Why do survivors get perks that completely erase their mistakes?
Do a mistake while looping? Just Dead Hard to the next pallet and prolong the chase for another 30 seconds atleast.
Can't outrun the killer with borrowed time on you? Just Deceisive Strike him.
Get slugged? Just use Unbreakable.
Oh and killer get what? Noed? Good for getting one kill I guess because Killers don't have any pressure when all generators are powered regardless.
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Getting slugged tunneled or camped is not a survivor's mistake. Dead Hard works just the same whether or not a survivor just made a mistake.
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Getting genrushed with map offerings and toolboxes while playing a midtier-killer also isn't the killer's mistake.
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Luckily they also have perks to help them. A variety of slowdown perks and detection perks.
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Ever going to stop crying about survivors?
BT and DS are like the only tools they have to defend themselves against a camping and tunneling scumbag and seeing how u keep crying about the same things, it is doing it's job well enough.
I seriously can't @ killer mains with their whining about almost every single thing survivors have.
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I think to an extent, ops situations and getting gen rushed are partly the person in questions mistakes.
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Which is what slow down perks and addons exist for. I don't disagree that the game needs slowed down a bit. But let's not pretend killers have no options.
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I agree Adrenaline is degenerate and shouldn't affect survivors not on hook or dying. Although that would make it stronger with swf than solo queue, at least it would be somewhat fair. Another thing is to require 2 generators' worth of progress to get it to proc. That amount can be adjusted it's just the general idea of having to work for it.
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No amount of slowdown perks can stop survivors on maps like Blood Lodge, Thompsons House, Rotten FIelds, Haddonsfield, Disturbed Ward, Mothers Dwelling, Ormond, and many more.
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I've seen it happen plenty of times.
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Maps aren't survivor second chance perks though. Although they are often far less balanced.
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forreal lmao
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and killers don't? im soo tired of killers complaining about every single thing survivors have and then call us crybabies😂😂😂 i can't
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You mean kinda like NOED, Blood Warden, Cruel Limits, Enduring, Fire Up, Lightborn, Mad Grit, Nemesis, Remember Me, Rancor, Tinkerer or Unrelenting? Since if you're going to argue that Decisive Strike, Unbreakable and Dead Hard "erase" survivor mistakes, you could just as easily argue the same thing about anything that activates based on generators being done, being stunned or blinded, or missing an attack as a killer.
The point is, there is nothing wrong at all with second chance perks, or perks that are designed to lessen the penalty of player error. For either side. It's just another way of playing the game.
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Was bout to say the same thing...
Erm...I mean...YOU WOULD SAY THAT YOU FILTHY SURVIVOR MAIN!!!!
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I understand the frustration as the killer, but wait, wait till you play survivors and play against killers who slug you for 5 minutes, tunneling you till death result in a 3 minutes game.
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Because even if survivors are the stronger role, they still get the strongest perks.
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Darn! My cover's been blown!
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Really, DS is the only problematic perk from survivors atm. You get punished as a bad killer, working as intended, but you also get punished as a really good killer, totally not working as intended.
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Noed i can somehow understand, but the killer has been playing with 3 perks the entire game.
Blood warden - the killer needs to open a gate and to hook someone, which isnt a mistake.
Cruel limits, fire up, lightborn, nemesis, rancor, tinkerer and unrelenting are never seen to be used and in the slight chance of being used they do almost nothing. Meanwhile, second chance perks are the survivors meta builds.
Remember me isnt a second chance perk too. You need to work for it and it gives almost no value.
Meanwhile dead hard you just need to get hit for it to activate, or decisive that you juat need to be hooked, or borrowed time that you just need for someone else to screw up.
All the perks that you mentioned (with the exception of enduring, mad grit and noed+-) or are really bad, or you need to do something GOOD for them to proc.
Now, survivora just need to FAIL at something for the perks to activate
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- That's not due to "making a mistake while looping". Most survivors who run DH make risky plays because they're running Dead Hard. And it can be played around as killer.
- Can't count to 60? Get DSd. I'm sorry, except for the stupid locker interaction the perk is fine.
- That's the most questionable part of your post that's already pretty questionable overall. You're talking about a perk which is simply a wasted slot most of the time. Unbreakable is a high risk high reward perk, just like Devour Hope or Haunted Ground. Besides, if slugging 4 people was an absolute win condition for killer the game would be much worse than it is.
Besides, killers have A LOT of perks which rely on them failing in some degree. There's a lot to complain about as killer: giant maps, dedicated servers turning survivors into formula 1 karts, things like that. But other than DS on lockers there's nothing even close to imbalanced on survivor perks.
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I just started writing a paragraph when I realized you covered everything I wanted to say.
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Imagine thinking getting slugged is a survivor mistake. Lmao
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I don't think those perks are about 'erasing mistakes'. They help survivors survivor in certain situations... and those situations don't always happen or killer plays around them... which makes them a wasted perk slot most times.
