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Real Problem is Player Knowledge
Currently a good chunk of people, killer and survivor, even in the high ranks dont know most concepts of the game they should. I face killers chasing a single guy for 3-4 gens, survivors getting downed seconds after taking their first hit etc. Sometimes I get killers camping and other survivors do nothing but wait for an opportunity to save, which never appears, and other times people just do gens so by the time the camped guy dies there is 1 gen left and the game is basically over.
My point is, the current tutorials that teach you how to left click with killer and hold left click with the survivor arent enough and thats the biggest reason on why Ruin gets a nerf, why there are red rank games that end with 5 gen left, why there are campers etc.
My suggestion is of course a tutorial expansion or change which includes information on chases, how fast vaults work, how bloodlust works or even just how you get a speed boost after getting hit. But more importantly a couple guides teaching new killers and survivors some basic tactics to start off with like going for people on the gens instead of people running around or basic looping.
Games like Clash of Clans teach basic strategies by linking to useful Youtube videos ingame, something that could be done.
Also I know there is a text guide that covers some of these stuff, but most people I know havent even read them and they arent enough on their own.
What are you opinions on this, am I just over exaggerating it?
Comments
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real problem is ranking system and pipping
new players are ranking up too fast, its way too easy to rank up (especially as surv) because long time ago there was much more killers at red ranks than survs, so they kept making pipping as surv easier and easier (and swf change killed red rank lobbies with that too)
100h surv in red rank isnt as uncommon these days, and rank reset nerf is last nail in the coffin
tutorials need rework but i guess devs cant make AI that would've helped
i like how killers are crying "they are boolied" but when baby survivor is dying in 10sec its normal :)
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Ranking and matchmaking, and not having enough people to make said things stricter/tighter are the biggest issues. If I went against people my skill level it probably wouldn't be so bad.
I mean they may as well just auto skip you from rank 8 to 2 as a killer atm, because you only get red rank survivors, all it excludes is rank 1 for you.
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the problem is playing survivor is way too forgiving both gameplay wise and rankwise, wich leads to red ranks survivors being pretty bad.
this then leads to below average killer players ranking up, because people literally run into them.
im currently rank 8 killer with 56hours played (and like 10 afking on the menu) and most of my matches are garbage. when im up against solo survivors i kill them all before they do 2 or 3 gens. usually only one of the four survivors knows how to properly loop and the rest just run into me or make dumb mystakes.
the problem is, the rest of the matches im facing SWF and i lose at least 2 or 3 generators before i can even hook someone. and its not that im bad at chasing, its just the fact that by the time i find someone its probably been 15-30 seconds. and the first gen is gone in 25. so not much i could do there. by the time im done chasing the first surv. if im lucky its been a minute and i only lost 2.
and the worst games i had is when i kill 1 survivor, and he disconnects before i can hook them. then when i kill the second survivor, he instadies in the hook denying me a lot of points. wich then forces me to spend 15 minutes, toying with the last 2, because otherwise i black pip FOR NO ######### REASON. literally. why the ######### are survivors able to instadie on hook, and force me to black pip by doing that? uh? thats the biggest bullshit i have ever seen.
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Not exactly true about ranking. Ranking works in the skill range of the playerbase. If everyone is unskilled, the red ranks will be too. If everyone was very skilled, we would still have green ranks and lower. There are a lot of not so great survivors in red ranks because there are not so great killers too. If more killers were better at the game, worse survivors would drop down in ranks and vice versa.
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that is true that bad killers are boosting bad survs, and bad survs are boosting bad killers
and thats rank system fault
but most of the time killers are boosted by perks like ruin and noed (well now braindead ruin is dead) and survs are boosted because of SWF AND because when they do 1 gen, do 1 safe unhook and heal, dont die in 10sec (or wont be found too fast) they will rank up at least to purple ranks
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This is the result of this problem in my opinion. The game cant be balanced around good survivors and SWF because of the mass amount of survivors who are the reverse. Teach everyone how to play well, then balance around that and then the game would feel less frustrating since more people can rely on skill instead of constant getaway perks.
Btw I play both roles with survivor being more often, so Im not biased in either sides, at least I hope.
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I do agree with expanding the tutorials but how many new player would take the time to use them
Even I'd BP were involved still not enough
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its not that killers are bad. is just that as killer, there is so much bs in the game that you can do nothing about. why is it that survivors can complete 1/5 of their main objective before you even get to do anything? like literally nothing you could do about it besides taking ruin which is now gone. and thats just one of the many many many issues the game has.
the main problem is, that on top of killer role being harder to play by nature. there is a lot of stuff that has literally no counterplay.
i know survivors have to deal with bullshit too. like tunneling, camping, broken hitboxes and what not. but if killer role was actually playable. the ammount of bullshit survivors have to go through would also be a lot less.
like for example. if people disconnect from your game, or literally get themselves killed too fast. it forces you as a killer to automatically BLACK PIP. like. #########. if they loose too fast you automatically loose. what kind of bullshit is that?
