Is anything going to be done about the length of the game?
In the design notes the emblem has been changed to get bonus points after 9 minutes, but when was the last time you had a game that lasted longer than 5 minutes?
And now you're making one of the few perks capable of actually slowing the game down for any amount of time at all way worse at that. It's interesting and something I have wanted to come to the game but not like this.
So my question is, are there ANY plans at all to address the 1 gen per 1 minute phase we're in right now? Games are waaaaaaay to quick and this change is only going to make it worse.
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I'd be curious if devs had any feedback on this, but if I had to guess in they had future plans for increasing the length of the game: yes they do.
They likely have ideas for future changes to make, but need to see how killer games (with and without new Ruin) are going over the next few weeks in order to tweak those plans, and see if further changes actually need to be made in the first place.
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A few months ago I might've agreed with you. But every single change so far has just ignored the pacing problem of the game and they cxlearly only care about survivors fun right now since they even word it as such in their design notes.
I have lost all faith in the devs since Nurse, Legion, SWF, and the ongoing ignoring of core problems to the game.
Nothing has been done about SWF.
Nothing has been done about the pacing of the game.
Everything has been done to make survivors experience more fun and less annoying. Have you seen ANYTHING at all from the devs saying anything even remotely similar for killers?
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The average game at red ranks is 12m on the last stats. This was shown after 2 years of complaining about gen speed. There is no reason to think that it has dramatically changed with all the changes since then.
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They are doing something about it. They are making them shorter by deleting the only thing that could make them last a bit longer.
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oh my 😂 survivors don't lenghten the game on purpose like.. never 🤣
you can tell after 2-3 minutes if you have any change to win or not, the rest is just a theater.
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Whoever said they did? its good killers that put out pressure that prolong a game.
The game is never over until death or escape. Giving up before that point is one the player.
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You got a point, I haven't seen a post made directly addressing 'fun' for killers. It might have been mentioned in posts related the several survivor perk nerfs that have happened, but i don't remember.
They already addressed they would never directly put a penalty on SWF, but rather try to balance the game around it, which they are working towards. They answered my question in their livestream Q&A about if they had further changes for perks to bring solo queue closer to SWF (like they did with the kindred changes) and they acknowledged they did.
Catering towards survivor fun is kind of required, sadly, when 80% of the playerbase is playing survivor at any given time. I don't think there's much you can do about that in an asymmetrical game like this.
Regardless, I'm optimistic about the future changes and have faith in the devs decisions. Even though I've found some changes to be questionable, I can look at the game 1 year ago and how it is today and realize that it is undeniably more balanced than it was. So the devs must be doing something right
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Keep in mind it is very easy for survivors to get into red ranks currently. You will have 200 hour survivors mixed in with 5000+ hour survivors and both are weighed equally according to the game.
There is a massive, massive difference between going up against your average red rank survivor and someone who has literally every loop in the game memorized.
The game is totally different when you are fighting for literally every M1 hit. As opposed to what I typically see when I play killer, which is potato red ranks survivors who go down easy. There's still rank 1's who will camp shack pallet and stun me with it in the first minute of the game.
That's why I don't think those stats are meaningful.
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C'mon. It's not about giving up. When you play a lot killer and survivor you just recognize the patterns of how the game goes very early and you just know what kind of survivors you're dealing with. The only change late game normally is that when good survivors try to be too altruistic they can shoot themselves in the leg.
There just so big skill difference sometimes at red ranks you wouldn't believe.
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That’s kinda the 1v2 that creates those game lengths... but when there’s 4/3 survivors games go pretty damn fast and killers in red ranks are really gonna resort to knowledge of the game to get the 1v2 but survivors will adapt to those and I can imagine killer starting to get frustrating when survivors really click on to the cheeky strats.
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If that is truly the case then why do so manycomplain about red ranks while stating every game goes so fast? surely they would have more slower games than fast ones? the truth is ranks are about time played nothing more and most only remember when they lose a game badly.
I've saw matches where people throw themselves at the hook, others where 2 are left and manage to do 3 gens. Its never over till the fat lady signs. Even once the gens are done its never a good idea to give up as a kill can be just a few steps away.
