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Remove "HEX:" from Ruin?
Not saying its a flawless idea but... what would be the worst that could happen if ruin didn't have a totem with the new changes? maybe make regression speed to 100% instead of 200% but no totem?
EDIT:
Tbh I didn't actually expect to see so much feedback and I liked some other suggestions that some of you have put in here. Below are the current suggestions that i also think are worth having a look that go into the same line of thought. I hope you don't mind me tagging you btw.
So far, the worst problem would be that comboed with surveilence, a non-hex ruin would be too strong because you would know at all times if a generator started or stopped being made.
Regarding this, yes, i think its a legit concern, but killers would still have to dedicate 2 perk slots to it. to solve this problem, like @TAG and others after him said, surveillance could work only on kicked gens. Just how it happens with other perks that are kick only.
@Ryuhi also said "make it so that if it gets clensed before 1/2/3 gens are completed, it retains its initiial effect with 50% potency. In other words? if the hex dies before it actually gets to be used realistically, it keeps the auto-regression without increasing regression speed."
On a different note @HatCreature suggested having the totems hidden by some objects where survivors would have to waste sometime removing the object to see if the totem is there. I think this is an interesting thought but it would require some major changes.
I'd like to ask you to try to be civil. if you want something to go for the better try to suggest something and not just bash on others' decisions. Devs would probably listen better without so much noise. I have at least double the hours as a survivor than i have as killer, and i have been playing since 2016. I understand the survivor frustration idea towards ruin but i also understand the frustration for killers to be ripped off of ruin so early in game sometimes. On that note, I respect any outcome.
Comments
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i agree with you, the new ruin is so bad as a hex, and keep the 200%, its still slow. 180 seconds to regress a whole generator.
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The worst that comes to mind is combining it with Surveillance. Any time a generator is being worked on, I would know. The instant you get off it, I'd know. Normally cleansing Ruin is the only way to counter that, so removing the hex aspect means that the killer always knows where you are and has no counter.
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How dare you even suggest actual fair compromise!
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You created "late game" hex and its nonsense. At higher ranks no burning totem survive 3 minutes. When do you realize that creating "late game" hex is useless. Only way to keep that hex is sit on it and dont move.
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Have you played your own game?
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Simple: Change Surveillance to only work on kick like with Pop or Overcharge. Surge should be buffed anyways, so losing the synergy is fine by me.
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It is a badly designed perk, too weak to be a Hex but too strong for a non-Hex.
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There are other methods of helping it to last more than 30 seconds without making it a non hex perk. Non lit totem, double lit totems that have to both be found, anything....
Just show that you guys actually care about the one issue killers had, and not that you only listen to the survivor complaints about things =/
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And how many time ruin, or lullaby, or any other "active" hex survive past the first 3 minutes?
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I think it is not that easy to just remove one synergy effect. Peanits already said somewhere else that there are perks kick based and some regression based. That is what makes the synergy of certain perks. Changing that for a single perk might cause several bugs (just a guess). There are now a handfull of perks related to kick and regression. And they have quite clear and I think also intended synergy (or no synergy by intention). And that is what makes the new Ruin design pretty weak as it does not fit into that.
In my opinion, the Surveillance synergy is the only viable combo for Ruin. And with that, it makes sense to stay a totem. But Ruin on its own is weak. It doesn't protect the first gen from being popped early because you cannot pressure 4 survivors in parallel and when it gets stronger in mid game, it will most likely be found by accident already.
The old ruin forced survivors to progress more slowly on gens or spend some time to find the ruin. It was only useless if someone spawned in LOS to the totem or in LOS of a gen that is worked first on. In all other cases, Ruin gave you at least lets say 30 seconds to a minute of total lost gen progression.
New Ruin gives you almost nothing in early game and survivors are not really forced to search for it. Normal game progress lets you get pass typical totem spots and you are able to finish 1-2 gens and find it by accident. As the kick and regression based perks are set up at the moment, Ruin really is the weakest of all gen protection perks, unless combined with Surveillance. And the change leaves you on a lost spot regarding early game gen protection. I'm pretty sure that Corrupt Intervetion will now be Trapper meta and Pop will take place of ruin, regarding the "most used perk in game"
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Can you tell us your stream?
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How is a synergy with Surv a bad thing? Two perks should give something in return, I think you should reward combining effects, not preventing said combination from happening.
Similiar reasoning to Enduring not working on all stuns, honestly.
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How do you have 3 million auric cells?
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So your either low rank or can't use logic...nice.
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Link a clip where he is playing red ranks as a killer please.
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Surveillance + ruin doesn't work. Done.