Dead Hard is the easiest one to deal with and often messes up the survivor. Bait it out or watch them run into trees and walls with it.
Always assume DS and use the downed survivor as bait. You can also just leave them and force someone to go pick their butt up.
Unbreakable is easy to deal with. Its one and done. They still need to SC or find someone to heal them.
BT is very easy to avoid.
Adrenaline is the one I hate the most, but if goes off and 3+ survivors remain it was mostly likely an L for the killer anyways.
On the flip side killers have a ton of perks that can been seen as second chances or mistake erasers. Yes Noed is the obvious one but I see that more as the survivors messed up and didn't do bones.
Pop helps control generators, Enduring and Spirit Fury let you play risky at loops. Fire up is litterally a bonus for NOT controlling gens. Whispers tells you if someone is in the area if you are bad at finding people. Discordance is a beacon to two or more survivors. Etc.
Tldr; survivors have second chance perks to help them in tight situations and killers have a ton of perks that make up for their flaws as well.
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If DS wasn't commonly abused because of a 60 second timer. If it went away when another person was hooked or unhooked I would think it was balanced.
Dead Hard is on you as a killer after the first time you miss it. DS needs a little tweak to be fine and balanced. Unbreakable is a fun perk, but very situational at best.
All of the issue's you speak of are very small at best.
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I was thinking something similar. I don't see most of those perks becoming meta; I personally don't consider them as strong as the survivor perks. Noed+bloodwarden is strong, but I still wouldn't consider that combo as strong as the ds, dead hard, unbreakable, adrenaline combo, because the benefits of noed can be denied or deactivated by the survivors; the killer can't deny or deactivate the benefits of ds (unless he has a mori and you don't jump into a locker), unbreakable, dead hard and adrenaline.
Another thing I'd question is the idea of getting stunned by a pallet being a mistake, because the mistake usually is respecting the pallet, specially at safe loops.
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i think you can change your mind when killer extinct at this year summer
delete ds and slower hook progression is better way to fix this game
than killers not gonna camp at least
im always using ds and unbreakable but its too good, even better than most items
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Enduring is a strange case, but its purpose is to correct the mistake of being stunned.
You can make the survivor drop the pallet on a safe loop without being atunned by it, but its really hard. Either way it corrects a fail that is to get stunned.
Getting stunned is bad, so that is what you should base yourself when judging this perk in specific, i think... But i understand what youre saying.
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Plenty of sharp blades have put an end to my mistakes. To make matters worse killers jump on the opportunity to kill the weakest links first so if I make a mistake and I get tunnelled and/or I make myself scarce. Only when this happens over and over will I say f this and put on the unbreakable and ds. I never start my day with it I test the water first. Same with killer. Noed, bitter murmur corrects a killers mistakes for sure.
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Although I hate the killer versus survivor mentality on this forum the only time I get truly annoyed is when survivors use second chance perks or mistake erases but the moment the killer uses somewhat of a second chance (NOED) they are slaughtered for it.
Like why can survivors use DH to erase their mistake or to make up for distance they shouldn't have gotten, sometimes denying the killer of a down but the moment the killer uses a perk like NOED for a second chance they are just insulted, laughed upon or is a baby killer.
This goes for both sides, I hate it when killers use NOED and then moan that a survivor used DH, BT, etc. Like if people use second chance perks then don't hate on the opponents for using them too.
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And the biggest one of all bloodlust. No perk slot needed.
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There isn't much gameplay to the survivor side, so it's hard to really design diverse perks that are also useful in the context of the survivor and killer objective. It's not like they can design perks that make you jump higher, for instance. There are plenty of perks that aren't second chances, such as Pharmacy, Aftercare, Solidarity, etc. But they're all very niche and pale in comparison to perks that directly keep you alive.
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Another reason why dbd needs to have new game modes.
1 reason why I only play 1-2 matches/day are, because I encounter always the same survivor perks and that is boring and sometimes exhausting.
I also don't use them in the rar games where I play survivor, because imo dbd needs not 1 more boring survivor with a boring perk-build. If that makes me dieing faster, I am ok with it. As survivor I don't need to be alive at the end of the match anyways, to win it.
But back to what I was trying to say: With more game modes, more perks would become important, I think. Maybe we would see then a rise of perks that the most survivors don't even know that they have them.
And no my survivor mains, I don't write this here to see those perks nerfed, but I am annoyed by them because you see them in literally every match.
I would love to see a bit variety.
Many killers wear not the optimal perks and I have the dream... :) that one day also more survivors just play to have fun and not always come up with some tryhard perks.
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DS is mainly a problem once the gates are open. Depending on where you down them, it's a guaranteed free escape. Can't pick em up or get hit with it, can't leave em on the ground because they can crawl to safety. I frequently tunnel just to burn the DS before the gates are powered.
