DS needs to be reworked once and for all
With the upcoming Ruin changes it's completely overdue that Decisive Strike will no longer be this annoying crutch that it is right now. I know it's supposed to be an "anti tunneling perk" and I dont mind if I get hit by hit because I immediately chased the unhooked person... but what I do mind hard is if I get hit by it because a survivor did some cocky stuff right in front of my face like repairing a generator a minute after he got unhooked already.
The changes this perk needs to turn it into a true anti tunnel perk are simple:
- activation timer from 60 seconds to UNLIMITED
- DS gets disabled immediately if the unhooked survivor 1) got fully healed, 2) touches a generator, 3) sabotages a hook, 4) cleanses a totem or 5) heals another survivor
This perk is not an anti tunneling perk atm. It's basically a "you are a god for 1 minute now. enjoy." perk
Comments
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+1
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Deactivation conditions are needed, yes.
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I don’t get why people think this is such a strong perk. I just assume they all have it and leave them slugged for a minute. No more DS.
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It doesn't need a rework. I would agree that 60 seconds is a bit too long though. I'd be in favor of reducing it to 45 seconds but refreshing if a survivor is downed during that 45 seconds to reduce slugging as a counter.
Edit: It should end if the survivor is healed to full as well. Obviously you weren't tunneled if you had time to heal.
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Good for you, time management is not needed as killer.
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I dunno. I think it’s safe to assume they’ve got it and wait the minute out. Plus side some idiot will come to heal them and you can knock them down too. Two birds.
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Or just dont tunnel
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I’m not too worried but I avoid red ranks too. Too many try hards to be fun. Survivor I do red but I won’t as killer. No upside.
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DS only needs a potential nerf for its use in the end game and locker grabbing. It is absolutely fine as it is because you can slug and get plenty of pressure from that as it is.
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Unbreakable? Because someone being slugged might still be map pressure, but it's also not a hook. Because it's literally a strong perk that isn't less strong because you can slug someone who might have it, when even if they don't have it you're effectively giving someone a 5th perk? Because it allows a survivor to be completely immune for 60 seconds? Because it's easily used in situations that aren't tunneling at all? Because you have to mentally remember who or who doesn't not have it?
I still think DH is more overpowered than DS either way, because you should not be able to tap a button and make it to a pallet when you screwed up and should be punished for it, but instead.. Dead Hard. Just like BT is ridiculous when you aren't punished for unhooking right in the killers face, but it's justified because "camping killers" which is fair, but also only punishes good killers for not being scumbags.
Take a look at all these meta survivor perks that are all used and unfun at red ranks that don't get touched, but evidently since potato survivors who can't handle Ruin can't use said meta perks effectively, well, those second chance survivor perks are perfectly balanced, since this game isn't balanced around non-potatoes.
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And yet you explain how they should deal with it while you avoid the ranks.
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Yes but it’s funny so I can’t resist. They were so excited about their ds, but nope. Not happening. Keep in mind I don’t care much about ranking up and like to mess around (as Killer). As survivor I play to win more.
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You’re right. This whole forum is full of the smartest, whiniest people I’ve ever seen. No wonder this games going to #########. Nothing anyone says is “right” and everyone just argues. Smh I’ve never seen anything like it. I’m outta here have fun being losers who fight over a ######### video game.
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Wait, you're contradicting yourself.
You're talking about Survivors being cocky and doing generators in front of you a minute after being unhooked... When DS lasts only 50 seconds max.
Idk man I think you should study what the perk is for and how it's application is before you make a nerf it post.
Also, comparing a nerf to this to the Ruin nerf is not a good argument. They are entirely 2 different perks with purposes that do not overlap with each other. Additionally, DS is the the best anti tunnel option a survivor has. Tunneling and camping is very common in this game, it happens about the same rate as Killers ran Ruin in a game.
Either go chase someone else or eat the DS so you dont have to worry about it later.
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Where are the survivor nerfs after the huge killer nerfs?
Balanced landing nerf came along with huge borrowed time buff.
When were survivors last nerfed? Where is the balance? DS needs to be changed. Or buff unnerving Presence to counter it.
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DS lasts 60 seconds.
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Oh right Tier 3.
Still... his words "after a minute" lol
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I play both sides, both rank 1.
