The real issue-killers want average 3-4k kills balance
The real reason killers mains despise SWF or adrenaline or toolboxes so much is that they loathe the game being balanced around 2 kills and 2 escapes per game. (Ideally.)
They ignore that just as 3-4 escapes per game balance would screw over killer players and be messed up, balancing for 3-4 kills per game would screw over survivor players and be messed up.
Survivor players aren't bots here for your pleasure. Maybe the ruin rework will sway the stats too much towards escapes and need to go who knows. But yes, the game needs to be balanced so survivor players have a decent 50/50 shot at escaping as well. #survivorsarepeopletoo
Answers
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Only problem with it,Is that you derank when you get 2 kills :/ That's why i don't like their emblem system,and i'm hoping they are gonna do something about it
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You're not gonna derank if you played well the whole game. Gen Pressure, chases, hits etc.
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"Survivor players aren't bots here for your pleasure.", well so are Killers they want to have fun, too. It sometimes comes down to this: All gens done when I've barely hooked all players, yet alone some barely reached struggle state. I could give two *Bleeps*, if they all escape, as long as we all had fun and I hooked everyone until they were on death hook. If the game was exciting and fun I don't give a single damn, whether anyone escaped. But since that is not a given and that 50/50 is reached not through fun but not being allowed to make any mistakes and constantly being on edge, as the power role mind you, the experience is not enjoyable.
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Thanks for your opinion, that is not based in any real facts. But thanks anyways.
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I don't understand this thought of balancing around kills. You can have 1 kill and pip. You can have 3 kills and depip. As survivor surviving is not a requirement at all to pip. So if we are balancing around these useless things are we just saying the pip and depip should not be important to anyone?
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What is your deal with hating on Killers?
Almost every discussion you have opened or comment you have made is hating on Killers.
#killersarepeopletoo
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Killers don't want 3-4 kills a match, they want a fair match. When you lose, it doesn't feel deserved. Even winning sometimes it doesn't feel deserved. There's too many broken and unfair mechanics.
(Also dev stats are completely meaningless. They use a tiny test-group and skew the data.)
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It is hard not go for 4ks when you are a killer. It takes a lot to switch your mindset away from seeing less than 3ks as a win. Even if you hooked everyone twice. And for the longest time even 3ks felt like a loss to me, I wanted that 4k.
But if the emblem system was changed to award killers for other actions then it may be easier but I doubt it. Killers want those kills.
Only reason I was able to switch my mindset was because I have been focusing on survivor and can sympathize with them more now.
But I still have to fight my ego when I play killer to not go all tryhard and kill them. But if I feel the survivors are trying to bully me and being cocky in their actions. I will go all out for the 4ks.
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You absolutely will derank a majority of the time in red ranks if 2 escaped. You will mostly just black pip if even one person finds the hatch. That's literally why people slug the 3rd to get the 4k.
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Its situational. If you're in red ranks and you absolutely don't have any idea what you are doing ofc you're gonna get -1. But if you keep your pressure, hook every survivor, if you don't slug, don't camp, you are def not gonna depip. You can farm in all other emblems and get 8k in all of them but you won't get 8k in sacrifice but that's enough for pip.
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I don't see the issue with wanting to win though?
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You can't really reason with killers that think anything under a 4k is a loss. They'll just jump on the "survivor main bad" bandwagon and make up some exuse about how the game somehow favours survivors.
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Which is why I think the game is relatively balanced at the moment. Most killers need some QoL buffs to make them more viable at higher ranks. But otherwise it's not in a bad spot. The emblem system needs a rework though. When kills are all the deciding factor in your pip it's an issue.
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Getting 8k in a category does not always equate to getting points for an emblem. I hope you're aware of that. You can have 8k in chase but never actually hit anybody receiving a bronze chaser emblem.
If two people escape, it means the gens were done in a relatively normal time, so your gatekeeper will not be iridescent nor will it probably be gold. You will also only get silver maximum for devout since two escaped. This means even if you get iridescent in the last two categories, you will still black pip. Do you know why? Silver/Silver/Iridescent/Iridescent is 12 points which is a black pip in red ranks. You need 13 points. (And you likely won't get both of those iridescent if two people escaped anyway.)
What happens most of the time however, if 2 escaped that means you probably didn't get enough chases/hits and probably not enough hooks either. (Which affects your malicious and chaser emblems.) You will likely average a silver emblem per category when people escape. (You may get gold in chaser and bronze in malicious, but still averages a silver.) 8 points is a depip.
I think you meant to @ someone else. I already said you'd probably derank at 2 escapes, which means at the most you will black pip even if you did literally everything else. (See above for the explanation of emblems.)
