The reason for the Doctor rework shows a strong pro-survivor bias
From this well made summary of the recent dev stream.
"They decided to update Doctor next because he’s the most annoying killer to play against."
He was not changed because he was weak and people struggled to play as him. No. He was changed because survivors found him "annoying" in the incredibly rare instance a killer decided they wanted to suffer playing as him. Probably why we have had so many Legion changes recently, to make them less "annoying" for survivors to go against. Meanwhile very weak killers like the Clown are not "annoying" will likely be left to languish for years to come.
Comments
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Doctor isn’t even that annoying
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But in doing the update, we focused on making him more fun to play as well as against.
LoL is littered with changes they made due to characters being annoying to play against. Most notably Darius, who had a 60% ban rate, but a 48% win rate.
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According to what the changes are I think they made his annoyance factor even more of an annoyance unless they removed his spinning skillchecks after madness.
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The stance removal is one of the best things I hate having to do that
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The majority of the changes they've stated so far appear to be pluses for the Doc. Unless they're hiding a "105% movement speed" announcement, it seems like this is going to be a net plus for him.
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Understandable..but with all do respect..as much as I have hope for doc with this...we still dont know what else has been done..and every dev post goes on about the survivor experiance over and over..it gets to be a bit of a downer for killer players..plus..the nurse has all but dissapeared since her changes..spirit and wraith are bugged..same with sounds..Yet the last update was to blindside nerf both freddy and oni and nothing else really..resulting in oni being stressful to play and in some cases..weaker with his power than without it...so it gets disheartening that in the face of all this it is perceived survivors take priority..you know?
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Agree. Every clown main should start using annoying perks and exhaustion addons so survivors start complaining. Im sure this way he'll get revisited in less than a month 💪
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As great as this game is, or rather can be, the changes always seem to be geared for the enjoyment of the survivor as opposed to the killer. In the long run,this game comes down to grabbing cash, and there is more money to be made by enhancing the survivors side than the killers. More people play survivor, so making sure they keep playing is a priority. Then more cosmetics are made for survivors, because once again, it's all about that bottom line. Its we suckers who keep playing killer who get punished in the long run, but this game is alot like heroin, when you are an addict, even bad heroin is good.
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to be fair, it wasn't exactly fair to just walk and find people. he's annoying to play against because he can always find you, and boring to play as because unlike other killers, there's no excitement from finding the survivors.
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Doctor is getting huge nerfs and slight buffs. Survivors will experience alot less madness overall. Most importantly doctor is losing his treatment grabbing.
He was the only killer that could grab people that do the easy unhooking fakeouts and other grabs since dedicated servers ruined grabbing. Losing his grabs and passive terror us a huge nerf to a weak killer
Oh yeah and they are removing his exhaustion add-ons in favor of a skillcheck gimmick. Guess will be back to survivors unhooking right in doctor's face and with no reprecussions using DS and BT
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They seem like they want doc to be more fun to play and play against.
A common complaint while playing as him is that against good survivors his power doesn't do enough in chase. The ability to shock without telegraphing it by changing stances sounds like it might make it more useful depending on how it's implemented, and the on-demand madness tier increase (scream unless they have calm spirit) lets you know if someone's nearby based on a cooldown instead of wondering if they barely avoided going T3 or if someone's in a locker.
Common complaints playing against him mostly seem to be about the "skillcheck doc" 3gen build, his anti-stealth and the near-guaranteed unhook grab from treatment mode. The removal of the stance transition/passive static field will probably get rid of them. And instead of a passive field survivors can now keep track of his cooldown when it comes to the risk of being revealed by a scream.
Guess we'll see what they do though.
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I'm not convinced Static Field inflicts a meaningful amount of madness past Tier 1. Static Blast seems like a step up to me. The only minus we've heard so far is the loss of the fakeout grabs, but that is not close to a dealbreaker IMO.
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At least it got the excitement going
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What about the reversed skill checks? afaik they're changing the random skill checks on the screen for those, and a reversed skill check doesn't seems to be much of a problem. I feel like its something every survivor will get used to after 3 or 4.
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I mean LoL also has people playing in close to the same rank proximity but here I am facing rank 2s and 3s as a rank 11 killer rn since I've been playing survivor more for the past 3 rank resets.