Patterns change constantly and why the nature of a PvP game is different. The unpredictability is what makes them fresh even with such simple concepts.
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I laugh at unpredictability. The game is about running in circles around the same objects and doing the same gens over and over and over
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Yeah you're talking about potatoes, they come in many shapes and forms.
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Every survivor at red ranks is going to be rushing the gens, it's part of how they are getting there. If they are good in a chase or not is a different story. When I play survivor my goal is to always be on a gen unless I am being chased or saving someone. The chase is the only part of this game that takes any real skill.
Anyone can hold M1 and hit good skill checks, ruin is what stops people mindlessly doing gens and makes it require some sort of effort. You can get gen rushed by some rank 15's if you make the (poor) decision to chase their rank 1 friend too long.
The problem is, there is simply way too much to work with on a lot of the maps if you are good at looping and mindgames. But bad/new players will not use the pallets to their fullest extent, which is why so many need to exist.
The counterpoint is a map like Hawkins, where there is almost nothing to work with and it's basically a slaughtering ground for any competent killer. Those kinds of maps feel designed for rank 1 survivors, but end up being incredibly oppressive to newer players.
That's why you can have a rank 1 survivor who will camp shack pallet and just drop it on you while totally healthy, and a rank 1 survivor who will loop the shack for a minute, take a hit, loop it for another minute, and only drop the pallet at the very last second to avoid going down.
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Thats why we have to work at whittling them down as quick as possible, DBD is afterall a fast paced game and the more you down and hook the more pressure you put out and make them feel less safe.
I think each side does well to find strats and in turn to find counters. This casues a bit of a problem though as then some complain its not fair when it doesnt work.
The game has always been about that. To change that its then a different game. The unpredictability is to do with mindgames from either side.
Potatoes are on both sides. Good players tend not to rely on anything and Its their knowledge and skill which gains them wins.
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Rushing gens wont get you to rank 1. You need chases along with saves.
If survivors just do gens and get out then they back pip after a set point much like killers who camp.
Skill is in the chase for both sides but its not the only skill. Knowing when to evade, Leave a chase, Pressure a gen, Slug, Do gens, Take a hit, Mindgame plus many many more are all about knowledge and skill within play.
holding W or M1 will only get you so far.
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Catering toward everyone's fun is required. The problem is that Killers get no such consideration. Killers have progressively fewer tools, games are getting shorter, and higher ranks demand a form of metagame that is not fun in any capacity. Then on top of that Survivors get an arsenal of extremely useful perks that are all useful on their own while Killers often have to combine perks for synergy or they absolutely will fail.
Then there's the courtesies that Survivors expect of killers like not using NOED, not "tunneling" when removing players from the game is all but necessary, and not "proxy camping" or whatever BS they came up with when Killers realized hook camping isn't efficient anyway.
Any survivor mains that think this state of affairs is good remember this: The more utility Killers lose the harsher the meta gets. Then, after you've forced Killers to play a certain way, you'll decide it's not fair anymore so they have to find a new way to compete against an ever-changing standard of what's "fun."
Remember this too: The moment you make this game about having fun at your opponent's expense the entire premise of the game is mortally wounded and doomed to die.
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Do not make me laugh, exert pressure with the Trapper, GF, Plague, clown etc. .. please I have been playing since 2016 and I have more than 3100 hours.
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I disagree, otherwise I would not be seeing rank 1 survivors who are so bad in a chase.
Most red rank killers just play easy mode killers like huntress, billy, spirit, hag, freddy, plague, etc. It is not very often you run into a mindgaming M1 killer who is really good.
Someone like freddy is literally the hold W killer. Spam M2 and hold W, and can rock spirit fury for even more free hits. I've seen plenty of rank 1-2 Freddie's who don't mindgame, ever.
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Today, we Clown players rise up and will become the best killer.
Corrupt Intervention + Ruin + Surveillance + Discordance
Clown is not all that perk reliant. It will allow him to create a lot of pressure with the following perks.
