Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
The reason for the Doctor rework shows a strong pro-survivor bias
Comments
-
Not what I am referring too. Their strength does not matter. They FEEL miserable to play. Both of them suck on console, especially, but Nurse makes me physically ill and Legion gives me a headache with his stun. Both feel clunky.
1 -
I meant specifically the rework they flew PsychoScorpionz in for with Pig.
I actually main Pig among a few other killers. Pigs mostly weak if you don't put the time in. She is more a jack of all trades master of none. So for people who know the basics incredibly well she's also incredibly strong because how versatile her kit is. If you can adapt to players incredibly quick she starts to become top tier. Sadly she's only as good as you.
0 -
DbD is not LoL, obviously. But good game design principles are often transferrable. Their problem with Darius was the exact problem we had with the release version of Legion. High annoyance, low performance. I know that a group of people are not happy with the Legion update, but according to our data they are in a much healthier position than they were pre-update.
3 -
Oh pls, he is in the most annoying killer of all time. I rather went against old Legion than any doctor.
0 -
The problem, as evidenced here obviously, is that annoyance is a subjective trait, like fun, which makes it a really difficult and unreliable thing to balance around.
1 -
You are right, but let's be fair and say that all the audio noises, random screaming, constant red glow etc is not something the average survivor player enjoys.
1 -
Hold on. Did you seriously just compare a change in DbD to a change in LoL?
One being a 5v5 MOBA game of equal team sizes and an actual MMR, and one being a 4v1 asymmetrical game with completely different design and balances needs, and in desperate need of a ranking-MMR system that isn't easily abused by a Kindergartner?
No offense, but you need far, far better comparison examples. That would be like comparing DbD to Overwatch design and balance decisions.
1 -
I mean, trying to make the game more fun for both sides seems like a preeeetty reasonable goal.
Although in this case I don't really see how they're making it less annoying for survivors, just seems like a stronger Doctor.
1 -
The comparison is valid in this case, though. In any game with opposing teams/roles, a character that people hate playing against and isn't even performing that well is a problem that needs looking at.
0 -
See my comment above about LoL and DbD.
0 -
I'm not saying the spirit didn't deserve her nerf. All i'm saying is they keep lying about " fun " , spirit is just as unfun to play against , which is fine, because she is a balanced killer , but god damn it stop saying you are balancing stuff around " fun " i'm not seeing any veterans with over 1000 hours have fun with this game we are all burning out i swear grow a pair BHVR and change your game switch the meta do something
0 -
Yeah, why should we use game sense and hunting/tracking skill to figure out where survivors could be? We should just hold a button and immediately find where survivors are when they're near us! Those bratty, entitled survivor mains.
0 -
Funny I'm a Survivor main and I play Doctor a lot .
Despite the re-work is meant to make him feel not so frustrating to go against .
I think it's gonna be a buff to him not a nerf . Also it'd be interesting to try different builds on him .
Currently I run Dying Light , Hex Ruin , Thanatophobia, and Overcharge . Sometimes I switch Overcharge for Sloppy butcher . It's about the most effective build that Truly slows the game down even if survivors were Gen Rushing . And Even more effective with 3 Gen strat .
My Add-ons usually are 1 Range increasing add-on 50 % or 75 % if not Available I'd settle for the 25 % increase with Restraints class or the Ultra Rare one . Others are useless .
Destroyed many coordinated SWF . And strong Red Rank players .
But I don't have distressing yet on him . I wanna get it for the Reworked version .
And don't forget that you're gonna be able to Shock n swing seamlessly , it's one of the things i hate about him esp around loops it takes so much time n slows him down . Now it's gonna be from the past . You end chases faster . 😉
And those who like to hide in lockers would constantly get mad and reveal themselves i just hope they don't Change Restraint class add on cause that's the best he has .
