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End Game Collapse | Statistics
Comments
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I know this is sarcasm but I don't know which side you are being sarcastic toward. This is the first time I've ever been confused by sarcasm.
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That doesnt surprise me at all. I barely escape once the hatch is closed. I've always thought it was unfair but killers usually have it so rough.
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Okay, that's fair, but does this look like a 12.5% chance to you? These weren't from my experiment, but you get the point, the survivor has only one choice here — their only option is to die so they can move on to the next game. That's doesn't sound fair at all, and before you assume anything else, the same thing can happen to the killer as well with opposite Exit Gate spawns.
In my experiment, it's either a 100% or 0%, and those balance out to around 16%. Now, as someone who plays both sides, I want a flat 25% in every match that balances out to a 25%.
I suggest you read up on my comments before assuming I want survivors to have it easy, because what you assumed about me — it's quite the opposite actually. 😁
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Firstly, I want to commend you for reading my post and seeing where I'm coming from, it's really difficult to have a conversation in these types of subjects. 😁
Here's how my system would work, it's really simple and to the point. The reason why your idea won't work is because you can't always remove every vantage point with line of sight blockers — you have to completely surround the Exit Gates to do that!
That's why I made this since there's no way the killer can stand at one point and keep both Exit Gates in view:
Then, you can tweak the distance based of a calculator. The calculator will decide whether or not the survivor gets favorable gate spawn (25% chance) or not.
Here's a quote where I explained this more clearly:
That's why we have a calculator that determines whether or not the survivor gets a chance to escape, assuming they do everything correctly. The calculator will roll the dice and see if they get a favorable gate spawn or not.
There's a 25% chance the survivor will get a favorable spawn and a 75% chance they won't get a favorable spawn.
Favorable spawns will be around 8 seconds apart.
Not favorable spawns will be around 5 seconds apart.
Now, you may ask, "Well if the survivor gets the 25% chance... Does that mean I automatically lose?"
To answer that question: Absolutely not!
Here's what the survivor has to do after they get the 25% chance in order to have a chance to escape:
Feel free to correct me on the quote above, I'm willing to discuss this with you! 😁🤗
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Now, I think the EGC should be Killer sided, I mean, the Survivor's failed to escape at EVERY opportunity. However, it seems a little too hard to escape.
I am always open for some good ol' civil debate and friendly discussion, especially on these subjects! That's how we get really good ideas, like this one!
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Tbh if your team fail to do the gens, and you fail to find the hatch first and fail to get out an exit gate, even if they spawn on the same wall you should just take the loss
I agree killers shouldn't be entitled to 4k's but you can only mess up so many times before it becomes ridiculous
At some point you have to say that the killer did enough
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Ok I legitimately cannot follow your line of thinking here.
Your whole thread is about the fact that it's not fair that RNG gate positions determine how difficult the end game is for a solo survivor, so your solution is "Make it RNG as to whether the gates spawn close enough to guarantee you die or not."
We all play the game here, we know it's just as likely that the gates spawn on the same wall, or they spawn at the exact opposite ends of the map from each other. That's the same RNG deciding whether it's "favourable" or not.
And to reiterate, your data comes from 37 trials, and you're only 9% off what your 'goal' was. That's 3 matches either way. It would take hundreds of trials, before even considering other factors (including different ranks, the existence of perks and items that make escaping through the hatch easier or still an option once it's shut) to get anything resembling data that you can draw reasonable conclusions from.
The whole system of exit gates is not perfect, but it's still better and fairer than your suggestion is.
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The only time a gate will spawn on opposite walls are the indoor maps, the rest of the maps typically spawn on the same wall or have a vantage point to both gates. It's extremely rare or impossible that an Exit Gate would spawn on opposite walls in maps that aren't indoor.
Therefore, since outdoor maps and indoor maps are either a "They get out" or "They die", why not make every map a "It's possible to escape, but it's going to be very difficult"
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. 😁
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Tbh, the fact there is such a thing as a hatch is already in favor of the survivors. If the killer finds it first and closes it, I really don't mind the EGC generally being killer favored.
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And your suggestion simply doesn't fix anything.
Gates rarely spawn on the same wall, let's not pretend that's a common occurrence. Yes, they spawn with vantage points, that's a fact of the nature of a game with pseudo-random maps made of distinctly separate tiles. Tucking the actual switch away doesn't stop those vantage points existing, especially not with your suggestion of ALWAYS being on the same wall.
Gates are fine as they are, sometimes one side is favoured, sometimes the other side is, and at the moment it's overall weighted towards the side it SHOULD be weighted towards.
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Gates do spawn on the same wall 6/10 times, I played as the killer and survivor in my experiment to know that fact. In fact, every time I play a survivor game (not experiment), I check where the Exit Gates are at to see if I should rush or take my time prepping the escape.
The other 3/10 times they have a vantage point.
The other 1/10 times they were either balanced, killer had the advantage but it was very difficult timing or it was completely survivor sided.
Now, I feel like I would be dishonest if I didn't tell you that I did escape when the Exit Gates where on the same wall. That's because I rushed the Exit Gates and hoped the killer picked the wrong one to defend.
All I'm saying is if we had a setup that balanced everything around 25%, things would be fine. I know 25% seems high, but the survivor can't always get the hatch, even if they find it first.
Just look in this picture and focus on the HUD:
Notice the 2nd survivor just got sacrificed and the killer closed the hatch immediately. If I was already at the hatch, found it first, I still wouldn't get it because the killer has priority over the survivor.