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Survivors perks would never be nerfed if Killer's fun was never considered.
I agree about the last statement you have. I don't understand why some people feel like they can only have fun at the expense of other players. I'm not a fan of that mindset.
Ruin in no way affects how much fun I'm going to be able to have in a game. I don't understand why being 'meaner' because games are going to be shorter is required. I can have just as much fun in a game that lasts 2 minutes less when I'm not running Ruin as opposed to a game where I am running Ruin. I might get less downs or hooks, but that doesn't mean I'm having less fun.
I see all these killer posts threatening that they have to face camp now, but face camping just makes games end quicker and in a worse spot for the killer, so I'm confused. It seems like the posts are more coming from 'I'm gonna be mean unless the devs give me what I want' rather than 'I'm going to have to get used to playing without Ruin'.
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Always and these game happen and why it's never over until the match ends.
The same happens on the flip side though and some games end in 3mins for a killer
One distinction though is with these arguments the survivors were being potatoes while the other always seems to be the killer played the best they possibly could.
I am all for changes and i think its a bit unbalanced in certain situations but we have to be reasonable at the same time.
Otz shows it differently and what a good player can do with any killer.
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I'm glad somebody saw that post before I tried to edit it and the auto-moderation system ate it. I'll admit: I mostly play Killer and I tend to play during Blood Hunts so I end up lurking the lesser rank tiers. If I'm playing against people that seem to be struggling I'll even dial back the pressure or just leave people slugged instead of hooking them a third time. I've even went and hid in the basement because I felt like the survivors needed a little break.
The higher my rank gets the less this happens, obviously. I have to start playing the pressure game from the start and do it as hard as I possibly can in order to have a chance against SWF in mid-ranks. (And as far as I know there's no warning that I'll be playing against SWF, even though one would be both nice and a reasonable piece of information to ask for.)
By red ranks everything is cutthroat and Killer is a struggle to get as much out of every second as you possibly can while Survivor becomes an exercise in creating a meta perk toolset and (ab)using it as much as you can.
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But then if most are not good then why so many complaints? That itself tells more of a story and you then have to wonder what the complaints actually mean when they complain every game is a swf hit squad when rank 1 is full of bad survivors.
There are plenty who can do extremely well with low teired killers. Maybe its not the killer but the time they took to learn them. Survivor after all are just skins where as each killer needs to be learnt to be effective with them.
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That is because there are just as many bad killers as there are bad survivors. As I stated before, there's plenty of killers at rank 1-2 who don't, or cannot, mindgame; because they don't need to. The killers themselves carry them.
I must have around 5000+ hours in this game and there's only a handful of sweaty SWF groups I recognize. The ones that run every second chance perk in the game, know how to loop like gods, and also rock every broken item that exists. The other 95% of my killer games are stomping solo Q players who usually do not have a prayer.
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Is it the killer or a mix of also certain perks carrying them then much like some survivors?
My point is always rank is not about skill but time. This game doesn't separate a 5k hour like yourself with a 100h player. This is why most complaints need to be taken with a grain of salt as they will be versing better players.
In your case you win 95% of your games then only 5% are top tier. So If it's down to bad rank 1 players on both sides then in theory that would even out as you need 4x the amount of bad survivors per bad killers to even it out in the stats.
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They are doing something about the length of the game.
They are making them even faster now.
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Beat me to it.
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I would say the last bastion of BS that survivors hold now is the keys. But killers still have a wealth of overpowered items and characters to call upon.
And the keys are honestly not even that overpowered for solo Q, only for SWF on comms, which is overpowered to begin with. I don't mind keys in solo Q because it is very hard to communicate you even have one; or have found the hatch.
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I can agree with that. Personally I just wish the things that were overpowered were a lot more rare to get.
When I ran plunderers for the challenge and I pulled 3 pink keys out of 5 chests I was in disbelief.
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I had a 4K merciless turn into a 1K brutal last night due to a key. Had everyone on death hook, 1 gen left, then suddenly match over. I was irritated.
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Working as intended even though that would almost never happen in a non-SWF group.
Thanks BHVR!
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