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Actually tested the "op ruin surveillance combo"
So, it's just regular surveillance + saving me a gen kick. Top tier perk combination, rly op.
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can't synergize with anything if it's gone in the first 30 seconds of a match~
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Do you upload to Youtube at all? Any stream clips? I do not like Twitch at all.
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Because they knew this was going to be an extremely unpopular decision, and didn't want the mods trying to clean this mess up for two weeks. Hell no they're not going to listen to the community, they're arrogant mindset is that they're not going to lose enough killers to make a difference. They could be right, but I seriously doubt it.
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But new Ruin activating Surveillance isn't consistent. And all of a sudden you're big into consistency.
Without new Ruin, Surveillance doesn't start automatically start tracking generators if survivors stop working on them. You have to KICK the generator to activate it.
But new Ruin doesn't care about that. But it DOES care that you need to kick gens fro PGTW, Overcharge, and any other perk that requires you to kick a gen.
So it seems to me that you Devs have a decision to make. Stop Surveillance from working with new Ruin, or make ALL gen kick perks work with it.
Cause remember, you nerfed Legion for "consistency". So be consistent.
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I would also like to see this
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You could easily make it where surveillance only works when you kick a gen. Like overcharge..
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You don't balance it though, lol. The actual devs are supposed to know the difference between a good change and an absolutely horrid one. Tell them congrats on shifting the community into a state of chaos though.
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Bold of you to say the community is in a state of chaos when probably not even half of it is active in any form of DBD related social media, let alone the forums.
Me and everyone I know who plays the game are pretty much OK with this patch. I can do anecdotal "evidence" too
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Hex perks themselves really need to be readdressed in general if changes like this are going to continue. Want to make it not be as much of a dumpsterfire when it gets clensed instantly? make it so that if it gets clensed before 1/2/3 gens are completed, it retains its initiial effect with 50% potency. In other words? if the hex dies before it actually gets to be used realistically, it keeps the auto-regression without increasing regression speed. A similar mentality could be applied to other hex perks to make them less useless as well.
"Thing popular = thing need nerf" is terrible balancing philosophy to have in a pvp game, especially one thats asymetrical. it's not 1v1, you can't balance it for 1v1, so if something is used very often you have to be extra careful in scrutinizing WHY. Just take a workplace day and grab some popcorn and watch the slew of high level content creators discuss changes every time you post them before a PTB goes live. Have someone bring cookies and milk, set up a laughtrack, whatever you need to do to get everyone on board with taking in that information.
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You're right, a lot of them just stopped playing the game and moved on to other stuff as changes like this happen. Gotta account for the silent players who just peaced out :)
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Oh yes the playerbase is falling HARD the last few months
How will the game ever survive with the next level gamers quitting because a single problematic perk is gonna change and BS killers got a slap in the wrist
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Most hexes are late game though :/
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The Forums are a dumpster fire, Reddit is a dumpster fire, and YouTube is a dumpster fire.
Maybe you should open your eyes before you mention me claiming that your group of friends opinions decide the state of the community. 80% of the popular content creators disagree with the change completely, that's not even taking into count the few like Monto who would rather test the changes before he finalizes his opinion, so 20% is a generous number to give to the people who think this change is a good one, given. And most of their opinions will be shaped because so many content creators a talking about the change negatively.
An overwhelming majority of the people voicing their opinion, anywhere, are saying no. Even the survivors voicing their opinion are disagreeing this time. Your small group of 4-20 friends being OK with this patch isn't evidence for the state of the community.
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Liscenced DLC will always bring in new players, especially if its something as popular as Stranger Things. Do you have statistics for how many people have left? How many have been playing less than they had in months prior?
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Neither is social media. Please show me how many people out of the entire playerbase are active on these sites, I dare you.
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I don't know, do you have the evidence? When you make a claim you need to prove it otherwise your point is worth absolutely nothing. The burden is on you chief
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lets think about this from the opposite angle for a second: Imagine if killers could entirely remove survivor perks at any point in the game, including the beginning. Lets say that at fixed points on each map, there are little survivor dolls or something that allow a killer to completely disable an exhaustion perk for the entire match. How much would survivors riot? Would it be fun if your sprint burst or dead hard was disabled in the first 30 seconds of the game?
The concept of Hexes being an all or nothing is entirely flawed to begin with, especially since there are 4 pairs of eyes that can spot it vs 1. The only thing it had going for it was that Hexes are SUPPOSED to be incredibly powerful to offset the risk of losing 1/4th of your loadout in the (very likely) scenario that it is clensed.