But this is also why people slug to get the 4k, they need that gold/iridescent kill emblem to ensure they get enough to hit the 13 points.
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we want to 3-4kill
because 2K=-1 3K=0 4K=+1 rank
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ye i meant to @ someone else :F
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2 kills are great if the match felt like what I did mattered and I had an impact. Basically defined as everyone 2+ hooked and no trolling from either side. If it's one of those 4 man swf teams that mess with me then yeah I want a 4k but it's so silly that people think "lol you only want 4 ks" and expect to be taken seriously
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Wrong. I want actually fair matches balanced around 2 kills a game. Thing is that isn't how it works, I either get a 4k or maybe one kill just because of endgame stuff, or everyone gets out and I never had a chance at all from the beginning and I knew it.
Matchmaking, ranking system, and in general the game is a nightmare for actually good matches, making them so rare. Most of the reason is because the devs see a match where every survivor escapes with minimal effort, and then a rank 1 killer devestates a group of rank 8 survivors who got maybe one gen done before all dying, and then goes "Yeah, that means average 2 kills so it's fair" and of course it's not even remotely close to being fair.
Edit: Also posting stats was probably the dumbest thing BHVR has done, people see any weakness in survivors or killers and assume they need to be buffed or nerfed, and will aggressively defend their stance- without even remotely considering the other factors that are far more crippling that are causing those discrepancies.
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no, killers want a chance to 3-4k even against very good survivors, or, in other words, that when everything else is the same (skill in looping and countering it, game sense, positioning..) no side is artificially aided.
As it stands right now, a good swf with com can have:
- huge maps
- synergising items and perks (e.g. toolboxes with a couple of prove thyself / medkits and borrowed time / flashlights and unbreakable / rainbow maps and key...)
- favourable rng with connected tiles / pallets
- ...Object of Obsession
I don't want to remove the casualness from DbD altogether, I think that's part of the fun, but I don't want either that if a survivor never mess up the Killer just don't stand a chance (...even when the killer don't mess up as well). The kill rate is so high and in favour of killers simply because there are not that many good swf with com and the matchmaking doesn't work - meaning that a good killer for every competent team will face at least 3 or 4 teams that aren't at its level.
That's also one of the reason why when @Peanits says that if a killer can't win without Ruin he will derank and play at a more comfortable level one becomes frustrated: if I'm rank 1 or rank 6 it won't change a thing, I'll face exactly the same survivors, with the same proportion. There's a inherent lack of meritocracy in the current ranking system first, and match making secondly (but arguably most importantly).
EDIT: and let's not forget the currently messed up audio. From what I know Devs never acknowledged that the audio is not working properly, so I really don't know what to make up from that.
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I agree
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Yes, and this egocentric mindset is the problem, but at least you are being honest, kudos for that.
The problem with the emblem system that some people mention here is real and DEVs must rework it for killers, so they are better rewarded even if they didn't 3k-4k. But the problem with low survival rate is just as bad for survivors and must be addressed too. 30%-35% escape rate on average is just not acceptable.
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I'll never understand this logic. Survivors want 3-4 scape but it's wrong if the killer wants 3-4 deaths?
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You have just invented that "logic". I never saw any survivor demanding that, most survivors understand that the game will be fair with 2 kills - 2 escapes.
That's just common sense. This game is played by real people, not by bots, so anything else is unfair for one of the sides.
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I agree totally with this. Survival rate is way to low. I know we don't know how those kill rates are achieved, but it doesn't really matter to the survivor. If i didn't get out it doesn't feel as good as when I do.
I think your right with the emblem system as well. It promotes the view of 4king for the killer as a win condition. Hopefully we can find a middle ground and rework this emblem system so it won't feel like a loss if 2 people get out on average.
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That statement is incorrect at red ranks. Gatekeeper gives no points now that ruin is gone and the update seems to have just broken ruin. To pip you have to max chase max hooks and get 4 sacrifices. You have to play perfectly to pip and anything less than that might let you safety. Non mobility killers have to 3 gen lock to get the game to last long enough and at that point gatekeeper emblem gives almost no points. I have to switch from clown and wraith to hillbilly and nurse or spirit just to have a viable killer option. Because ending Chase's quickly isn't enough anymore you have to move around the whole map pushing players off of gens and it just isn't possible against red rank survivors who know what they are doing.
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I have double pipped with 2 people escaping lol
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Excuse me? Are we playing the same game?
It's not a logic, it's a fact. Survivor ALWAYS want 4 scape. They're so quickly to spam borrowed time with no fear in the front of the killer and body block until the gates open. I'm sorry but only in your world survivors just leave the game just like that
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Most of the time I lose as survivor it doesn’t feel deserved either because the killer was every bit as much of a potato as my three teammates. That’s why I prefer playing killer, if I lose then it’s all on me and my own skills so I feel most losses as killer were fair and deserved.