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I dont find ranking up as easy.
For a long while I would gain three pips then lose them all in consecutive matches over and over. The only reason I swf now is that I get better squads to play with.
Since the game removed ranks in the lobby, I have no idea of the quality of the team I will be in. Sure I can control that by only playing 4x1s premades, but I have found in the matches where I have done so, since not everyone is on voice it makes it impossible to co-ordinate, not everyone feels happy using voice in this game.
I would suggest completing one gen one safe unhook and not dying in ten seconds is not going to be enough to pip you up, unless you are playing a different version of DBD, in which case I would like to know where I can get a hold of it.
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Yeah ranking system is currently in a bad shape. My topic wouldnt change it properly but I believe it would benefit ranking aswell as making the game less frustrating overall.
I mean, 20k bloodpoints was more than enough to make me do the tutorials. They could improve the old one or like I said just link to youtube videos. If they decided to actually improve tutorials, I would say making people play would be the lesser of the problems.
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not dying in 10 seconds means you actually have to survive 15 to 30 seconds of chase wich is still really really easy.
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OK point taken.
Its a very difficult job balancing a game when the same trial will be played by someone who got the game for Christmas last week and someone who has been playing since 2016.
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15 seconds chases can be done by just running in a single direction after getting hit, which isnt at all enough in red ranks but I still see many red ranks die in shorter amount of times after the first hit.
Yes!
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no its not. balancing the game is easy. you just have to ignore the whiny rank 15s who cant get good at the game.
look at a game like league of legends. wich is 1000 times more complex than dbd. a game that has skilllevels range from iron 4 (people who are physically/mentaly handicapped or have bad a bad pc/internet) to challenger players (literal prodigys/people who are 1 of a kind/ drug abusers)
now, how is it that a game like that can be balanced and a simple game like dbd cant? easy...
its because devs keep listening to shi1ty players who cant even do skillchecks.
if you are not good at the game, you dont have the right to an opinion when it comes to balance, it is a simple as that. if you think something is too hard just get good. there is no other way to put it. because what devs do by balancing the game aroudn noobs. is making it so everyone who is not bad becomes overpowered, or loses all possible skill expression leading to them losing the game no matter how good they are.
just look at youtubers/streamers who are really good at the game. like literall professionals, yet they still lose a lot of games, just because the ammount of bs killers have to go through is unbearable. because in the end, if you get tunneled as a survivor, you at least could have counterplayed that by not getting hit. wich even tho it could be hard. you can at least do it if you are good enough. on the other hand. if as a killer you lose 5 gens by the time you hooked someone once. what are you supposed to do?
you just lose and thats it. at least you have a chance to facecamp so you keep 1 kill as a consolation price. really nice huh...
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the problem is not that killers are bad. the BIG problem is that killers have to go through a lot of bs to even play the game.
playing killer is harder by nature. but thats not the only issue. the problem is the game is rigged in survivors favour in many aspects.
why is it possible for survivors to do 1/5 of their main objective in less than 30 seconds without letting the killer player do anything? like, by the time the killer reaches the gen, its already done, literally 0 possible counterplay.
also, did you know, that by disconnecting or by simply dying too fast, survivors can force a killer into a black pip? like, ######### is that bs. today i had a game at rank 8 (so not even that high) where i killed 1 survivor, he disconnected, then i killed another survivor, instadied on hook. killed another survivor, instadied on hook to give the last one the hatch. and boom. i automatically got a black pip in 3-4 minutes, just because i killed 3 people "too fast" because they unironically killed themselves. now, WHY is it even allowed for survivors to do this?
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The mere fact that ANY survivor, I don't care if it's noob3 himself, can run a killer for 3-4 gens tells you how screwed to hell this game really is. That shouldn't be possible and is unacceptable.
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Well we are mostly talking about the same problem, the game is being balanced around the worse players. The reason behind that is because those people are the vast majority. Yes, a good ranking is needed but it wouldnt fix much if the game is still being balanced towards experienced killers facing bad survivors. Teaching people is my suggestion towards this but I definetly agree that ranks need fixing too.
I dont agree with that survivor statement though. "Not getting hit" is not a counter play, its the result. How are you not gonna get hit if the killer is tunneling you? That would be the counter play. Right now we get DS, DH etc used a lot because having all the pallets around being used by inexperienced teammates is pretty common.
Well gen speeds do need balancing but if the whole team is on a gen and the killer took 30sec to find that gen, then thats the killer not in a chase for 30 sec and only 1 gen being popped with the killer learning where everyone is. Would be much worse if everyone was in a different gen.
Agreed on the ranking problem, ranks need fixing aswell but my suggestion is aside from that.