While I agree it's frustrating to get DSed, think about it this way:
You as the killer, no matter how good or bad you're playing, are gonna be in the game until it ends. You also have the power to end a survivor's fun by keep camping and tunneling them until they die in the first 2-3 minutes of the game.
that person also wants to have fun, also wants to play the game as long as possible, and not to die with 5 gens still remaining.
Especially with these weird queues, it finds killer games instantly but survivor games take forever to be found.
What needs to be changed is not DS. It's the core of the game, Killers should not be able to camp and tunnel and also THEY SHOULDN'T NEED TO. instead there should be mechanics that prevent gen rushing like for example, every time a gen is done, all other gens are blocked for a specific amount of time, killers should be able to pip much easier. if a survivor can die and still pip, hell... they can die and still double pip, killers should be able to pip as well when they don't get any kills.
these are just my opinions, don't attack me please if you don't agree with me.
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DS doesn't bother me. I just slug and find someone else (as I usually do anyway if I find the unhooked guy).
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People are not comparing it to ruin in the way that you think, devs nerfed ruin because it was "annoying" to go against so practically they are saying DS is annoying to go against when you get hit with it without tunneling you get hit with it because the survivor makes a dumb play.
Do you want to know what else is annoying? Getting hit with DS because survivors with it repair gens in your face and then hop into a locker. Eating the DS isn't a counter and wastes time which is crucial to killer.
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So counter this play then? You're not exactly forced to make the decision to grab a survivor with DS out of a locker. If you can't slug him to the ground before he makes it there just eat the DS, it will waste more of your time for you to stand in front of the locker and wait.
My opinion on it, eat the DS, and do not get baited into a chase, that's playing how the survivor wants you to play. Catch him doing a Gen later and he doesnt have DS.
I personally try to eat DS as early as possible into the game to avoid clutch plays later game.
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But that's the problem though, right? Eating DS isn't countering DS and it's punishing the killer for the bad plays they made. Don't get me wrong we need an anti-tunnel perk and DS is perfect only if they added deactivation requirements.
Honestly if we need to eat DS to counter it, please please please bring the old DS back. I'd rather eat it at the start of the match with a reduced stun time due to Enduring.
"You are not forced to grab a survivor out of the locker"
I'm sorry but you're saying they deserve to repair the gen in your face and the killer needs to leave so they can hop back onto the gen or they need to be punished by eating the stun? Not really fair at all.
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It's a worse play to stand at the locker and wait.
If they go back to the gen just smack them and pick them up.
Honestly I guess it depends on the killer too. If you're playing Billy just eat the DS and chainsaw somewhere else.
Or if you're playing Nurse just blink to the survivor and smack them. The Stun is irrelevant for killers like them. Hell even Huntress wouldn't be affected much because she has hatchets she can throw. Though it's a LOS ability.
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First of all I'd like to thank you for having an actual discussion without using the "you're x main". I really appreciate it and wish more people were like you.
Back onto the topic though, yes it is very dependable on the killer. If the killer has a chase power then eating the DS is not a big deal but a killer that has not much going for them in a chase will be hurt badly. It's somewhat map dependent too with tiles because maps like Wretched Shop is awful to go against and with DS being a 5 second stun you more than likely will have enough time to reach the broken structure which will waste more time.
An issue I have with smacking them if they go back to the gen is it will be a cat and mouse game. I chase them off and they hop into a locker so I move away, they jump out and run back to the gen so I go back to pressure them off the gen but then they just run back to the locker. It's still an issue and you need to eat the stun to deactivate it which isn't a valid counter.
I'm not going to say DS should be deactivated if another survivor is hooked but it should be deactivated if:
1) Survivors interact with gens: This is because if they interact with gen which is their objective, they cannot complain about tunneling because the killer is supposed to stop them. If they interact with a gen they are making themselves a high priority target.
2) Perform an unhook: If they perform an unhook they cannot complain about being tunneled because they made themselves a high priority target and it's not typically fair if the killer could be hit with DS against the rescued survivor and the unhooker.
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I liked the old DS you could drible the survivors instead of leaving them on ground... and bunch other reasons...
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Thank you, it's nice to find like minded people who can have conversations with each other devout of salt.
I honestly think a lot of people have overreacted, and my own experience + what I have been seeing from streamers seems to pretty much serve as proof that it isn't terrible.