0 -
Hahahaha
0 -
Because veterans doesn't like changes, it happens in life itself. Wich one have more chances to show tolerance to a gay man? A young man or an old man that despised the word "gay" all his life? I have only a year in this game, but most of the "veterans" just complain about changes because they are not open to it. The doctor rework seems good to me... and if he's unfun to play with when the PTB comes. I will give my feedback. The thing with nurse is... it was a whole rework and people keep comparing her to the old nurse, when they should not focus in "get old nurse back" but "make new nurse something enjoyable", their feedback should be "changes that will make the new nurse fun to play with" but the feedback is "a reminder that new nurse is not fun to play with", open it and you will see something like "nurse was severally nerfed..." (comparing her with the old nurse). Don't missunderstand me, I know new nurse is not fun to play with at all but BHVR won't bring old nurse back so... better focus on make feedback that will change the new nurse to something who is more enjoyable.
0 -
I main doctor. love the character. Once he reaches that certain "point" he really doesn't do so hot against the really good survivors. I'd say that rank 13+ aren't even phased by static or madness anymore, other than casting it on potential pallet throw-downs. The thing casts too slowly. and the only thing good is trying to get madness up as fast as possible with Pink Chess piece or the add-on "order". The rest seams kind of "iffy".
Same with plague. She has VERY niche add-ons. Reworks are fun and all. But once a person reaches a certain "rhythm" it can really be frustrating after a rework. Idk. I'd say that low rank survivors are NOT passing by the doctor easily and the high rank players act like there is nothing there from the doctor and they go "EZ CLAP" 😁
0 -
They are balancing him though...how ignorant can people be?
0 -
By what standard are we measuring annoying?
0 -
We have experienced players play the old version then the new version one after the other, then they take a survey which asks questions about relative frustration and fun levels.
0 -
Are there certain ways the killer is told to play? How experienced are we talking here?
0 -
No. The Survivors are from the same pool of experienced players. So they play full rounds with each playing the Killer in turn. Takes a while for the full session. Methodology is very important in these things. As I can't go into 100% detail about all this, it's possible you guys will have some questions about it I can't answer. But we have data scientists around who help us construct these sessions. :)
0 -
Hmm I sure hope that this will work out as you say, because it is just about the only thing I am looking forward to, I would argue everything else is a nerf.. I am just praying that removing the stance change will make it so he can actually land attacks faster on people he is zapping.
But the only issue with that will be if it is actually working this way that survivors will complain that he's too "OP" because he can easily shut down loops and swing a hit... ugh I'm genuinely worried, as of now I still enjoy playing Doctor, I really don't want the rework to actually make him unplayable in the end..
Whatever changes they make, I really hope they still keep his effectiveness as a Killer in mind, especially since he is already considered to be pretty low tier.
0 -
They are buffing him
0 -
Hopeful the ones chosen are equally skilled on both sides and aren't bias to voting for the version that is easier. If it's for a certain killer, in this case Doc, that players that main him would be allowed to give feed back.
If Nurse was given this same type of testing then I'm doubtful any comptetent Nurse player would give a high enjoyment rating having to go into constant cool down just to move around the map.
5 -
I am not a doc expert. I wish the doc mains the best and hope that balance is really the goal.
0 -
My killer queques are instant while as a survivor i need to wait several minutes.. I have no idea what lobby simulator you are talking abaut.
0 -
Considering the rarity of the doctor in gameplay now, an update is necessary so people actually pick him to play. He is annoying to go against, but he's also easy to escape from most of the time. An update could help both.
0 -
I can't see him functioning the way people think he will - IE - Rework is meant to make him more fun to play as/against, so I can't see them making it so you can shock a survivor going for a vault/pallet, completely denying them the interaction, and then immediately swinging for a guaranteed hit at 115%.
It doesn't make sense in the rework's context.
I honestly feel like there is going to be a lot of disappointment in his future :(
1 -
They're making him much better
0 -
I hope I'm wrong, but I'll have to see this go live to believe it.
1 -
I get a few replies with people saying as killers that they have 'instant' queues but typically there's no context so it's hard to take it seriously.
There may be a few things are happening here, but like I said, there's no context so it becomes this weird subjective opinion from some rando on the internets.
What I suspect is happening is that if your a long time player whose dropped money on the game and you usually play killer then you get preferential treatment. It also might be different across consoles compared to what I've seen on PC.
The external website I used to monitor would show that the metrics before going to dedicated servers demonstrate a consistent 2 survivors to every killer. You need 4 survivors for a game. Sometimes you see 3:1, but NEVER the inverse. Always, too many people want to play killer.
