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Six Feet Under and Dark Senses are atrociously designed challenges.

Witas
Witas Member Posts: 477

What Im about to talk about isn't limited to these 2 challenges, but they're the most notable examples of bad challenge design. Yes, it's a bit of a rant but I also believe there is solid, constructive criticism in here :O


Dark Senses: Finish repairing 4 generators using the perk Dark Sense

Six Feet Under: Sacrifice 4 survivors in the basement

Both of those are master challenges, meaning they have to be completed in a single trial.


  1. They're not challenges, they're based on luck, atleast for a solo player and forcing farming and/or SWF to even have a chance at completing a challenge is just bad design, especially since they know better than anyone that the majority plays solo. This mistake has no right of repeating in future tomes.
  2. These challenges are also simply frustrating, they force you to play in a specific way, which by itself isn't bad, but they force you to use really abstract strategies, and allow no room for failure whatsoever, but that is a problem with Master Challenges in general and why I don't like them, coming close to completing a challenge, but failing grants no progress at all and leads to frustration after several tries, since you have no way of anticipating how many times you'll have to try again.
  3. Another problem with these challenges is their dependency on other players, both can be ruined by 1 player extremely easily, without him even knowing/trying, then imagine how bad it can be when someone actually IS trying to ruin the challenge, further forcing you to farm/SWF.

Now onto more specific problems with each of these challenges.


Six Feet Under:

Now, Im all over some RNG in the challenges to keep them interesting, but with how DBD is, this challenge was a bad idea all along, I have no idea how it made it in. Im talking about maps, there are so many different maps, some are big, some are small, some have basements in the middle, some have basements in the corner, some are The Game. It's not unlikely for your "try" to get invalidated at the very beginning due to getting a bad map and not even Agitation + Iron Grasp can help you with that.

I talked about frustration while doing challenges earlier. Survivors have it too, even more of it. Or should I call this pure boredom ? They're robbed of a normal match, instead forced to play some kind of basement party with a camping killer, because due to maps, camping is the only viable way of completing this challenge. (yes. Coming back as demo or hag immediately after an unhook is basically the same as camping) It's so incredibly boring for survivors (Hey ! It's just like that for killers too !) you start to not blame them for DCing.

Dark Senses:

This challenge is also plain boring for survivors, you're not allowed to have chases while doing this challenge, because you have to be on gens literally the whole time, and idk about you but to me chases are the only fun part of the game, for either roles. Sure, you theoretically can work around that and have your teammates 99% gens (granted they're SWF ofc), but this is so ... uncomfortable (Can't find a better word) and basically throws you the game with the disarray it causes. We were trying to get it for a friend that way, and none of us were having fun because of this.

I may be repeating myself here, but this challenge requires SWF. It's not possible to complete without immense luck as a solo, at which point it's not even a challenge, because a challenge is supposed to be challenging your skill, not your luck.


Well, I think I got my point across well enough. I managed to get Dark Senses thanks to my friends, but I gave up on Six Feet Under. I know it's the 1st Tome, hence we shouldn't be too mad about it. (even though it boggles my mind how these challenges got implemented the way they were lol) Let's hope the Devs collect feedback and come up with something better next time ! With all that being said, what are your thoughts on that, and the way challenges currently are in general ?

Comments

  • kate_main
    kate_main Member Posts: 178

    I really wish there were more "Do X thing while using Y perk" kind of challanges.

    And yes; rng challanges are unhealthy.

    Especially when they encourage bad strategies like camping or tunneling

  • Science_Guy
    Science_Guy Member Posts: 2,034

    Re:Dark Senses

    Saying it "requires SWF" is just flat wrong. No, it doesn't.

    Sorry, but you say there's no "skill" involved in the challenges and then you also admit that by yourself you aren't capable of completing a challenge that plenty of other players have accomplished with ease...

  • dragobv
    dragobv Member Posts: 304

    i agree on 6 feet under it encourages terrible gamplay which i mentioned in their survey after the ptb but still apparantly camping a team to death in a basement is fun for a challenge but in reality its forcing the entire community to play the most unfair and unfun way as possible

  • Witas
    Witas Member Posts: 477

    lol I even stated that it is possible to complete it solo, but with how much luck you need it stops being a challenge and becomes a dice roll basically.

    And you saying that I wasn't able to complete a challenge that I deem not skillfull means literally nothing, idk why you'd bring this up, with how luck based they are it's obvious that many people got it on their 1st try, doesn't mean they're good or bad, just means they got lucky, there are just as many players that can't get those challenges, doesn't mean they're worse than the other half lol.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,998

    The dark sense challenge I got by pure luck plain and simple

  • LordRegal
    LordRegal Member Posts: 1,549

    The dark sense one is poorly designed, I agree.

    I disagree that six feet under is badly designed. If not for people DCing, it would be fine. Even with people reporting DCs left and right I got it the second time I tried for it, and got it again the game I went for the five basement hooks in one game. It encourages certain kinds of play, sure, but it’s definitely not RNG or impossible by any means.

  • Science_Guy
    Science_Guy Member Posts: 2,034

    And yet you continue to say the challenges are "luck-based" but by that definition, the entire game is luck-based.

    You are either know what you're doing and the challenge takes just a few matches, or you don't and you struggle until you get lucky. If that's "luck", then it's an acceptable amount of it.

  • Witas
    Witas Member Posts: 477

    "And yet you continue to say the challenges are "luck-based" but by that definition, the entire game is luck-based." - I do not see the connection between the 2, but I agree that the game is luck based to an extent, there is a lot of rng.

    "You are either know what you're doing and the challenge takes just a few matches, or you don't and you struggle until you get lucky. If that's "luck", then it's an acceptable amount of it." Sure, the game is luck based, and it's an acceptable amount of luck. The amount of luck in challenges is not acceptable, I even stated that Im fine with RNG in challenges as long as it's not ridiculous.

  • VII_Seven
    VII_Seven Member Posts: 65

    the dark sense one is stupid i was solo and i was very lucky to get it i was on every gen and my teammates were pumping out gens to like 90% i was just at the right place at the right time to finish it with them. 1 was like 97% and i touched it and got it, so team dependent / rng