Ruin, Thoughts and Opinions
Comments
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So, Surveillance will be active on every gen?
Is this why it is still a Hex perk, because of the potential synergy?
Also, am I correct in assuming that if you bring Ruin, you cannot use PGTW, Overcharge or Surge?
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Appreciate the response, but I don't see the logic being applied here. Regardless of the wording on Surveillance, the only (normal) way to regress a gen is to kick it. The only other perk that does this is Surge, which, sounds to me like you guys are picking and choosing perk synergies.
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I don't think the new effect will be enough to warrant it being a hex. However, if it does remain a hex I'd suggest adding an effect to limit repair speed to 100%. Teaming up on gens would still let you repair it faster, but other bonuses from toolboxes or perks as well as great checks wouldn't apply as long as the totem stays up. This would ensure that the regression is always half of a single survivor's progress.
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Ruin WAS the pressure. You remove that, and there's nothing stopping the three survivors on the other side of the map completing four gens in two minutes.
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Part of the reason, but not the only reason. It works very well with Surveillance, but it's still pretty solid on its own. As for other perks, you probably won't want to pair them with Ruin. They can still be used as a backup if Ruin gets cleansed, but they're not ideal together.
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Hmmm. I'll be testing this out on the PTB, my first time yay! So I'll post my thoughts then.
Biggest problems I currently see is that totems are still unreliable and the effect is gives is not all that strong, especially in the early game, as you've said. Survivors WILL cleanse it as soon as they see it. The odds of it making it to the late game are very slim, as they are with every Hex perk.
I suppose we will just have to wait and see.
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I'm not a weak Killer, so I don't use Hex: Ruin. As a Survivor, it can be frustrating to be in a match with Hex: Ruin in play, and I like how it has been addressed. It seems a lot more fair.
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I don't really agree with these changes.
First x2 gen regression isn't that much when you consider base regression is 1/4th progression speed. It will still take 160 seconds for a gen to fully regress.
Second it's still a totem, and in a lot of games Ruin is gone in the first minute. So any late game potential is thrown out the window when the perk can just be removed from the game pretty much instantly.
Finally, while I am glad Gatekeeper got a rework, that's not really why people use Ruin. They use Ruin because otherwise the gens go way too fast for them to control. Gatekeeper is a completely separate issue altogether. The two are not related at all.
I do like the idea of automatically causing regression if it's not being worked on but I think changing Ruin like this is a bad decision.
Honestly if I were to have changed anything about Ruin I would have just increased the size of great skill checks by maybe 10% so that they are a bit easier to hit, then add the automatic regression feature and slightly reduce the penalty for missing great skill checks. This would have made it less frustrating to deal with for less skilled players and still require some effort on the killer's part to earn the pressure given by Ruin without gutting the perk.
I hope BHVR reconsiders this change. I agree Ruin is boring AF to play against, and I can hit great skill checks 95% of the time, but this is not the way to fix it.
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I'd agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that it's a one sided argument, you're removing training wheels while giving them to survivors. Ruin already had multiple counters to begin with if you weren't any good with hitting great skill checks and Pop is generally stronger than Ruin currently.
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Ruin was pretty balanced.
If you can't hit skill checks, cleanse the totems.
If you can, don't bother.
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Agreed
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Are you kidding with me right now??? Why is it even still a hex perk??? Omg I love the devs of this game!!!
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Cut them some slack, they are people too.
Everyone is upset, let's give them some time.
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It seems pretty strong still but I do have a fear regarding saves and solo play.
This has potential to make solo play worse imo as who will really leave a gen when its over 50% done?
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So you are confirmed that the passive regression will work with Surveillance?
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So new killers should get punished while new survivors should get their hand held because they can't hit great skill checks. Good logic....🙄
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Yes, it will. It will not work with Overcharge.
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Why? I am genuinely curious.
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FAX. And killer challenges are going to be so useless like sacrifice all in basement while running hex devour hope or some ######### because now it's going to be ######### to play killer unless your farming and half the times red ranks will think your running noed and won't help you
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Time to bring out all the Iri heads, Ebony Mori's, and and all the OP ######### i possible can to regain the ground that was just lost.
Red ranks is going to become the wild west.
You are killing your game.
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I decided to create another topic, cause my original comment to this one was too big. I gonna leave here a link, tho.
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I'm gonna just run huntress lullaby now. Hopefully it doesn't get destroy in the first few minutes of the game.
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I like it. It combos well with Thrilling Tremors,dying light and thanatophobia. However this only makes the killers who lacked map pressure like the clown even weaker than they already were.
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We'll see
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Exactly. That is actually what my brother is doing. He runs it almost every time and I started training great skill checks and using Detecitve's hunch and killer belonging maps, if I just am not fit at skillchecks.
My impression is, that nobody wants to sacrifice one of their favourite perks to run their build and prefers to complain about "bad design perks" instead, until they are nerfed.
@itsmetimohthy some of the best killers in the game. Exactly. Do you belong to them? That's probably about 5% of all killers that don't need Ruin on low mobility killers.
