get one mid match and completely change the outcome of the game? Thats my point, take it or leave it. Twist it however you want, but it can't be any clearer than that. Now, good day to you.
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While I believe 90% of the community believes the hatch system is now pretty fair, i believe that too personally. Keys on the other hand are.. odd, because they in a way can punish the killers for doing their jobs and because there's not a proper way to counter them atm.
- Franklin's demise: they can just pick it back up later, and since the key theoretically only need 1% of out of its 100% to open a hatch, this means the % loss from the the dropping is still a joke as they can just pick it back up later.
- Camping the person with the key, not a valid counter, someone else can pick up the key after the person is sacrificed.
- Slugging. Takes too long to kill people and since most people running keys are already on coms, perks like Knockout or ones that give survivors blindness are pretty much pointless as they'll be able to pick each other up and repair faster than they can bleed out.
- Doing your best to play like normal, the better you are at killing these survivors the easier it becomes for them to find the hatch as the number of survivors go down.
One of the more annoying things about them is how they can't be interrupted during the opening as the game doesn't have a hatch opening animation. So even you catch group of these survivors on the hatch you can't stop them from all escaping.
The randomness of it all is what's also annoying, whiles moris are just a "in due time" thing keys are too random and throws the gameflow out of whack.
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Removing them isnt an option..however..
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/113656/so-i-wanted-to-bring-this-up-again/p1?new=1
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What you don't understand is key =/= mori.
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Both are unhealthy but one has many more problems.
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Do people forget that Franklins is behind a paywall?
I don't have that perk. Equipping it isn't even an option.
At least Iron Will is on Jake who is free and Spine Chill is a neutral perk. Yet those perks are said to be invalid counters to the Spirit. Yet Franklins is valid counterplay against Keys?
Sure you can see the Keys in advance, but again it's behind a pay wall. I shouldn't need to pay money to have access to the counterplay. I can't even just use shards without waiting god knows how long it takes for it to appear in the shrine, because bubba can't be bought with shards.
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Say you had a really tough match and you put in all your effort to defeat half a SWF group. You had the gen counter at three for a good portion of the game but it was extremely tough.
You decide to try and down and sacrifice the survivor who is finally on death hook but he didn’t go down without a fight. POP! 2 gens left as you carry the survivor to death hook. BBQ procts and you make your way to the Last 2 survivors but all of a sudden the game ends. 20 min of hard work wasted because a survivor has an item to stop a well deserved 4 k
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