Now, let's say we both didn't know where the hatch is at, well the killer can roam more freely than the survivor because the killer doesn't have to worry about getting seen unlike the survivor.
That's why I want a 50%/25%/25%.
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6/10 times is an obscenely high amount. I haven't seen gates spawn on the same wall this week. It's a low sample size which makes it very open to error.
And now, there's another thing, you rushed the gate and hoped. That's incredibly poor strategy and you still managed to escape 16% of the time just based on luck of which one the killer picked AND that they're far enough apart. You're suggesting balance changes around the results of playing with absolutely no strategy and just relying on luck. Including actually waiting for a killer to check a gate then opening it, let alone being able to do 20% of the gate stealthily first are both strategies that immensely raise your odds of survival.
The hatch prioritising killers is also a negligible factor, as dedicated servers are definitely coming to all platforms sooner or later, and removing the killer as host makes it luck whether the hatch shuts or the survivor escapes.
You say the killer can roam freely, but that's a very narrow viewpoint. If the killer has the time to scour the map for the hatch, it only happens because 2 survivors are both doing nothing and waiting for the other to die. (Let's not even get into the fact that playing like that isn't worthy of an escape) Either one touching a gen puts pressure on where the killer has to do something. When a killer still has to patrol gens, and gets occupied chasing people, it's the survivors that are more free to move around because they turn their attention to the hatch as their 'objective' so no longer have specific points on the map they have to go to. They also dictate the chases so can actively avoid taking the killer to the hatch.
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Cool statistics, BUT: your rules aren't realistic. In reality the killer WILL use his power for speed, or Trapper to trap the gate etc and well everyone is using perks.
I would like to see this experiment down again but without these rules.
Maybe once where u can use perks which aren't directly helping with the gates (wake up for example) and another time with perks which are helping I'm EGC (spine chill, resilience, wake up, whispers etc) and the best would be with a killer like spirit, nurse, Billy with high mobility.
I think the EGC survival rate with just the perk whispers is 0%
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6/10 times is an obscenely high amount. I haven't seen gates spawn on the same wall this week. It's a low sample size which makes it very open to error.
That's true, it could because of sample size, but I do plan on getting more games in to be more consistent!
And now, there's another thing, you rushed the gate and hoped. That's incredibly poor strategy and you still managed to escape 16% of the time just based on luck of which one the killer picked AND that they're far enough apart. You're suggesting balance changes around the results of playing with absolutely no strategy and just relying on luck. Including actually waiting for a killer to check a gate then opening it, let alone being able to do 20% of the gate stealthily first are both strategies that immensely raise your odds of survival.
I rushed because that's my only option left as the survivor, and even then, it only works when two things happen:
- Hatch spawns far away from both Exit Gates.
- Killer picks the wrong Exit Gate to defend first.
The reason why I'm suggesting balance over something luck based is because I want the EGC to make room for skill.
As a survivor, I want to see how well I prepared the Exit Gates, I want to see if I did the timing right, and I wanna see if I managed the EGC time well enough. That's all really difficult to do depending on who the killer is, their perks, the survivor's perks, and the survivor's situation before hand.
The hatch prioritising killers is also a negligible factor, as dedicated servers are definitely coming to all platforms sooner or later, and removing the killer as host makes it luck whether the hatch shuts or the survivor escapes.
True, but that's still luck, not, "Who finds it first, gets it," like many players want the hatch to be. That's why I want the hatch to not spawn in when there are generators remaining — it should only spawn in when there's one survivor left or when all generators are completed.
You say the killer can roam freely, but that's a very narrow viewpoint. If the killer has the time to scour the map for the hatch, it only happens because 2 survivors are both doing nothing and waiting for the other to die. (Let's not even get into the fact that playing like that isn't worthy of an escape) Either one touching a gen puts pressure on where the killer has to do something. When a killer still has to patrol gens, and gets occupied chasing people, it's the survivors that are more free to move around because they turn their attention to the hatch as their 'objective' so no longer have specific points on the map they have to go to. They also dictate the chases so can actively avoid taking the killer to the hatch.
I never hide for the hatch, I just want the killer to take their sacrifice instead of playing "hide and go seek world championship edition". However, when I point at a hook or work on a generator, they simply slug me, so I just watch YouTube videos while I wait 4 minutes to bleed-out.
Another thing about the hatch, it spawns in, assuming it's a 2 v 1, when 3 generators are completed. The killer knows two survivors won't be able to complete 2 generators because they simply don't have enough time to do so without the killer knowing. Therefore, killers will just find the hatch, find a survivor, hook them, use the sacrifice animation to reach the hatch, and that's it. Survivor had no choice there but to accept they had no chance to get the hatch.
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I think the EGC survival rate with just the perk whispers is 0%
Bingo, even when the Exit Gates spawn across the map, I know which Exit Gate the survivor is committing towards. 😁🤗
I use Whispers on my Pig and I never had a survivor escape during the EGC.
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If you honestly think your only option in the EGC is to run at a gate and hold it 0-100, instead of observing the killer, playing smart, and 20%ing the gate before going all in then I'm not really going to take your opinion on EGC gates seriously.
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It depends where the Exit Gates are at.
In this situation, the prepping strategy is the best option, but if they were too close for my liking, then the rush strategy would be the best option.
Edit: Here's another one to prove I know how to give myself a great chance during the EGC.
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