@Siren it is a point to say "you don't belong to a certain rank". Agree on that. But for example, I try the Oni adept at the moment. There is not a single game so far where the first gen pops about the same time I get the first hook, mostly the second pops before the second chase is finished. And THEN the game starts rolling. But 2 hooks vs 2 gens is the base kickoff. So what should be the strategy here? Run around the map hitting everyone and hope they heal? What I mean is, without difficult skillchecks, it doesn't make any difference if you encounter good or bad survivors. Everyone can hold M1 for 80 seconds and 80% of the survivors spawn right next to a gen, often in teams. So unless you don't patrol every gen until you saw every survivor and ignore chases, there will be a gen done within 80 or less seconds. Only exception: you have at least 3 survivors in game with urban evasion, that are afraid of tapping a gen before they saw the killer first. But even then, if you came past them, you need to return within 80 seconds or the gen is done. Don't know if you have 7 hourglasses on your table to keep track of which gens you need to check. I don't
@Peanits Many already said, Ruin won't last very long to make some value. Especially since the cleansing points and emblem points were increased and Inner Strength was added. And at early game, it has the least effect. If someone is not chased off a gen, it has no effect at all and the gen is done. Ruin was the only viable perk to help in early game, that is gone now. And to the point that it is good with other perks. These are both trainable perks and you still need to grind a lot until you get your builds ready for killers. Maybe for one killer, but not for all you like to play. Not sure what you expect how many of the killer player base will have that perk combo available.
I'm really curious about what version will make it into the game. The current feedback in this thread is overwhelmingly negative from both sides. And the only 'kinda' positive feedback is "I don't use it" and "git gud". So just by people who are apparently not affected by it. I really want this to be designed to a perk that takes effect early in the game. That is what is needed.
In addition to that: Puppers once said on stream "when Ruin is down right after the first hook, I'm fine with it, because then the game has started". And that is exactly the point. You spend a perk slot for it, so you have a chance to get into the game. Would anyone of you agree it is a healthy state to start off with 4 gens because you walked the map clockwise instead the other way round? That is what Ruin fixes, and you could run other useful perks instead. For me, just remove Ruin from the game. If you add some perk like "your obsession starts the game on the hook, being able to get hooked 4 times" or "When the game begins, you see the aura of 1/2/3 survivors for 5 seconds" like old Deja Vu, just to get a kickoff.
And just one additional note: If hitting great skillchecks is the reason for the Ruin rework, and Doctor with his mega unfair skillchecks addons and perk build is already set up for PTB, when will the second doctor rework come to fix that?
Another suggestion to not be complaining only. I would revert Ruin changes for the upcoming patch and target hex rework in total. I would add a passive and active effect. The active effect only being active while the totem stands, and the passive effect being active forever. And then balance the effects around that. For ruin I would suggest: the regression thing is nice as passive effect. But then the active effect needs to be weaker of course. Especially when the regression is active as well. How about
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That's probably because there's a second objective coming very soon!
Last roadmap we got the EGC, so we might get a second objective! 😁
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we don't have to play it to tell you that those few brave high rank trapper mains are crying right now
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Discordance does it better. At the start of every match without a doubt there are always a group working on a gen together. So you start the map with better tracking than hex would ever give you. The problem is either, 3 people gen rushing each gen, or they are all spread out pumping them out with tool boxes.
“Also you say once the killer gets pressure” that’s the point and the big problem. There are a lot of killers who can’t cause pressure. The Clown, I love him to pieces but by the time he waddled his chunky ass across the screen the gens already popped. He has terrible map pressure and this perk isn’t going to do a fiddler’s fig to help.
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Ruin is still hex perk. Check.
Hex are destroyed in first minutes. Check.
Ruin is supposed to be late game perk…
Yeah… because Lullaby and Devour Hope needed a friend in "niche perk" list out of all Hex perks
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"ONCE YOU GET SOME PRESSURE"
I swear, everyone at BHVR plays at green ranks at best.
Your patch notes say that you see Ruin used in an overwhelming majority of red rank games. Yet you say the changes to Ruin are to alleviate the difficulty of hitting skill checks for lower rank survivors. Do you not see how these two statements contradict each other?
At RED ranks (a place many BHVR testers have likely never seen regularly), by the time you "get some pressure", Ruin is either cleansed or has been found and you are working to protect it. By changing it to what you say it will be, you have removed the impetus to seek it out. This means that EARLY game, there is no pressure, survivors at red ranks will simply stay on gens, completing them in 60/44/30 seconds without items, less with toolboxes, etc. This is why you had to change Gatekeeper, because you KNOW this will be the case. You are catering to survivors getting 2-3 gens done before the killer even has time to pressure, hence the Gatekeeper change. You truly do not understand how quick gens go at red ranks.
Real feedback? Make the changes you have made to Ruin - fine. But change the BASE LEVEL GEN SPEED mechanic. Make good skill checks result in no extra progress, and great skill checks result in 1% or 2% more progress.
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We can hope!
