The Pig is really a RNG based killer
To start off, the Pig is weak on her own. Her steath is nothing compared to the Ghostface stealth. She can't see much, her crouch speed is too slow, she has to stand up to hit normally or grab someone. Yes, she can't be knocked out of her stealth ability but after being spotted she still has to go out of the stealth on her own to catch up with a survivor. (If you try playing like the Ghostface and use stealth during a chase, it won't turn out good in 90% of the cases.)
Her ambush isn't great, a lot of players prefer to use a simple M1 attack after spotting a clueless survivor because you can try to grab them and avoid the stun after a missed attack. Plus her ambush attacks don't even count as simple attacks so perks become pretty much worthless when you use the ability. The only way to effectively hit a survivor with it is catching them in a rare small loop and try to mindgame them. But most of the times in this scenario I can catch a survivor with the same success as the crouching Ghostface.
When you play against an organized team who does gens really fast and knows how to juke around the map, as the Pig you can only count on your traps. Unfortunately, the main purpose of the traps is slowing the game down and forcing survivors do something besides the gens (and maybe totems). They are not a real threat. But here comes the main problem with the Pig, I rely on pure luck when I place RBTs. Sometimes survivors get rid if their fancy headsets in a few seconds and the match is fully lost, sometimes they have to search a lot and as the killer I have enough time to kill some survivors.
The point is, as a survivor you can have a lot of fun against the Pig, she can be spooky and you can have long chases against her, her RBTs are looking cool and put that comfy pressure on you. But as the Pig you have the unique fun ONLY when you use your stealth which, in the end, becomes useless and you just run around the map because usually there is no time to sneak up on someone in the middle of a match.
Will the Pig get some kind of remedy? Her design is dope, put ironically, I want to play as the Pig after playing against her because as a survivor I had fun. But when I play as her, the fun ends right when I find my first target and sneak-attack them. Then I only do the simple M1 killer routine which can be done on any other killer.
(Sorry for any grammar and spelling mistakes!)
Comments
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What perks and add-ons are you using? What rank are you at? How long have you been playing Pig for?
Ambush can be good, but I can see why a lot of people go for the basic attack. Jukes and chases ARE the weakest part of the Pig's gameplay. You have to rely more on your stealth and mind games. RBT's can apply pressure, but that depends on the survivors in question.
So, to summarise, Pig isn't an RNG Killer her PRIMARY POWER is. And she has a very unique kind of playstyle.
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The only problem with Pig is survivors getting traps off of the 1st jigsaw box. Otherwise Pig is in a pretty good spot.
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I think they're afraid of making her stronger because when the survivors get unlucky the RBTs delay them for AGES. I legit think her traps should be less random with less edge cases (both removing first try and removing last try) so they could buff her stealth and ambush because that part of her kit is pretty lackluster imo.
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With the right build, it's very easy to kill survivors with bad RNG on traps. Unfortunately, the traps aren't setup to do anything else but kill when they go off. They don't stop you from interacting with anything else, like the Doctor's tier 3 Madness (his mechanics are dumb, but that's a different discussion).
Traps don't activate, so their focused time burn is entirely on the survivor's when not activated. Will they go heal, cleanse totems, or open boxes? Generally, they beeline to Jigsaw Boxes when trapped and activated, and Pig's only interactions can get them to straight die, rather than simply burn time and pressure them.
The nerfs to her trap activation at end game make me wish they had penalties for skill checks or some other interaction, but they really can't do that, since her addons already conduct the effects.
I, personally, love the +Box addons, but they're not even close to her strongest addon combination. In fact, I'd say they're on the weak side because it means her traps offer no extra penalties, and RNG almost universally favors them for the first 2-3 boxes. I mean, it's hilarious as hell dropping a trap on someone and watching them wear it for ages as they check all 6 boxes. (I had a Claudette once check all 6, and I immediately trapped her again after she finished.) When RNG swings more heavily, it's a pretty good power, and allows the Pig to actually avoid tunneling entirely (yay!), and I really like that about her design.
