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Devs: you need to address the real reason people use Ruin
Comments
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Its literally impossible as a killer or someone who watches killer mains to determine who is a solo survivor or not. You might have some indications. But it's not right 100% of the time.
That's a piss poor reason to explain why Otz does good as killer. In my opinion, if you cant do good without it you don't deserve to be put in the same level of high ranks.
As I told someone else before, there are games where Otz will absolutely dominate, as well as games where is absolutely crushed. This is okay. It happens
I like Otz because he deserves the level he's at. Not because he slugs, because to be honest, slugging is very situational and cant sometimes not be good for a killer at all. Otz has a very good understanding of the game and how it works, and doesn't rely on silly crutch perks like Ruin anyway.
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Its weird you would come into a thread asking for Devs to address something but you ignore the OP and post in the thread anyway
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Show a rank 20 getting red ranked survivors
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They aren't going to. People actually believe this game is relatively balanced.
Spoiler: It's not.
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it's also very frustrating that I find myself with boosted reds. If people would stop farming with killers, wed prob be better paired in that sense. could have a full room of the same rank and still have boosted potatoes. Annoying.
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I've actually had this happen alot. I think it's when its swf, the high rank survivor with his low rank "friend". it's like a tag along type deal. Hes here because I'm here. that sort of situation.
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Then remove that aspect it litterly works with no perks beside that anyways so where's the problem?
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That was before the matchmaking changes though.
I forget what the margin is but it's based off the highest ranked survivor when queuing. I have never seen a rank 1 survivor against a rank 20 killer after the patch.
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But why aren't survivors being ranked by their skill then? Shouldn't they also get their crutches get kicked away so that they can go into a rank they'd feel more comfortable in? Or is it just because the Ranking is actually completely obselete and the matchmaking is screwed? When I play rank 3 Killer I get matched with rank 6 and 8 and they rarely have a fair fight I really don't see the point in a ranking system that doesn't fully work and then trying to balance around it
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That would be a good point if killers got matched with survivors their own rank
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you are being disrespectful to OP, by not answering in topic (that is: address why ruin is used in 80% of the games), disrespectful to @Rivyn by basically replying to him with an edulcorated "git gud", and disrespectful to everyone of us who knows how current matchmaking actually works.
Very polite, though.
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Yeah i know you didn't mention it. But you stated something in response to somebody talking about it.
There is a reason for it and why people do it. Tunneling is simply the killer doing the objective due to the fact that killers are against a ticking clock and have to snowball. If BHVR would actually reduce stresslevels for killers and get rid of the pressure they would probably get the game into a far more healthy experience for everybody.
Do you honestly think killers (aside from outliers who enjoy to facecamp with bubba) would stick around hooked people and tunnel if they knew they do not have the feeling that it is necessary and also being the most efficient way to apply more pressure?
Also the hex ruin nerf does not really change much for the top tier killers, the weak killers on the roster are gonna suffer the most for it.
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I disagree. Him comparing noed and ruin lol. its completely different than using ruin. Ruin is to slow down the game right? Noed isnt. Noed is endgame, I allow the survivors to do their thing and at the end of my totem isnt broken it could be to my advantage. I still have a great time I alot of fun allowing the survivors to go agaisnt me without using ruin, being active and I dont hve to sit around and rely on a ruin to slow down the game without little effort than as a killer that doesnt use ruin and gain, having to be more active AS A KILLER. (Not being a potato killer). take it how you want it. I wasnt being disrespectful. But you'll and anyone will take it how you want to. Learn to play the game without ruin, you might like it and be more active in the game.
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They changed the matchmaking before the Christmas Holidays to make it easier for Survivors to find games actually.
They acknowledged that matchmaking wasn't working right and that they would be looking at it in January when they returned but would be making matchmaking more open (I can't remember the exact word they used) while they were away on holiday.
It was during the Q&A before the break.
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I honestly do yes as not one change has stopped it so far. Why would any others be different? this community has a bad habbit of playing just to annoy the other side. I dont see that ever changing.
Right now people tunnel, Camp and slug at 5 gens within all ranks. They have the pressure already yet but they do it. Some players will always just want to kill as fast as possible and pipping is not a requirement for them.
To change this you have to change a mindset not just a mechanic.
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Oh so it is entirely possible now.
Ok fair point. Thanks for the info!
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I think you quoted the wrong person, I don't know what you are talking about.
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How can you even say that when I keep facing red ranks survivors on console again & again? I'm rank 9, I don't want rank 2 people against me. I'd rather wait longer than facing veteran players. I want to learn this game, not being stomped & abused.
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I did. lol sorry about that.
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The devs have nerfed Things like flashlights, insta heals, and brand new parts if you want to compare something powerful that survivors have had that is on the same level as ruin. However Ruin affects the MAIN issue which is and always has been gen repair speed which is why its strong. The new Ruin does not help against gen rushers or just an optimal team and nothing has been done about gen speeds. Survivors had items that were literally game breaking meanwhile ruin either is destroyed quickly or it slows down gen speed for 2 minutes and against people who can hit the ruin skill check it only only slows them down slightly. IF anything it will makes games less fun because there will be less time spent in matches due to quick gen speeds.