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i like the changes but 2 things need to change,
- new ruin should not be a hex anymore
- gens need a 2nd objective, longer times wont fix it holding m1 is boring you need a 2nd objective to slow game overal
then game will be in a decent place
p.s. please fix matchmaking
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maybe u dont play m1 killers
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Inner strength, you get HEALED for cleansing Hex Ruin! Survivors had so many SO MANY things to hand hexes. Survivors can get healed off of getting rid of one of your perks. Does anyone else find that shockingly lopsided?! Killers should really get one or two extra perk slots. Since when you’re up against a SWF team your 4 perks are stacked up against 16 other perks. So in reality, let’s check our selves here. If you’re playing survivor, you get access to more than 4 perk slots and 1 item, you get access to 16 perk slots and possibly 4 items. But it’s hard to play survivor :’(
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I play Nurse and Pig. 😁
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I know it's early but these are my initial impressions.
I feel this could be a drastic change to the complexion of the game. Hex: Ruin admittedly is a very strong perk, as a Hex should be, you take the gamble of running a Hex perk to either gain a long-term powerful effect in the match, or it gets destroyed and you're one perk down. I'm a survivor main who wants to play more killer but with the recent killer changes with Oni, Freddy, Nurse, Spirit and now Hex:Ruin is making me less and less inclined to do so. Facing a Hex: Ruin as survivor is challenging but trying to escape a killer should be.
When reading the Designer Notes and when they spoke of the "benefits" of the new version, not one point was a benefit for the killer but only the survivors, it's a killer perk...
Hex: Ruin has been a staple since it's inception and will probably remain a staple if remained unchanged, the change does allow more other perks to shine. But I'm concerned about this level of change, if you asked me, these are the changes I would of implement I feel would balance the current Hex: Ruin a little bit more.
- Make the great skill checks slightly larger, only slightly.
- Remove the pause effect that takes place after the regression penalty when you hit a only good skill check.
- Or visa versa of example 2, keep the pause but remove the regression penalty.
These are small changes I would feel would maintain the essence of Ruin but balancing it out just a little more.
Like I said earlier, I want to play killer, but I also want to play ALL killers, I'm currently at red ranks as killer but I've only played Freddy and Ghost Face in this bracket. That's because there are low tier killers that don't seem to be as viable in red ranks due to their kit, Ruin was a perk that maintained some playability to these low tier killers and without that could make them even less viable than they're already are.
I hope the devs rethink their decision at this point in time about the impact this will make on both sides without having a stronger alternative put in place. I'm not biased for killer or survivor, I want the game fun for everyone but from this "Designer Notes" thread I haven't read anything about the changes of Hex:Ruin or The Doctor that says for the benefit of the killer. The thread seems extremely Survivor biased. Ruin is a heavy perk to go after and I think changes need to be steady to find the right balance. I hope BHVR find the time to read this long thread I wrote. This is my first comment on the forum for an account I just made because of how strongly I feel about this change.
I'll have an open mind to see truly what new Ruin is like but until then and if the changes go live, I'm sure we'll be facing a lot more Noed which I feel is a perk they should of looked into xD
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Well, off to using Huntress Lullaby now, is all I've got to say
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I honestly have to question, why people didn’t see what they’ve been doing to Legion a sign of things to come. You put a list of crappy things they’ve done to killer, but Legion was the starting point and “fun” for the survivors. Screw the killers. They’re SUPPOSED to be a part of the fun.
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Alright, well, I was more asking why you like the change.
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Oh #########, man I HOPE you are right.
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My thought:
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Seems like there is a lack of killers right now (judging by the instant killer queues).
Wouldn't you want to give players an incentive to play killer instead of another nerf?
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Okay, well, the strength of Ruin isn't the question.
The main alarming part to me is that the Devs now seem to have decided to balance around fun and new players, except when it comes to Killers. Now, maybe they are getting around to it, I don't know, I do not work at BHVR. I would like to continue to believe that the Devs aren't being Survivor-biased, but they aren't giving me much to go off of here.
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Gen rushing is the real problem that needs to be fixed here, we don't take ruin for the emblem, we take it so the game doesn't end in 3 minutes
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I do think BHVR completely missed the point of Ruin.
Everyone takes it for early game pressure knowing full well it will be cleansed fast. It allows Killers to get a foothold in the match and not have 3 gens pop in the first chase. It isn't for lategame pressure at all and redesigning it to make it an EndGame perk without removing the Hex status is just silly.
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So with thee Ruin changes is the gen regress going to apply automaticity when survivors are not on the gen or do you need to kick it first and then the gen regress 1/1.5/2 times faster ??
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Yes, the gen will regress automatically.
I think the maximum regression speed is only half as fast as Survivors repair.
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You assume that the survivors care about points and pips. It's about bullying, and BHVR just gave them the green light to do it.
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I dont need late game pressure. We need early game pressure. There's a reason why people use ruin and co and not fire up and noed
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Do me a favor and help me with this thought experiment.
The reason for ruin being nerfed and doc being arguably weaker than his current state is because survivors were too annoyed by said perk and killer. AKA change.
Now, we have post-nerf nurse, whom many people are quite unhappy with due to her mechanical feel being completely annoying. AKA no change.
:|
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