But if you compare her to Trapper, whose traps are excessively strong due to being nigh-inescapable 95% of the time, she's far weaker. I mean, Trapper is like a 1/10 chance of getting out of your trap on the 1st try, or a 9/10 chance of getting out on the 12th try. It's very stupid how they compare when their mechanics aren't all that different in design goals.
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The only thing I would add to Pig is the ability to grab people off Gens while crouched. Not sure how that can happen while keeping her unable to attack while crouched, but she loses that particular stealth ability. And I know, Wraith can't grab while cloaked, but he can quietly uncloak with the add-on and still get that grab, Pig always has her tell-tale weapon noise when she stands.
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The pig is the most obnoxious character to play against too, a lot of people use the traps to basically tunnel people with a little more flexibility than if they tunneled as any other killer.
I don't enjoy playing against Pig at all.
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This was my take away as well. Getting off the hook, just gives the Pig a lot of information, as you will probably be getting your RBT off especially if the other Survivors popped a gen after you were trapped.
And the +Box add-on is horrible. I only got to check 3 boxes as it were because she found me in the process and rehooked me. Then the RBT went off when I was at a 4th box.
You should have to get X# of great skill checks to get the trap off, with good skill checks having a smaller effect. Or hitting a Great skill check buys you more time. Something to make that part of the process less RNG.
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Yeah I don't find her OP or anything of that nature; I just find her ridiculously obnoxious and unfun to play against, with too heavy an RNG mechanic.
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Fun games when people just take rbts off from first search almost everytime. Im not lucky enough.
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check out scorpionz on twitch.. he streams daily and play almost only pig.. u could learn alot from just one stream
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This, I seen a few survivors do generators while trapped, me included, and sometimes, when I have one more box left, I'll do generators until 75% of my timer has expired then remove the trap.
RBT aren't slowing the game down that much, not when I can remove my trap at the first box. :(
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ok let me summarize your post (1st post on this forum btw xd):
in your opinion pig is weak because:
1) you dont know how to use her stealth
2) you dont know how and when to use ambush
3) and you dont know how traps works
yea, your opinion is valid, send ticket to devs they will answer you for sure
just watch how GOOD streamer is playing pig xd (not ruinoed streamer), Scorpionz or Tofu
imagine trash talking killer only because she isnt plug and play xd (if you want to play killer 1 to 10 times and know how to use everything in their kit play clown, not pig)
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I don't like the idea of removing the last box as a Key option because then the death traps go from "rarely kill" (which is reasonable) to "never kill," which kinda defeats the point of there being a Saw character to begin with.
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The idea is not removing it, it's tampering with the chances so that boxes 2 or 3 are more likely than 4 (and 1 doesn't happen). Reading my comment again I didn't make myself clear enough, sorry.
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I am of the opinion that the lethality of the RBTs is in a pretty good spot, and I am not in favor of anything that would end up making the Traps less lethal.
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I mean, I'm absolutely sure they'll never buff anything else about her ever without reducing variance on the traps, and I'd prefer her stealth to be less useless but ok.
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I disagree. I think there are multiple things about her that can be reasonably buffed without her having to be nerfed. Stealth speed, ambushing, Traps' consistency, add-ons. I think all of those things can be buffed without making it less likely that you need to search all the boxes.
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Excuse me, what? I don't even know how the RBTs work? Wow. What a discovery! If you know so much about the Pig, share you thoughts about her! I can point at some survivor main streamers and say "wow, look at them, all killers are so bad, these guys escape all the time!". Instead of putting a streamer's nickname as your main argument, it'd more beneficial for the discussion to see your thoughts on that topic. Not that "you're just bad xd". I wasn't trashtalking about the killer, I just don't get why wouldn't she be passively strong. She may be strong but also increadibly weak when you're not all that lucky.