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Sometimes getting rid of annoying mechanics is the best place to start. It makes the game fun for both parties if it's less annoying for survivors and its better to play for the killers.
They can take a while but it's why Insta heals were changed and MoM had a needed nerf not long after release.
There have been many changes over the years to survivor as well so I guess you could say those changes must have been the devs showing killer bias as it made it more fun to verse 🙄.
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With certain add ons/playstyles the doctor is EXTREMELY annoying to play against. You can vault in tier 3 madness, ######### is that
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From what we've seen so far, reversed skill checks will only happen if you equip the reworked Obedience very rare add-on or Iridescent King ultra rare. And thoses will no longer inflict exhaustion.
Removing the stance switching is great. Static blast seem interesting but I'm a bit concerned about the cooldown. But what I'm most worried about are what they are going to do about madness. Currently its really got no effect on half decent survivors. Madness is the only pressure doctor's get and its only placebo pressure really. Madness afflictions need to be looked at and improved to actually do something. Anything.
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The reversed skill checks replace the Exhausted status effects. So it's possible to get a shaking off-center counter-clockwise skill check.
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So Doctor will not be able to counter exhaustion perks anymore? That makes me sad.
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The loss of exhaustion for madness 3 is a massive nerf for the doc.
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Nurse would like to say hi to that statement
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I don't get this post.
People whine about survivor disconnects and want the devs to do something. They find that survivors find doctor annoying, devs do something, continue to whine about having done something.
Why don't we leave doctor as is, ban all the disconnects and then play lobby simulator as killers.
Great idea.
Metrics before going to dedicated servers demonstrate a consistent 2 survivors to every killer. You need 4 survivors for a game. Sometimes you see 3:1, but NEVER the inverse. Always, too many people want to play killer.
Over time the devs have consistently removed or nerfed the aspects that allow survivors to survive (vaults, pallets etc.), while buffing killers (bloodlust, more one-shot/instant find mechanics, end game hatch). Survivor mains did one of 2 things since release. Left the game or migrated to playing killer. The only survivor mains left are ‘new’ survivors who have no perspective or my favourite; killer mains that ‘play both sides equally’ -.-
The game is biased in favor of killers and the metrics show it.
If killers want to play lobby simulator, just keep making OP like this one -.-
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When do we get those Pig change notes and announcements?
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The random skill check placement is staying. The counter clockwise skill checks effect is replacing the Exhaustion effect on the Obedience and Iridescent King add-ons. Not sure why though. If the devs are trying to make Doctor fun to play against, then why give him an add-on that has a considerable chance to change the direction of skill checks (meaning you won’t know what kind of skill check you’ll get next) instead of just letting him keep the Exhaustion add-on? Too many Survivors relying too much on their Exhaustion perks?
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next they will decrease snapping out of it time from 12s to 8s.. :D
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I'm kinda expecting that to be honest. Or some sort of nerf to madness tier 3
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or they will silently remove Madness 3 and mute Doc.. "too annoying"
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omg i completely forgot about the Treatment grab bullcrap, thank goodness, and good riddance.
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I mean, Freddy too was reworked because old Freddy was apparently "frustrating" to verse. No killer ever gets reworked because the person playing them find them frustrating or boring. Its always all about the survivor's fun.
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Hopefully he is more fun to play as.
Legion and Nurse definitely aren't anywhere near as fun to play as anymore. The original Legion was a lot more fun as killer. The recharge made Nurse more frustrating as killer.
Both are a lot better to face as survivor but it seems killer players just get ignored. We loved those characters but they feel worse to play due to major changes regardless of what statistics say about kill rates.
Legions power used to actually down people, Nurse could blink with no waiting. :/
I'm looking forward to the doc changes to see what happens i hope you're right and he's more fun to play as not less.
No exhaustion and no automatic screaming has me worried those are survivor focused changes. There is no killer/survivor balance there thats a net loss for the killer since they were so good for killer.
Post edited by BBQnDemogorgon on7 -
They are also making him stronger and more fun to play as. Your argument is unfounded.
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No you have it backwards kid.
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The standard for reworks should be Freddy, powerful but not oppressive.
Legion and Nurse, while arguably more fair for Survivors, are absolutely miserable to play as.
