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So I'm watching otz
And maybe I've calmed down a little. He has a good point. People complain about gen speed. If they change gen speed do you think people stop running ruin? No. They won't. So change ruin, see how it goes then change gen speed. That actually makes sense and if it is the plan it would be cool for someone to tell us. I'm still skeptical because it requires doing what makes sense. When you have people in your own fog whisperers program that say "think of what makes sense, and bhvr will do the opposite" I'm not going to hold my breath. But there is hope this will turn out ok?
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Why all these false hopes? Also even if that's the plan, isn't this our beloved "soon"?
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BUT THEY WONT!!!!!! If they change gen speeds, it will be buffing them, not nerfing.
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My problem is that this same logic that went into increasing the stun time for DS to account for Endurance, and then when Endurance stopped affecting DS, they never changed back the stun time.
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No. Unless survivors enjoy slugging. Because that'll be the slow down route now.
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if they nerfed it after fixing the gen speed and maps, I would not care less.
BUT, looking at current state of the game, this changes are a joke
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I.. I'm hoping that's the case, if it is, we might FINALLY get the gen rushing issues, but if it isn't and they kept the gen speed the same, then there's going to be a riot since it actually gave weaker killers a chance towards higher ranks.
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Here I am trying to grasp at some hope and you all keep throwing reality of how this game is run in my face lol
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Like how they over-nerfed Nurse and Legion and then went right away into adjusting them to be balanced?
Oh wait...
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It's almost like the past 6ish months haven't been very kind to killers overall.
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They won't change the gen speed. They said in this forum so many times...
"Gen is the only thing that survivors has to do in this game." It's like: survivors can play the game but killers don't, because the game is already done when you lost 2 gens during 1 chase. Not to mention the map design has so many influences in this game (Haddonfield, Thompsons, Rotten Fields, Red Forest). So yes, I don't have hopes. Otz has a good point btw
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Do you really think the devs are smart enough to do this?
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We all hope that gen speed will decrease after this Ruin nerf, but this most likely won't happen, and there are two strong reason for that
- Devs already know that this is a big nerf for early game - but they decided to solve this new issue by changing the Gatekeeper emblem system.
- Doing a generator is a M1 simulator, having to press M1 for longer times is a big no-no from a playtester point of view. You can already see that with Forever Freddy nerf (which was absolutely legitimate by the way).
But honestly, what I'm more worried about is the Docs changes, especially the ones they didn't talk about in the Dev post. This will be a very divisive patch.
Post edited by Nobsyde on5 -
Why? the only "bad news" i can recall for killers are the nerfs to nurse, spirit and legion, on the other hand they got Demo and Oni, which are frankly amazing killers, and Ghost Face, that, while no being as good as the last 2, is still be extremely fun to play as.
Survivors have had it harder IMO, not because of nerfs or anything gameplay related , but because of game breaking bugs.
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You lost all validity when you said demo is amazing
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Game breaking bugs...like the one that's been going on for a full month that released with the basement bug which got rushed to be fixed within a week (barring the few outliers that still happens supposedly). Killers get them too. So 3 nerfed killers along with RELEASING 3 new killers. Releasing a new killer isn't the same as buffing an old killer. And I doubt many would say oni/demo are amazing (at the moment at least. ptb will tell if oni 'issues' are fixed for the main users)
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game breaking bugs like what? Perma speed boost? No sound on downed survivors? Messy sound collision which makes footsteps and generators completely silent?
No, really, what survivor bugs are you talking about :P.
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What kind of masochists would the devs need to be to reveal only half of their plan knowing full well this will piss off a lot of the fan base? Its simplier to assume that they have no future plans to fix gen speeds.
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"I dont want to hear you because you dont think as me"
ok
#########, didnt think that trough, i guess i took the basement bug/exploit way too seriously.
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Not about thinking the same. It's pretty common knowledge.
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oh the basement bug! the one that was patched in 48 hours! Yeah, you're right, literally unplayable :).
I guess the sound bugs though, which is something present in every game, are much less serious. gotcha.
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No it's just the basement bug got fixed near immediately in comparison to the sound bug that is still going on since oni's release - the speed boost which I thought got fixed is actually still going on at times, one guy was running circles around me as trapper right into a trap. That's why we don't feel good about "hey maybe they'll fix this killer issue soon".
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Gen speed/difficulty needs to be reworked so that gen slow-down perks and add-ons are no longer needed and can be removed entirely from the game.