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"share thoughts" let me type that for 2hours because someone dont want to find it by himself xd
long story short
if you use her stealth as if youre invisible its obvious you fail, if you dont use whispers and start crouch after seeing survivors ofc they will notice you, ppl learned how easy and thoughtless it is on GF
its not like surv has 25% chance to take trap off, key is located in box when game starts so its not like boxes are RNG based, thats why its impossible to make so you cant find key in 1st box because that would mean they have to rework how boxes works xd
if youre trying to use her dash during literally W key chase its ofc you wont get value (its not demo), you can use her dash around loops xd (so you can avoid getting pallet looped), about her dash not counting as basic attack its even better because you can use STBFL and use ambush on obsession
so instead of bitching how sth is weak maybe learn how to use its power to the fullest? youre literally like thousands of kids crying about killer being weak (because they played PTB for 2hours)
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It depends, sometimes I take the endgame perks, sometimes the pallet-burning build, sometimes the slow-down one. I play on red ranks against EU survivors that are russians for the most part (now imagine the pain I may go through). I play with different add-ons as well, most them aren't that useful. Some of them may help survivors! (If they press great skillchecks when I equip certain add-ons.) That's kinda strange for me as well. Mindgames are not really helping as well because survivors know that they need to go to another location (while you are crouching you give them kinda a window of opportunity for that) or they can stand still when they know that you bait them into leaving (her roar is kinda says when you're about to attack). Her common add-ons may help with that, thanks god. Again, stealth takes too much time. As some people above mentioned, her RBTs aren't even slowdown the game that much if they are not active. So yeah, I don't get why she can't be stronger when there are killers which have greater power.
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Am I bitching now? Wowie, thank you, your comments are really cheering me up, stop being so kind. I may even start blushing, you know?
Anyways, I know all that stuff, thanks. So what am I supposed to say? Oh, wait!
I need to slowly make my way to that gen which is kinda far away and I don't even know if survivors are up there! I can equip Whisper but hey, crouching for that long can be kinda compared to the part of time you waste in a chase. Also, I'm not invisible, if the location won't be filled with walls and will be filled with grass, I'll give away my position immediatly.
So? What should I do with that "key" information? It's still RNG, and from the gameplay perspective it doesn't change a thing.
Hurray, STBFTL now works (kinda) better with the dash attacks! What about all the other perks? Her dash, again, works on small loops, these are not that frequent.
Your whole comment is just: "You're just bad, learn how to play." Yeah, thanks again, very cool. Are you the offended Pig main who actually knows how to do stuff? Please, tell me the cool tips you've probably got!
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im playing on EU as well, vs same russian survs, and i use enduring, bbq, whispers, 4th perk is rotating between haunted grounds, monitor and abuse and crouch add ons
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"its not like surv has 25% chance to take trap off, key is located in box when game starts so its not like boxes are RNG based, thats why its impossible to make so you cant find key in 1st box because that would mean they have to rework how boxes works xd"
Assuming I am understanding you correctly, this is incorrect. The key for a given Trap is not selected until you put the Trap on someone's head. In practice, a Survivor does have a 25% chance of picking the right box and just getting the Trap off.
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Yup. M1 tier.
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But the place for the key for a given trap is selected at the moment the trap is put onto the survivor, right? Then you would still have to change this mechanic if you wanted to make it impossible for the first box to work.
Anyway, I dont think it would be too hard to make this change.
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Even her boxes and keys aren't RNG. The devs have stated it. When a trap goes on, a box gets a key. You pick right or wrong. It's not RNG every time you search that you "may" find one. One exists. You just have to make your choice.
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The only thing you'd really need to change is to make it so that the key is randomly placed when you search the first box instead of when you put the Trap on. I could be mistaken because I don't know programming, but that does not sound difficult to change to me.
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key is placed in box since game starts, so only RNG aspect is to which box surv will run, so RNG is in survivor not in boxes
and lets be honest changing that might be 20 lines of code but changing anything in this spaghetti code will end up badly
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"key is placed in box since game starts"
? But...it is not placed in box since game start? It is placed in box since Trap is put on.
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im too lazy to find from which dev i heard that but im pretty confident in that
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The devs have said more than once that the RBT randomly selects a box to be the correct one once it's put on a Survivor.
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No, that would not be too difficult. And even if you had to change the whole mechanic (to get higher chances for 2nd and 3rd and lower chances for 4th box) it would be relatively easy.
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As a Pig main, I think she's fine. The only thing that needs to be changed about her are her addons, cause a lot of them are useless. Also it'd be nice if survivors couldn't get trap off at the first box.
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