Also the ingame timer that was in briefly showed this consistency before it was removed because killers started complaining about their queue times.
Feel free to disagree but try and at least do better than 'cause I say so'.
1 -
"What I suspect is happening is that if your a long time player whose dropped money on the game and you usually play killer then you get preferential treatment. It also might be different across consoles compared to what I've seen on PC."
LOLZ
1 -
Ok...laughing at him means you're right and he's not?
0 -
We're about to crack the greatest conspiracy theory of 2019!
Any proof of this system that tracks your monetary purchases, role preference, and game time - providing preference to players that fit into a specific area of each metric?
Yeah, I'm going to laugh at baseless conspiracy theories that suggest the developers give preferential queue treatment to certain people.
I don't know how I can be right or wrong though, unless I made a statement somewhere above that I'm missing.
1 -
PREACH, BROTHA MAN!
0 -
Did you wear tin foil hat while you said that? I'm not sure what else you expect me to say.. i'm currently rank 4 survivor and rank 6 killer, and my killer queques are much, much faster. Nice to hear that i'm getting special treatment though 🤘
0 -
You must have bought some Auric Cells!
3 -
Why do you guys only care about making the game fun for survivor? Why can't killer be fun too?
0 -
I did actually.. with 5 bucks! you should too, since it seems you get extremely fast killer queques for such a price! thanks again devs, not bad deal at all
0 -
I handed it to your for your subjective (repeat) anecdotal 'much much faster' point, thanks for playing.
0 -
You do for every change you gonna do to killers?
0 -
Na, causality. Laughing at him doesnt make him wrong, but being wrong causes people to laugh at him.
3 -
Coupled with madness you cant reduce past 2, which leaves clones he can use to find you if you manage to NOT get shock spammed, AND that he can grab from shock spam mode, makes it extremely easy to find people. Shock shock shock. Hit. Hook. Shock shock grab. Drop. Shock shock hook. Gg.
0 -
That's outright false. I've spent more than I ever should have on this ######### game, and still have 20 minute queues. Killer seems faster, sure, but instant? Never.
It's like saying higher level GTA players that buy shark cards have better luck with the casino wheel. It's just placebo and rng.
0 -
Making killers less annoying to play against causes less survivors to dc and less suicides on hooks, giving the devs more accurate data to improve killers.
Win/Win in my book.
This thread is starting to remind me of the Freddy rework and how people said he was going to be #########.
4 -
The problem is, a lot of survivors find killers annoying that win against them. you can easily see this with the nerf calls. Once one nerf is announced or done, another killer becomes "the problem" even if it wasn´t a problem before.
So, to be less annoying a killer has to win less. But then whats the incentive to play killer if your chances to win are further reduced than they are now?
3 -
I find him really annoying (no i dont) i see doc so rarely and when I do it usually is a free win. No idea why people think he is annoying tbh.
0 -
What's frustrating is that I'm talking my experience. I See my 'instant' survivors times and my long killer times. I provide evidence to support my perspective then try to provide insight into why I see posts that might contradict my hypothesis.
All I get for trying to pool that together is anecdotal subjective hyperbolic statements. I get that your perspective is different and a few other posts agree with your perspective. But your not doing ANYTHING to try and show some form of insight into this with some kind of evidence.
You don't have to agree with me but doing the equivalent of 'because I say so', is as effective as not posting at all. Except that you don't get to voice your opinion and the people in that bubble don't get to nod their heads and say 'i agree with you'.
Which is what it comes down too.
Unless you think I'm lying, which contradicts the people that agree with me. So we just end up doing this circular dance that doesn't do much of anything.
2 -
Killers do the same.
In 2016 it was complaints of infinites and no exhaustion sprint burst. Fast forward 2019 and its keys and looping.
Pewdiepie talked about this recently in regards to his subreddit. Its something that's more related to human nature in general. Once people become accustom to something they complain about its short comings because they want something different.
The grass is always greener on the other side I guess.
0 -
When the devs won't release relevant statistics, "anecdotal" statements are all we have. Even with just that, there are far more people who are experiences instant killer queues and long survivor queues. Your experience is an outlier.
1