Perk and add-ons should be for fun or to help players in areas where they struggle. Fast gen times is more an issue with the game mechanics; killers have enough crap to deal with in terms of just pressuring and chasing and hooking survivors. The purpose of generators is to help killers find survivors and to sort of police the speed of the game, but generators are terrible at that second thing. Inexperienced survivors are severely hindered by gens and experienced survivors can breeze through them. It's not like generators are fun, either; it's boring holding down the trigger button and just sitting there. I can zen out while doing gens. In a horror game, I'm zenning out. Meanwhile, the killer's stressing as they're in a race against time. Yeah, that's fair.
So, generators reworked, gen slow-down perks and add-ons removed. This change to Ruin says that generators are not going to get the serious rework they need and that gen slow-down perks will remain in the game. That's bad.
Sure, the things I've mentioned are easier said than done, but they'd be worth it for the health of the game. Right now, both sides are extremely unhappy. Killers don't like using certain perks but feel they need to and survivors don't like going against those same perks. Survivors use certain perks because they feel they need to and killers don't like going against those perks. However, killer stuff that's counterable is being changed/nerfed while only uncounterable stuff on the survivor side is being nerfed. Instaheals, MoM, original DS: those things had no counter. But Ruin has counters: hit great skill checks, hit good skill checks and power through, or cleanse the totem.
I think a lot of killers actually would stop running Ruin if gen speeds were adjusted, because killers don't necessarily like running it. After all, it's a hex perk that often gets cleansed at the very beginning of the match. But I could be wrong, and anyway, like I said, I think gen speed/difficulty should be adjusted and gen slow-down perks/add-ons removed in one fell swoop. Piss both sides off at once instead of staggering it to only piss off one side at a time.
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Wait so Otz is for the Ruin changes? That's interesting. Respect to the guy for not bashing the devs like everyone else and actually presenting a unique perspective.
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I consider demo to be a pretty good and fun killer capable of applying great map pressure and cutting some loops fast with shred.
I wouldnt consider how good a killer is to be "common knowdlege", thats pretty subjective.
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He's never liked Ruin honestly. He usually says something along these lines "If I win with Ruin, I don't feel like it's a win usually. It stays up for most of the match and I have some of the easiest matches."
He's also quite a heavy user of slugging / single hooking though which I personally don't agree with, but it's sort of necessary if we're going to go along with this no ruin line of thought. If you're supposed to hook every survivor 3 times when DS and borrowed time exists, how are you going to do it without pressuring the survivors to not be on gens while 1-2 people are being chased at a time max.
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Otz also said that even if the changes to Ruin are potentially good, gen repair speed should be slower to balance them out.
This being said, Otz is an incredible killer, able to have good runs even without ruin, so there's that.
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I don't use Ruin either and I slug a lot. But I try to avoid one hooking or slugging every survivor just because I play for pips not for a 4k. I'm fine with letting survivors make saves to keep the game going, so long as I still maintain a good amount of control. Generally I only slug as a means to save time rather than secure a 4k.
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Slugging will definitely be the new meta which sucks. I don't find it fun as survivor or killer.
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He aims for the 4k/win (I say win cause he usually lets the 4th hatch escape after he's secured victory). In his streams sometimes he gets a bit greedy and he ends up with a single hook when he had someone downed + downed another, but saw another and chased them for far too long so #4 saved the previous two. Though I suppose this is also 'pressure'? since he'll have 2 injured people and a hooked so no one's working on gens since they'll obviously be healing now in the current meta.
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"Change ruin and watch gens fly and then decide what to do about it"
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And you din't mention that Oni got straight away nerfed one Week after release lul.
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"Let's remove the thing slowing down games and decide how we want to slow down gens later."
Seems like a really bad idea to me. If they realised what Ruin is used for they should have thought about other ways to slow gens to implement alongside it.
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Why not just remove gens and make the game about chases? That's where the fun's at anyway, right? Just build more around that. Okay, I'm half joking.
IDK who oats is, but I stopped using Ruin long ago because it doesn't slow down anything and they find it within minutes. Pop is much more reliable (plus they can't take it from me). Hehe.
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Here's the thing, I've hit Rank 1 on both Killer on Survivor using both meta and off meta builds. There's no doubt that this game is survivor-sided and the patch notes are very obviously survivor biased, especially reading the Doctor changes. I typically dislike running meta perks like Ruin and Noed as they're brainless perks in my opinion. They don't teach you to play the game. If the devs want to absolutely ruin gen speeds so they fly by faster because rank 16 survivors complain let them. I have at least 90 Ebony Moris on my nurse. If killers can't have fun then survivors wont either lmao.
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