DS either needs to not work at the EGC, or survivors can't crawl to escape if the killer is standing on the exit. Unbreakable and DS is annoying, again mostly at the EGC when people bumrush the hook.
I agree on dead hard, it's easy enough to counter by being patient. Annoying when used to be greedy on a loop, but not overly OP.
BT isn't that annoying either, until someone decides to body block. You body block me with BT, you just signed your death warrant. Had a guy do it last night, he body blocked, I waited the 15 seconds, downed him, ate DS, chased him down again, hooked him, then tunneled him directly off hook. He got 6K bloodpoints and I guarantee he depipped.
Pop/ruin and BBQ are good perks, but if you go against decent survivors, NOED never comes into play, because they destroy all of the totems.
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I hate when people complain about end game combos when all you have to do to stop them is prevent the gens from getting done. I guess the argument do dull totems, not even an actual objective to counter noed is much better than the killer stopping gens from getting done to counter DS or Adrenaline, which is actually part of the killer's objective.
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That only does so much at Red Ranks against good Survivors, but I see where you're coming from with this.
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If only that was in the killers power, "just stop the gens", you make it sound so easy. Sorry, but when you go against optimized survivors, it can't be done. Tru3 just had a match against those kind, he juggled well, made smart decisions, played just about flawless, and still only had a draw.
You hook near the gate, and someone comes along and rescues off hook. You down the unhooker, and put him on. The guy that was just unhooked comes in, gets the unhook and you down him. Now you slug, because you KNOW he has DS, so you force the other survivors out, now you're screwed. Zero counter play at that point.
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Pretty broad assumption to make that in all those instances, they are being slugged/tunneled/camped. There is no denying that survivors have infinite amounts of recovery options from mistakes, where as killers can barely afford to make one.
Realistically (as someone who actually plays killer and doesn't just blindly claim to), DS only comes into effect in non tunneling situations. Person gets unhooked, and throw themselves at you. Or baits you to pull them out of a locker etc. Of course, killers are supposed to ignore these people for being arrogant and flexing their "I'm invulnerable, get outplayed by a perk" status.
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Also Spirit Fury and Bitter Murmur.
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You must be playing against idiots. People who use DS play normally in my games, get off the hook, get on a gen, if killer comes by go to a pallet or window.
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Because BHVR doesn't know how to balance things, and they have decended down a deep dark rabbit hole of trying to fine tune microcosmic aspects of the game, which leads to all of the perks you listed, plus Ebony Moris, keys, one shot killers, insta heals, etc. etc.etc.etc. Both sides when specific mechanics are used, are completely broken.
Either devs really don't care on making the game balanced and intended it to be mostly RNG or they are just grossly incompetent.
There are a million of this very same thread on the forums though. Why is there no sticky already?
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Not sure why I expect this kind of shallow, non experience based response from someone who has admitted to not having played at red ranks as killer.
How is that going, by the way? You said you were doing it. I wish you much success.
I'm not saying what they do is a bad move - it's smart. Use what you've got at your disposal, bait the killer, I get it. I just think conditions need to be added to DS to make it so you should not go out of your way to GET tunneled, or to take a hit, just because you're invulnerable.
When I see that happen, I slug them all and just wait until they either bleed out, or DC.
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If survivors had shotguns and pitchforks to defend themselves then you might have a point. The way I see it, killers have infinite second chances built into the game since survivors can't even hurt them. Most of the second chance perks revolve around dealing with killers being scummy anyway. They are essentially anti-camping, anti-tunneling, and anti-slugging perks. The one perk that could be argued as being none of these things, MoM, was nerfed into the ground.
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Most of us actually play killer and I rarely get stabbed outside of tunneling situations. It happens sometimes but I still usually could’ve slugged and frankly, using DS like that is a waste since I can be tunneled now.
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That's true, but the OP wasn't arguing against the perks on the basis of their being strong, only that they "erase survivor mistakes" by requiring the survivor to be hooked or hit to activate and that killers have no such equivalent.
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If you are slugging that's you're fault, that's not what you're supossed to do, you need to hook survivors.
Decisive Strike can be countered by waiting the 60s or just not tunneling.
Dead Hard?
Seriously? A perk that's bugged, can be countered by waiting?
All of this perk WORKS because of the killers mistakes.
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Decisive Strike is to prevent tunneling, but can be waited out and rendered useless.
Unbreakable (Maybe Tenacity and Flip-Flop) is to prevent slugging, but you can pick them up immediately to prevent them getting up (or crawling away quickly than you being able to react).
Dead Hard is known to be glitchy and is a exhaustion perk.
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How do you counter people using Dead Hard for distance purposes (IE to reach a pallet/window to prolong a chase)? This is currently the preferred method of using this perk, given its unreliability at tanking hits on Dedicated Servers.
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