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Agreed
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Expect this to happen to all Exhaustion addons if this is the case.
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Exhaustion is much more boring to use than watching survivors miss skill checks left and right.
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Honestly, even though I hate playing against 3-gen Doc, it is hella entertaining to play as.
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Stronger? He seems a lot weaker and less fun to play as at the moment...
No auto detection, no exhaustion and a 60 second cooldown on something that was automatic over time.
It told you survivors were close now its a i think survivors are close so ill hope blast works.
The only good change is iri queen and no stances. The backwards skill checks will be useless survivors rarely miss skill checks.
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Everyone doubted Freddy would be good
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He will be more fun to play against. 🙃
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I really don't get how this is survivor biased.
As a killer player I'm really looking forward to this rework. First off, his cumbersome mode switching is gone, and he doesn't need to be a 110 killer to zap. Then he has static blast which can tier up multiple survivors which means I can actually put more than one person into tier 3 and stall them.
Yeah, the static field is gone, and for good reason. It was a 0 input mechanism that just showed you people for free. It was essentially uncounterable unless you spent 90% of the match in a locker. But more importantly, beyond tier 1 it almost never tiered anybody up, you still had to find and zap them. Now you can run any form of information perk like Discordance or Whispers and have multiple people snapping out of it while you chase another.
The loss of exhaustion add ons is pretty annoying, but flipping skill checks that appear at random points is going to be basically impossible.
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Except they don't. What kind of survivor miss skillchecks with regular succes zone or even with Unnerving Presence ? They are so easy to hit if you are paying minimal attention. Sure an off center backward skillcheck might catch you by surprise. Once. Then what ?
Messing with skillchecks is just not effective at all against good survivors and annoyig to newbies. Madness need to do more than that or something else entirely.
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confirmed that he will still slow down when using the zap by a dev on this forum.
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No, what I mean is before in treatment mode he always walks at 110 speed. He slows himself further to use the zap. It makes chasing people just to tier them up take a really long time.
With the rework, he'll still slow down as the zap charges, but he'll still run as a 115 killer.
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I really don't get how that's hard to understand.
Also, could you go to t2 from the field? I used to run in get t1 then ignore him for the game.
How you just put in whispers and shock. T2->3 right away
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You could but it takes a long time, and IIRC scales with distance, so sitting on the edge of the radius will nearly never matter. 3 was simply unheard of.
It's going to be much better for him since his stalling mechanism, tier 3, will be applied to multiple people at once forcing them to snap out of it while you chase and not do gens or heal. As he currently is tier 3 only really affects the person who's just been unhooked which makes him really good at tunneling and 3 gens, and not much else..
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I wonder if Discipline add-ons will affect the static pulse. Its 50 madness points from what we've heard, so even a 10% bonus would make it deal 55 madness wich is instant madness lvl 2.
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Refering to the first posting of this thread...
If "annoying to play against" is really the reason and nothing else, then bhvr has won the award for the "most stupid update reason" in 2019 (and that at least a second time).
If that is true, then congrats bhvr! :)
Btw. bhvr there will always be a "most annoying to play against" killer be, because... That is just the nature of the beast, if we like to say so.
And second, who makes you think that you know what every survivor thinks?
Even the people here in the forums, or other dbd communitys, are just a snippet of all the people that playing dbd.
If dbd is not totally different to other games, then the majority of people that play the game will never write here in the forums.
They just play the game, or not, without writing about it in any community. They will only talk with their friends about dbd, if those friends are also interested in games - that said.
TL:DR You will never be able to learn what everybody is thinking about the game.
Edit: And that means "most annoying to play against" - you can't say it until you know what everybody is thinking.
But that are just my 2 cents.
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It's not exactly a sound argument to pretend no information can be known about the game just because they haven't personally polled every player.
Everyone knows Doctor has a tremendous history of disconnects because of how annoying he is. Hell my adept Doctor came from 4 DCs because we loaded into the meat packing plant.
Doctor is both rarely played, and unenjoyable to go against, and many of his mechanics reward simply existing regardless of how well you play. His other more skilled mechanics are punished by clumsy controls for just being able to attack after a zap.
Yes, everyone is going to have their own personal opinion on who is the most annoying, but that doesn't mean the devs are clueless as to which one wins.
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