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i can't believe you actually said that. You guys have demonstrated a cosmic level of ineptitude thus-far, at measuring the skill of the people who play your game.
The game is hopeless.
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That still begs the question as it only seems to be the main issue for some while others do well or even better than those without it.
Is it then too powerful and just artificially puts one at a rank they wouldn't normally be at compounding an issue they aren't capable of dealing with? So if person needed ruin to get to red ranks do you feel they actually belong there?
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whenever I watch otz win all I see is braindead survivors getting mindgamed at the simplest loops and failing to create any pressure on gens even if they do well on loops, as he tries to come up with little explanations as to what he is doing and why and then everyone thinks he is good. you don't have to be good to make simple decisions, this game is just like remembering the alphabet as a little kid. whenever I watch otz lose most of the time all I see is an average case of good swf team vs killer. they can actually be in a chase for more than 20 seconds and gens pop left and right and otz decision to use crappy perks like im all ears backfires as he has no crutch free kill perks which is pretty much required against a good team to stand a chance.
this game isn't balanced at all, there is no chance for having any ACTUAL competitive scene for this game atm and this was proven with that one tournament they had. yes otz is an experienced killer, yes he knows a lot, like a lot of killer mains, so its easy to destroy unexperienced players or maybe even take down a team consisting of some experienced but uncoordinated solos (this is why most people hate playing solo because its so hard). the ranking system is so easy to rank up its basically just matching you with random players regardless of experience. the only thing rank drastically changes is the que times. otz can only really get dominated when its a team with experience and coordination. not randoms doing whatever they want and playing the game for fun, that's what you see when he does good. all of his explanations for his choices are gone when it comes to a experienced coordinated team, there is nothing he can do because his loadouts and killers are geared towards fighting unexperienced players. which is fine though this game is supposed to be more casual
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Can you explain how ranking system works? because it's very easy to raise your rank. There are people with 100 hours in red rank, and they don't know how to run and look back at the same time 🙄
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Because no change actually fixed core issues and were just bandaids? Like you know ruin for example.
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So basically, what you're trying to say is:
Play only high-rank killers. If you can't win games with low-rank killers and stay in red ranks then it's the player's problem, you should stay in purple ranks, and the decreased performance with low-ranking killers has nothing to do with the proposed changes to ruin.
Am I translating this correctly?
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To slow gen speeds in high rank? YES
your skill level does NOT matter when faced with a optimal swf team that spread out, do the right gens, and last long in chases(+40 sec in a chase). A good killer cannot put pressure onto all 4 of the survivors like this and will have to give up chases and pressure to keep the gens that are close to each other and even then the team can get those gens done with coordination. I have had games without ruin end in 4 minutes even tho I was always chasing survivors of gens and got a decent amount of hooks. The depip squad is the best example on why this is realistic since there has not been any changes to the game that will affect how fast gens get done since it was preformed. If we are going to talk about high rank than SWF has to be considered since its used the most at high rank.
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Firstly, I don't recall those survivor changes making the perk useless, because it can't be used after a minute or two of starting the game. Ruin was always a risk vs reward perk. When the totem is found early it becomes a wasted perk slot. Now, they claim it's a late game perk, which is ridiculous when the totems don't make it to late game. It might be fine if they removed it as a hex and just made it a normal perk.
Btw, some of the survivor nerfs were also a bandaid fix that addressed the symptoms rather than the underlying problems. Some perks or abilities are clearly over/under powered all on their own. Others are under/over powered to to underlying conditions. Too many of the changes they make are based on the later. They need to address the underlying problems instead of buffing/nerfing individual perks.
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No, that's not it. I am talking four separate solo survivors all red ranks, and the killer is 12 or higher. That is more than 6 rank difference, when I get games like this I feel bad the killer barely manages 1-2 hooks and never gets any kills.
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Instead of fixing the rank system, they want to make it more difficult to play as killers to lower them, and to mix even more those who play well with those who do not play so well.
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Happens all the time. I've had It happen several time In my red ranked killer games and I've had It happen in my survivor games where I'm also in red ranks.
Happens a lot.
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And it sucks at doing so. Plz tell the balance makers to listen to killers before we have all leave. The bias is insane
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ah gotcha. in that case I think its probably because theres more survivors than killers and we get what's available. sadly.
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The fact that the only dev responses on this post ignore the topic completely shows their priorities. Please don't attack the developers, I think they just need to realize the impression they are currently giving off.
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NOED and (old) Ruin are opposite sides of the same coin. Ruin forced survivors to not focus solely on gens, or if they did, significantly slows them down. Ruin allowed survivors to only do gens, but punished them harshly for it. They both dealt with the problem of gen speed, but in different ways.
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noed has nothing to do with gen speed. what are you talking about. and I'm not comparing the two someone else is. they are completely different. I dont slow down survivors, survivors gen speed , at all with noed.