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I like the concept of the new ruin but the execution of it was poor. I know it might not be the devs intentions but their post did seem really biased but that's just the wording. Deep down I know they never intended to come off like that.
Secondly this change was completely out of the blue and took people by surprise. It's not common to find posts saying how overpowered ruin was and it wasn't a necessary nerf when other perks are complained about a whole lot more.
A good time to change ruin is when more maps are reworked because to be honest gen times are not an issue it's the design of some of the maps and once that is fixed no more bloodlust, ruin can be changed and perhaps bamboozle could be slightly tweaked because it wouldn't be a band-aid anymore.
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Ruin got buffed then nerfed.
DS was already nerfed into the ground.
Grow up.
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Yes, I believe it was @ScottJund that said this,
The Ruin change was not bad but it was introduced a bit early. It could have probably better suited a huge map rework update and a change to the map rng.
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That's what I mean. I could understand if there was no timer. But it's 1 minute and you have to hit the skill check for it to work.
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I should watch Scott's vid about this all I've seen is Paulie's (if that is how you spell it), King's, Space and ardetha's opinions on it. Personally I've tried it but couldn't get results to if it really did help you to keep up pressure because it either got cleansed too quickly or survivors DCed which skewed my personal data.
Queue times can be a nightmare too so I don't typically spend too long on the PTB
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you know someone never plays killer if he actually thinks ds is fine how it is atm smh
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I wrote a full review on the update and as well as included all the perks I used here @BrendanLeeT
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A bathtub full of killer mains tears from yesterday. Guys relax. It's a game. U r not real killers. After ruin change, all killers are: Nerf adrenaline, nerf DH, DS, BT. Do something for us the killers!! Bad image.
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"1min god" ... again someone misjudging DS.
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What are you talking about?
If you are repairing gens or unhooking other survivors then you aren't being tunneled. Survivors shouldn't get protection for that.
DS is supposed to prevent the killer from immediately coming back to the hook and re-hooking a survivor. DS gives you protection in order to get healed, but if you decide to do something else then you don't get the protection.
It's really simple.
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Anybody who thinks it still need a nerf is stupid. I play alot killer and it's not op. Also of ruin which is the ultimate crutch perk for killers just got buffed. Why does Ds a regular/slightly crutch per deserve a nerf. Especially such a big one like you suggested. It's not so bad to get stunned and if you see them being cocky. Don't pick them up. Just slug like a good boy. Use your brains. And if your were a decent killer you wouldn't say anything. I'm a rank 12 killer who plays against mostly rank 7-8s because of stupid matching and I win most of the time even when 2-3 have D's. If your not a terrible killer or supper ineficiant then D's isn't a very game changing perk.
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Hopefully you find that review to be helpful and enlightening. I'd like for people to notice it isn't entirely as bad as people have made it out to be
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You have no clue on the matter at all. Survivors you face are so bad that they do not make it into red ranks while it is ridiculous easy to get to rank 1 as survivor. This is a reason why for example solo q sucks so hard because you can get complete potatoes as teammates.
You didnt even make it to r1 and keep on babbling how people should relax and if they were any good, if you were any good you wouldnt be a rank 12 killer.
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Only number 1, it doesn't have to deactivate under all of those circumstances, it would just take you away from doing any actions at all, if you want to get a use out of DS.
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Also if you hook another survivor.
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What if the survivor is cleansing the totem for Inner Strength and you go right back to them?
What if the survivor taps too early and accidentally taps a gen instead of vaulting?
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DS should have no way to deactivate except time-out and the timer shouldn't go down while within the killer's terror radius and it shouldn't go down when in the dying state if activated.
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I almost missed your sarcasm at first... You got me 🤣🤣
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DS is not an anti tunnel perk.
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when I first started playing ds was infinite. it was fun.
I think survivors once the game starts should all be on the hook already and you shouldnt beable to unhook them. they should die immediately. and killer wins. this way killer is happy and doesnt complain anymore.
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If you got unhooked with only 1 gen left, let your teammates do everything then you are just a god all endgame
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First of all, this "eye for an eye"-mentality is pretty stupid.
Second, if we go for that, there would be at least 10 Killer Nerfs to compensate for the many Survivor Nerfs over the past months and years.
And third, this version of DS would be horrible. 100% free escape when Gates are powered, I guess THAT is what Killers really want. /s
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Just start all survivors on the hook. Killer wins and is happy. So much fun.
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