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That is if you have no gen pressure. The gens are currently survivor favoured but if you just tunnel one person all game, you are at fault for not having any pressure.
If all 4 survivors are perfect at looping, then the game does become near impossible for the killer. Result of the game being balanced around less skilled people.
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Ding ding ding, we have a Wraith in the house. Under no circumstances should this game be impossible for killer, but it is. By balancing around the fun of inexperienced idiots, you're handing a loaded gun to experienced bullies, which makes the game as fun as a colonoscopy if you're killer.
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yeah, most games it takes you on average 30 seconds to find the survivors when you spawn. and the first gen usually pops before you even SEE a survivor for the first time if they know what they are doing.
it doesnt matter if the gen pops and lets the killer know where everyone is, because survivors just start running and hiding so by the time the killer gets there they are already gone. forcing you to chase whoever you find first. and ofc while chasing that person usually the second gen pops.
it doesnt matter if bad players are the majority. they just gotta get good, no matter how many of them are there. if devs keep balancing the game based on bad players. it will always get boring or frustrating really quickly.
i dont really give an f about the ranking system. i just want good players be able to win, if they are better. wich right now is not happening, you can watch pros like otz and truetalent, loose many games just because the game is too survivor sided.
you just need to listen to any good player, and the first thing they will say is that games are too short, and often leave the killer no counterplay and thats not fun for anyone. besides maybe noobs who want to feel good by getting a red rank easily.
you wonder how can you avoid getting hit? there is something called looping and something called pallets as well as something called jukes.
to prevent a killer from tunneling, simply dont get hit in the first place. avoid getting hit even once. and you win. i know it can be really hard, but it is still doable specially against bad killers.
and you can just take a look on youtube where you can see players like noob3 doing it consistently
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Yes, exactly my point. The reason is because the inexperienced people are the majority. If more people become knowledgeable then the devs can balance around the experienced players.
You are suggesting me to learn how to loop and Im suggesting to teach that to everyone.
The game cant be balanced around experienced people if those people are minority. Get more peoples to loop like Noob3, Monto, Tru3 etc then we can balance killers against a SWF with 4 Noob3. A better tutorial would be a good start for this.
And I did tell you, pallets arent an enough counter play to tunneling if you are the only one who knows how to loop in your team. In a group with pallet campers, most of them will be used by the time you get chased.
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if you balance the game around skilled players. being minority or not doesnt matter. because all players will then become more skilled.
the game MUST be balanced around that minority, to eventually push the rest of the players into the same category if they get good enough.
one big problem is that the game has a lot of casual players, so imo there should be a separated mode for casual players and competitive players. have 2 gamemodes, one casual for people to learn how to play or just have fun casually and one ranked for those who like to tryhard and do good everygame. and things will work just fine, like they do on most other games (to an extent)
if queues ever become too long, they can just fix it with special rewards and stuff like all other games do. the playerbase isnt even that small to begin with,
btw im not spefically refering to you when i say people should learn to loop and stuff. since i dont even know what level of skill do you have, im just talking in general.
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A casual mode sounds like it would work well. I usually dont like that idea because of the already long queue times but your argument sounds good. To be honest, every single reply I got in this post is about the Ranking system so either a new mode or a ranking change seems to be what everyone wants right now.
Im still up for a better tutorial though, I dont think having to google to learn stuff like Exposed meaning you get one shot is good for anyone at all. That and all the other stuff I said in the post.
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It is way to easy to rank up as survivor... if you are struggling outside of swf to rank up you just need more practice.
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I dunno if id call league a "well balanced" game
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League of legends?! Are you seriously comparing a symetrical and competitive game balance to an assymetrical and non competitive game balance?!
Without a competitive ranking system is impossible to properly balance any game by the big amount of "corrupted" data. And being assymetrical makes it even more dificult! Then you are also comparing two companies with a very different financial situation! The financial part isn't the main issue since they could easily raise their player base by correcting the game but they can only do that by making it "competitive". Competitive not like LOL but by making a competitive ranking system were almost everyone would care about rank providing good data from wich they could start balancing the game.
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oh i agree it has thousands of issues, specially when it comes to high elo gameplay. but at least it is well balanced for low elos, and for proplay. wich is the only thing they care about really. mages being broken as shiet on every single lane for 2 seasons is pretty problematic, but at least the game is playable to an extent.
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this game being so much simpler than league of legends, makes it a lot easier to balance. the problem is that they dont want to, thats it. its not a financial problem. it is just the mere fact that they dont want the game to be balanced, all they do is cater to low rank survivors.
if were in charge of balancing this game, it would be perfectly balanced in 2 days.
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Why not have a ranked and a regular que? The regular que still has ranks, and pips, but you dont lose pips. When you hit rank 15 on the regs you may then enter the ranked que, but not before.
Some players being casual or just wanting to have fun would opt for the regs. Sure and it would be nice to allow rift quest in the proposed regs que as well
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