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SWFs are cheating on comms?
Comments
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It's not cheating. But it's definitely an unfair advantage
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I think playing in swf with coms could be seen as 'exploiting game mechanics for competitive advantage' just because it does give a massive advantage to those doing it and there's been little or nothing done to balance the game acknowledging that swf exist.
Shouldn't be bannable but it does give a clear and obvious advantage which solo queue players do not have. The answer has to be solo queue and swf to be at a similar level in terms of what information they can get. We've seen some changes but still isn't enough.
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Not every Nurse was omega. Not every Spirit was beaded. Yet those occasionally over preforming Killers got nerfed.
Not every SWF is a death squad, but SWF by itself is far more common and offers more of an advantage than near anything Killers had to counter it. It left SWF at still being too strong, but now Killers have no real counter to it anymore other than to use a Mori every single game.
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Of course... but I'm not sure what that has to do with cheating/gaining an advantage in the game?!?
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Ok as do I but again why are are the replies straying from the point, wouldnt you be able to do it far better on comms?
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Of course it is but your definition of cheating might be different than mine and others. It has been made available by BHVR for survivors but nothing has been added to hinder that God like perk or aid killers/solo survivors.
This is why it is OP and the game cannot be balanced as this isn't mentioned in any starts, nevermind no option or indication of you are playing SWF who after speaking with them should be considered to be on comms.
The point is that BHVR aren't addressing this balance, I'm not saying to remove it but to at least address it.
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Ok, bear in mind that I wrote just before the Ruin nerf was announced. If they nerfed the survivor meta perks, I would have nerfed Ruin to compensate.
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Oh the amount of time wasted playing with solo survivors, just had three of them run the entire map just to unhook then run back to their gens... or totems, chests.
SWF you simply say you guys do gens, I'll go save Feng... again
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So you want to balance the game based on swf? What about the solo survivors you know the majority of survivors
i think if you balance the game that way then all you will see is swf groups
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If it's against the rules of the game, it would be cheating. But it isn't.
League of Legends never had in game voice chat for the longest time, but always endorsed it and players were known to use Skype or Discord or whatever is in at the time. Nobody ever complained about it being cheating. It's simply taking an advantage that's allowed.
I also think it's pretty disingenuous to state that it "wasn't considered" or anything close to that, that comms would be used. Talking to friends while playing games has been a thing for years before this game even was conceived.
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If you are playing SWF the game should treat you as playing with comms.
If you are playing solo the game should treat you as such.
Using this you BHVR can decide to say reduce perk slots for SWF, add perk slots for solo/killer.
SWF shouldn't be hidden, how are you to know if you played well but with a 3 man swf or 4 solos?
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Though it isn't labeled cheating by BHVR, it sure a heck feels that way when you are playing Killer.
So yeah you can insult people but like it or not it is in fact using a third party software to gain a major advantage over the Killer.
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It is undeniably OP however not worth making a fuss about.
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Why, how do you know?
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I have seen this topic before, when it was still a grey area, but then in the middle of it, a DEV responded to the thread informing us that BHVR does not consider voice comms cheating.
Because if they did accept is as cheating, they would be forced to try and do something about it, and they cannot prove you are using comms.
The most they could do is level penalties to SWF, just in case they ARE using comms, but that'll never happen.
Unfortunately SWF is here to stay, and they refuse to give Killers any advance knowledge about facing a SWF, so we are just forced to play an uneven match.
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And what about the people who don't use coms and just want to party with their friends?
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That is very rare, and you know it.
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Voice comms is not cheating. "3rd party programs" means trainers, anything that will help you through changing scripts and values in the game files etc.
I always laugh when people say voice comms is cheating because it involves using a "3rd party program". If that is the case, is using steam voice chat cheating? Is using steam to launch the game cheating?
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I do, but it doesn't matter how rare it is when we're talking about a universal handicap.
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A universal handicap, would still be justified, because you are removing the DREADED playing with unknown players. A solid SWF group always knows their buddies are going to pull down the heavens to save them, you can be confident that they know how to play.
SWF even without comms, affords a leg up on just regular players.
So to me the handicap would still be valid. And to them I say if you are going to be punished anyways, then why not use comms? Discord is free and really good.
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Some people feel uncomfortable with voice chat, even with their friends, or don't have the hardware to support it. There are practical reasons why some people choose not to use it.
And I would disagree that SWF is always an advantage without coms. The fact that people are more likely to go out of their way to save their friends is both a weakness and a strength. People do stupid things for and with their friends. I have seen so many games with a camping killer against SWF that should have been a 1K at best turn into a 4K because people care about their friends' survival and don't want to let them die the way they would a random stranger. Not to mention the fact that SWF are very often of much more mixed ranks than solo groups which, since the SWF matchmaking changes, is a definite advantage for the killer.
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At some point there is a cost to having a special mode of play. Here SWF would have a cost. You can't act like you are not having a special situation, when the norm would be all playing solo.
So if there was a penalty for playing SWF, that is something you would just have to eal with. There is no such penalty but if one came , it would be warranted.
If you have a cell phone then you have the equipment needed for discord.
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Couldn't stop it if you wanted to.
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It can completely render a killers power irrelevant, such as Trapper.
If one person knows where a trap is, the entire team does. If one person knows where Ruin is, the entire team does. Etc, etc.
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If Survivors are SWF's with 4 TOOLBOXES, DH and DS then just camp. 90% of the time they'll go to save they're buddy. Aim for grabs and keep using the one hook. Games won basically after that point.
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He is saying "using a third party program is, technically, cheating but because the Dev team explicitly said it was allowed then isn't cheating" so "dev-approved cheating" is just shorting the explanation.