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Dude did you actually read ANY of what I just wrote? I'm not interested in how many people are active on the forums, at all. I've pointed you to the overwhelming amount of disapproval these patch notes have gotten. Don't reply to me again until you go back and actually read what I wrote, and skim over the front page of the Forums, and Reddit, as well as look at the opinions of TydeTyme, ScottJund, and Ardetha. The posts and comments of the posts AND a majority of the comments on the videos listed seem to agree with the opinion. P.S. this isn't even mentioning twitter, lol.
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you already provided it. The numbers wax and wane pretty heavily in retlation to DLC releases. Look at July and October for example, those numbers plummeted. December didn't do so hot either.
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People outraged at Freddy rework (muh snares are TOO WEAK), exhaustion nerfs for crying out loud. I'm not saying the Ruin changes seem good now but you can't take this community's hysterics at face value. People HATE change of any kind.
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No matter how you analyze the data there's no meaningful drop in the playerbase consistently speaking. A few months were better, a few were worse than 2018, but the game still trended upwards.
How come December didn't do so hot? It was still one of the best months of the year for the game and A LOT better than Dec 2018. Are we even looking at the same charts?
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Why do you think numbers EVER go down? because people who own the game are not playing it. Since you can't "un-own" the game, new players will ALWAYS skew growth without having any sort of metric to differentiate them vs an existing userbase. For numbers to wax and wane THAT drastically means that either many existing players are dropping out for long periods of time (or permanently,) or that the amount of new players is minuscule. Guess which one my money is on.
As for december, numbers went down vs November. This was in a month that actually had a new DLC release as well.
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You must be a troll or something. The community has been split on both of those changes. Many were not happy with the exhaustion perks and the weakness of the snares, but in both instances there was a different side (an even side) voicing the differing opinion.
This. Is. Not. Even. The other side is absurdly small in number. The popular opinion (and I mean really popular, like I've never seen this much outrage from the community) Is that this change is a terrible one. I've been with the game since launch, and I've been in Reddit since it was open, back when it was entitled survivors complaining about how bugs kept getting them killed. I have never seen backlash from the community anywhere close to this scale.
And the idea that the devs should ignore the backlash because "Wahhh change!" is more absurd then you using the exhaustion nerf as an example to support your claim.
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Wow, who would say that games that rely on people constantly playing them have PERFECTLY NORMAL ups and downs in their player count? Refer to LITERALLY ANY multiplayer ongoing game. It would be concerning if it didn't have fluctuations.
No game grows non stop for all eternity. The fact that this game is many years old and still somehow growing shows that it's still a great game.
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Sorry if I'm reasonable enough not to jump on the hate train for something that has been up for testing for like 6 hours. Real troll that I am.
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I'm laughing how many people are saying "just make it not work with Surveillance." Not that I disagree, I think that's 100% a good point. Just... seems so obvious
Anyway, isn't the point of surveillance to know when survivors are on generators? I'm not saying it wouldn't be problematic possibly but, that's one of the less OP things I've heard of/seen, some actually being in-game on live servers.
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Well, the worst thing is not addressing gen speeds and nerfing a perk that slowed the game into a perk that's now very weak as a hex since it's effect won't last a minute which is as long as hex perk last and this new ruin is meant for mid to late games, but like I said earlier, about it lasting a minute, the actually regressing abilty won't buy enough of the the killer's time/pressure to even get a chance to use it before it's cleansed. Unless you have some major changes or plans coming to address gens or secondary objectives, the worst thing to happen to this perk is the dev's touching it.
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I think the new Ruin is interesting but like everyone has said, Hexes don't last to the end game.
I'm not playing the PBT but I'm assuming the Survivors have a notification you're using Ruin so they go look for the totem and then because totems have horrible placements they get destroyed instantly, I frequently spawn on Hex totems despite the amazing line of sight check that ALWAYS WORKS. This is because the old maps were not designed for totems while new maps like Hawkins were created with totems in mind so it was easier to find good spots. I haven't been to the reworked Lery's so I am assuming the new totem spawns are amazing and fun, if not then my previous statement is false.
If all possible totem spots were covered with leaves or boxes and then Survivors had to move that object to find if a totem is there or not then it would take longer because
1---they're wasting their time interacting with a fake spot
2---the amount of fake spots is the strength and outweighs the obvious locations which BHVR can't get away from so this is a win for them 100%
I'm not saying Ruin shouldn't be a Hex totem but I am saying that no matter what the Devs say, totems are inherently flawed because of their inability to put them in spots that aren't super obvious and in direct line of sight of spawns and near Gens.
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Interesting thoughts all around! I've put some of the ideias i though were interesting in the original post. i hope you don't mind. that way they won't get lost.
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