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Its yo job to be that guy lol. But I would assume the majority of players myself included play on console, so all we got is the patch notes and watching youtubers, not that people should be jumping the gun either way but it does say that in the patch notes
I dont even care about the ranks not showing up tbh but im just saying the majority of people cant try it out....but hey I would love to participate. Microsoft honestly seem like they would be down at this point, I think a few games already have it
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i just played 3 games as a rank 10 killer (last one was rank 9) and all of them were against red ranks. the first 2 had 1 green rank player sprankled in, the last one was 4 rank 2 players.
Not seeing the most extreme ends of the spectrum paired against doesnt make that matchmaking ok.
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NOED gives you a big boost if there is at least one totem left when all gens are popped. Therefore, the only way to counter NOED before gens are done is to cleanse all the totems. Survivors looking for and cleansing totems are survivors who aren't doing gens.
NOED does not directly affect gen speed. What it does do is force survivors to decide if they want to risk NOED but get out faster or take the time to do totems. NOED doesn't slow down survivors, it's very existence makes it a risk for survivors not to slow themselves down.
And maybe you weren't comparing Ruin and NOED, but I am :-)
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Imagine commenting in a forum post directed at you but not addressing the OP's complaints.
Nice.
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Post edited by tortrader on0
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But are part of those core issues the strats killers also use?
You fix gen speed and slow the game down but then how do they fix those others?
Then what becomes of those that do well but still have a challenge? Does it become too easy for them? It's not a simple as make it so everyone can do well.
Of course a skill level shows in high ranks otherwise those that are there without ruin would not be. If one needs a certain perk then its more about what the perk does for you than your own skill.
So you think no game should be lost ever?
The depip squad was an old test of what can be done but not what is and many changes were made to the game since then. The average game time at red ranks was 12m long after that but for some its always 4m every game.
Should they change its impossible for a killer to 4k in under 3mins as that also happens.
Self care is a meme at this point. MoM is rarely seen. I don't see how they weren't major changes to the perks even if still useful.
I don't like the ruin change personally as I don't feel its worth a slot but I never used it anyway. I do however see the reasoning for a change. If a perk works only versus bad players then what does it really do for the game?
How do they objectively look at stats on balancing when one perk makes them look more in one sides favour?
Meta perks are meta for a reason. Not becasue they fix issues but they make players feel stronger or better than they may be.
It's a common issue with lots of PvP games and why anything meta needs eventually looked at as to why its used and this is what has been happening over the last year.
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sure he does
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To some degree probably however those strategies / tactics would not have seen the light of day if not given the problem.
How often do you get camped by a billy? After they down someone in 99% they are off to the next one. Coincedence? I doubt it.
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You didn't listen there have Not been any changes to gen speeds or the basics of a chase, for that reason that test is still relative despite being a long time ago. Also I don't think I should win every game but the way this game is built does not support 4 minute games when every player is playing optimally. As for the killer finishing games early that mainly happens because the survivors screw up badly and rarely is it because the killer actually out plays them all.
And if you want to try to phrase my words in a way that sounds like I think that the killer should always win than I can play that too cause it seems to me that you think 4 minute games are healthy for this game and all games should be based on that time frame. In other words the killer should be able to kill all survivors in that time frame even when the survivors dont make major mistakes. consistently.
so actually argue your points instead of trying that bs phrasing non sense and consider the other sides point instead of brushing it off.
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People used ruin to help slow the game down. I just got a game off the PTB where literally 4 gens went flying. Did I still win? Yes because the survivors put themselves into a 3 gen situation. Imagine having a game where the survivors DIDN'T 3 gen themselves. I'm sorry, but the problem wasn't ruin (not entirely) the problem is that survivors can do gens too quickly.
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Meta perks are meta for a reason, true. But it's definitely not because it makes you feel stronger than you are. It means they work best for the current situation. Ruin is meta because it attempts to combat the underlying issue that gens can be completed far to quickly. And it is currently balanced by the fact that the totem can be destroyed, completely nullifying the perk. Self care may be slower, but at least you can use it throughout the whole match, and there are ways to speed it up.
It's funny that it is ok to use toolboxes to speed up working on gens, but using a perk that slows them down is bad. Especially when that perk can be lost within seconds of the match starting.
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Yea im not into survivors solely looking for totems. that is a waste of time and slows down progress. That's an inefficient way of playing. I do gens and come across them as I go and then dismantle. If gens are done and I know I've only gotten 3 totems, I'll go looking for then at endgame. I never see a need in going straight to the door. Its much more fun to see the killer in distress wondering where the survivor is. all in all type of game playing style is different than others, I go in to have fun, I do gens, I help other survivors, and when I open the door I dont leave until I know I can help another survivor out, if he cant be helped I go. but I will die helping if I can and I'm ok with that. I had fun doing it. it's no fun leaving helpless survivors behind.. it's not about how fast I can get out. it's about how much fun I'm having. I wish players learned more to have fun rather than racing against time. in the end it's a game. have fun.
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I always laugh at these. Do you want to know how we win without ruin? We slug the first down, get a 2nd down and hook then you soft camp, far enough to encourage the unhook, not that far to get 2 free downs. Do you find that funny? No? Me neither, all you get is a bunch of insults for gettingf 4k and 30k BP while survs get at max 14k
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