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Swf using comms is 60% of what breaks the game, if they blocked it from working somehow during matches there'd be a huge overnight improvement. Swf is basically a cheat and should be reported every time you think they're using voice chat
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But the truth is, technically, it's not cheating, for the reasons I explained in that comment. The fact that the dev team explicitly said it was allowed is precisely why it cannot be called cheating by definition of the word itself.
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Dev-approved cheating is not equal to cheating. Same as saying a really big loop like Ironworks of Misery is an infinite, you know it isn't but you call that just for shorten the deal.
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"Dev-approved cheating?" Give me a break. It's not cheating, full stop.
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Yes, let's call communications cheating and not a core advantage SWF has over Solo.
What killers need most is a huge maps rework. And a fix to the totem spawns
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Responding 5 days later, you, Mushwin, Cornpoppers and I play together on comms.
I think what we do just bullies each other more than the Killer.
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Old topic but one I'm so surprised BHVR haven't addressed
I agree because they can't know who is in comms in swf they can't enforce it so have to let it go.
Messaging most swf groups say they are to have fun but lose some of the disadvantages with that.
BHVR know who are grouped in SWF and could killers and other survivors know including buff perks, speed, etc to address.
I watched one stream where simply saying the killer tried to mind game allowed the next survivor who encountered them to expect it.
It would be interesting as to how SWF groups perform, what rank they are compared to solo survivors
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I mean, by the strictest definition, they are using a third party program to gain an unfair, unintended advantage, so it's TECHNICALLY like... Hacking? Even though it's not punishable.
Seriously, they just need to give all survivors coms or at least a system like Identity V and just balance around coms.
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I mean, by the strictest definition, they are using a third party program to gain an unfair, unintended advantage, so it's TECHNICALLY like... Hacking? Even though it's not punishable.
Seriously, they just need to give all survivors coms or at least a system like Identity V and just balance around coms.
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They've said time and time again that they don't consider coms cheating.
It seems like cheating to me, but I don't think they will change it. It seems to me that DBDs success stems from survivors that play it and stream on twitch or youtube. People love to watch survivors 'outplay' the killer. If only those people knew how easy it is to loop any killer in this game.
Sometimes I feel like a damn fool for playing as killer; it's like BHVR knows we're all tryhards, so they know they can buff survivors as much as they want, and we will keep playing. They neglect and punish killers all the time. I mean, consdering the differences; survivors get just as many BPs, but they get them for doing a lot less; they're not stressed while playing because there are four of them; they aren't restricted from coms. It goes on...
I mean, when I think about it, this game can seem really stupid sometimes. It's clearly made to profit from the survivors that play it.
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Is using an external form of communication in a game built around the survivors having limited knowledge of events cheating?
Is it cheating if the Devs acknowledge they can't do anything about it and ignore the issue?
Is it cheating if you can't be punished for it?
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I consider SWF cheating as it is giving them an unfair advantage that the game isn't balanced around. This is by definition. I don't view it as any different than a killer using speedhacks except that one is bannable and one isn't. Would I want to play survivor against a killer using speedhacks? No, I wouldn't, so why would I want to play killer against a SWF?
If the game was balanced around SWF then sure, but it's not, so here we are.
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Voice chat is the most powerful thing SWF have access too. This is why high rank killers complain about balance all the time. The game hasn’t been balanced around people having access to voice chat, therefore voice chat is OP.
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Only thing they can do from like 10 seconds of putting a thought on it is depending on how big of a swf is buffing the killer in certain ways, maybe atleast this can be done for 4 man swf and I know 3 man swf would result in that 1 solo guy having an unfair game but yeah idk.
Personally I will dodge any 3 to 4 man swf survivor groups cause game is already hard enough as a killer not going to make it more miserable ty very much.
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And now you learn why several Killers dodge suspected SWF lobbies. Its not fear of the SWF or desire for the ez clap. Comms just ruin the fun for the Killer, and there is no way to predict when a SWF group uses it.
To help Survivors better see the perspective, ask yourself this. What if every other game the Killer could 100% see your aura all the time, there was no way for you to hide, but you couldn't see the Killers aura or even hear a heartbeat when they got close. Thats essentially SWF on comms in a nutshell for a killer. Massive amounts of info gain with absolutely zero loss or work on your part.
Again, that is why Killers dodge against SWF teams.
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BHVR don't ban for Comms and let's face it a lot of fun can be had playing with your SWF friends but it highly likely comes at a cost to the killers enjoyment.
I have played both killer, solo survivor and rarely swf (on comms). My rank rose quickly playing on comms but personally find most enjoyment from playing well solo as survivor.. you meet some good players and not so good. Killer is exhausting trying to balance 4 players, what perks they have, how many times hooked, where were they last etc something I might do after a cup of coffee.
SWF (on comms) is an advantage, I've sat on a hook tapping away whilst being camped and will happily die as they do the gens not worrying about having to rescue me
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Simply this is a huge imbalance which BHVR don't appear to have identified.
When I play solo survivor I don't want my game to be unbelievably difficult due to it being balanced sure to swf groups doing well
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There are issues with the basics such as map sizes, killer coverage, swf.
Suggested swf solutions so far are:
1. Allow killer as to how chilled their experience should be with a SWF sizes option to limit from 4,3,2 to just solos, this allows a more chilled game with certain hex and perks viable to use.
2. Reduce 'X' for SWF eg Bloodpoints, Perks, Power perks (DC etc), ....
3. Make swf teams highlighted in lobby
Stats need to be provided as hope often swf players do compared to solo.
Spectate needs to be disabled, a swf of 2 can almost become 3 is one dies.
These are just simple idea, do I need to think the worst when no action is being discussed or taken?
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