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Survivors in game will often try to be heroes sure.
When have you seen any threads or posts on forums saying the game should be balanced for 3-4 escape?
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When the devs said that the game is balanced with only 2 kills??? I see, y'all just pretend to be naive
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The issue is killer mains gripe that the game is survivor favored being balanced for 2k. Your 2k "loss" means 2 survivors lost too. you think the game should be balanced so 4 people lose consistently for you? You think anyone will play that?
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Then why the game has 4 survivors against 1 killer? I should just focus in 2 survivors? Y'all survivor mains and these devs deserve each other
Like, really
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I don't always want a 3k+ match. My problem stems from the fact SWF can easily bully, especially if they're good. What you don't seem to understand is killers get punished for some of these SWF and the match making system. When I was new to the game soon as I reached yellow ranks as killer, I'm going against red, purples with their brown ranked friends. Killers have very little control, and that's a bit evident with the ruin changes. "Think of the new players." Yes, the match making screws them, but it's mainly due to the fact they want to SWF with their higher ranked friends.
YOU don't have control as a killer. It's if a survivor makes a mistake then you can punish them for it. If they fail to loop properly, you get to punish them for it. But you get punished more often as a killer than you do survivor. Yes, I agree that there should be some safe pallets and loops, but when you can't even mind game at them then it's pointless. You have to move on and let them abuse poor map designs.
While playing a game as a survivor, I ran into a 3 stack SWF who were purposely playing bad to derank so they could bully lower rank killers. So, some killers will derank so they can do the same thing. This comes down to toxicity in the community. But if I play well, that makes me a sweaty try hard killer. If I just play for fun, then I'm just a bad killer.
So really, this game is leaning towards survivors. I love playing killer, but sometimes it's disheartening. And please, don't say "they nerfed self care." You know why they did it? Literally healing faster than a killer can hit you. You messed up at a loop so the killer gets punished for it. Least that they changed.
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Nice bait 2/10
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This is a straight lie. It is impossible to gain 16 points in red ranks if 2 people escape. Even if you somehow held the Gatekeeper, Malicious, and Chase emblems to Iridescent, you cannot get Iridescent in Devout. You will only get silver. It is literally impossible. So please, stop lying.
If you are 2 pipping while survivors escape, you're not red ranks, and you're not what we're discussing.
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"I can't disagree so i'll call it bait" 😂 1/10
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Go play a some f13 against npcs thats your speed.
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Its called hooking everyone twice and chasing them throughout the whole game and not letting them do anything, and you can still double pip but i guess you havent applied that kind of pressure
and im rank 1 both sides lol
and who are you tell anyone who isnt rank one there not part of something, the devs could give no shits about what rank 1s want anyways.
also stop acting like rank actually determines skill bc it absolutely does not and if you think it does then you dont belong talking lol
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The devout emblem is literally "how many survivors you've killed." If you only kill two, you get a silver emblem. Again it's not rocket science, so stop lying. You must get iridescent in all emblems to double pip in red ranks as killer...i.e. 16 points. (You only need 15 points for survivor.)
Just based on how you're talking, you've never made it to red as killer at least but sure buddy keep thinking the way you want.
Edit - technically you can also only get gold in Devout if you kill all 4 but didn't get 9 hooks, but you absolutely cannot get iridescent with only 2 kills.
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I'm supposed to be offended? Say something better because if you're think that DBD it is in a okay placement... I'm so sorry for your dumbass mentality
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I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals.
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What tiny test-group? That's fake news. The entire player base was the test-group and there's nothing skewed. Come up with a better excuse. The stats are legit, you just can't accept that.
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But the game detects a 2k as Entity Displeased, aka a loss.
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The OP doesn't want to hear that. They just want to hear "Killer bad".
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im pretty sure of your playing that well you should be getting a four k unless you let people go
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You can get max chase, hits and 2 hooks on every surv but still be unlucky and somehow get ppl escape. For ex. keys or DS or borrowed.
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Does it really matter what the game shows you at the endscreen? Is it more important than a much more real metric of a game performance and fun, like the escape ratio? By your logic, if the game showed you "merciless victory" after 0k, you would consider that a victory, just because the game showed you that?
Makes no sense whatsoever and sounds like an excuse.
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Because to balance around 2ks, you would basically be always getting a 4k against bad survivor players, or 0 against good ones.
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That's exaggeration. But nonetheless, that's exactly the definition of "average", you can't make all people show the same performance in games, so there's no other better approach.
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