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Nerf Discord SWF please
The news about The Spirit nerf are really awful. I mean, for the time being she's the only killer that is able to stop coordinated SURVIVE WITH FRIENDS on comms from teabagging at the exit gates after doing five gens in three minutes (hi, nerfed Nurse). I can never believe that BHVR are that blind. It's not the killers they should nerf, nor the survivors. It's SWF! My suggestion is to make all actions 20% slower for each one SWF member, and also grant the killer +100% bloodpoints for playing vs SWF as well as allowing them to see, which survivors in the lobby are "friends". And when someone plays solo survivor, the should be awarded with +100% bloodpoints and obviously not suffer the slowdown.
Your thoughts?
Comments
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so you're basically saying because a killer is getting slightly adjusted you want to punish people who play games with their friends? Doesn't sound very nice at all.
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The better way to solve this is bring Solo and SWF play as close as possible, then balance them out accordingly.
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OMG WHAT?!? buff survivors??!!? are you insane?!? They must all suffer because the OP had a bad game.
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There should NEVER be a punishment for wanting to play together with friends. There should however, be incentives for people to play with/against SWFs.
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Just dodge unfortunately there really nothing else you can do swf will always be op not matter what.
However i dont think spirit nerf are that much of big deal she didn't get butcherd like nurse did.
I use play against swf as nurse (on console) but since she has power bar now she no longer fun to play or worth trying anymore so now i lobby dodge swf.
I might learn to play spirit since the nerf to her not to much of deal breaker. Imo but till then ill lobby dodge untill nurse basekit get changes back.
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The Spirit nerfs aren't even that bad. Only two nerfs to basekit and nerfing a few op add-ons.
This will only increase Spirit's skillceiling.
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dun dun dun, the obvious "play with friends" guys were quicker...
Friends can play together without
cheatingchatting with friends. but its easier, so theyre doing it.Anyways, they're right, but for the wrong argumentation.
Communications is NOT part of the game, so the devs cant do ######### to nerf it.
They could add some mechanisms to emulate some advantages real time communications give, but adding comms to those mechanisms will always give an advantage... Unless the devs add aura reading for literally everything, but thats even more broken than Comms in itself. Not to mention the obvious shift in the balance, which would need massive compensation survivors wouldnt want to endure.
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Solo queue for killers!
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Every SWF players says they are just "having fun" yet 90% of SWF in red ranks are sweaty try hards.
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If you insist on mechanical nerfs you're better of uninstalling and never looking back, as that will never happen in any way whatsoever.
The bloodpoint ideas are at least within the realm of realism, like other ideas like the "lessen the gap" approach and the introduction of more information into the survivor basekit in one way or another. But I know many people don't like them as they feel like it's a "bribe" or something like that.
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Just add VOIP into the game at this point. BHVR tried to make a limited information game, it's obvious when you look at the design of aura reading perks for survivors or the sheer fact that these exist instead of knowing where other survivors are at all times, but then opened up a can of worms by allowing friend groups to play together and not punishing the use of external voice comms. So given that we're going to switch to dedicated servers, VOIP should be easy enough to implement. At that point they can just buff all the other killers to be able to compete with teams using voice comms, and survivors can sleep in the bed that they made.
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They seem to be conviently blind while the nerf about nurse was discussed, the discussion was based about god player nurse somewhere somehow that do not represent the most people of playing nurse at all. Thus it seems illogical to try to downplay balance issues of the game with "oh well there might be only 5% who play like that but the rest is goofing around".
Literally nobody cares what you do when you do play with your friends, the game needs to be balanced and outliers such as "4man swf military group" has to be adjusted. Since you are absolutely right that you can not punish people to play with their friends this will mean that balance has to be adjusted for survivors as a whole.
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The solution to SWF is KWF, they should match SWF against people playing KWF. I'd like to see that happen, just imagine the nerfs for the players playing KWF. You think they would let two killers play together without nerfing them? They wouldn't, because killers are the power role... right?
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Freddy can do it. Nurse can still do it to an extent, though her map pressure is pretty bad now. Hag can do it IF you get an early down, and that can be a massive if. Billy is comically underrated at this point. And Plague's snowball potential has won me games when I only had 2 downs with 1 gen left. A SWF conducting a military training exercise will always win, but every other normal SWF is beatable.
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The problem is, what can you do for killers to compete with coordinated efforts?
Solo queue will still be worst off as survivor aren't used to eachothers comunication style or straight up muted the other players.
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For the eight millionth time, no.
You can’t punish people for playing together, que times would suffer.
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And before the nurse nerf only 0.5% of the nurse players were actually unbeatable. Just because it's a minority of people who abuse something it's no reason to keep it like that.
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How do you suggest we detect who's in voice chat and who's not? Scanning through someone's PC to see what programs they're using or monitoring their microphone is usually frowned upon, and it wouldn't stop you from whipping out your phone to voice chat or sitting in the same room as someone.
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Killers can't do anything because voice comms fundamentally breaks the game, if they're used even semi efficiently. And it's too late for BHVR to go back on allowing SWF teams, so they need to own up to having made a massive balance issue by letting voice comms be used in a game that's all about having imperfect information.
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I mean the swf issue is not in the game since yesterday. BHVR is not actively trying to solve a huge balance issue on the survivor side.
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It's basically expected anytime someone is in an SWF group. SWF is the primary issue not necessarily voice. Voice is just part of that package.
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So when are we going to see meaningful change in regards to SWF or solo being brought up to their level?
If we approach it like you do with killers we can just nerf SWF into the ground and be done with it. Or we can lift both solo survivors and weak killers up into more competitive range.
But you know SWF is a major problem in high elo, you know you can't stop it from happening, so when are we going to see any mention of dealing with the problem?
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I really love those "instant kill the game" ideas. There I can rant abut those peolpe as much as I like. Wait. Just stop those stupid ideas. This is a multiplayer game.
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Adding a solo vs swf que for killers would be like adding options of what maps and killers survivors are willing to play against. Won't happen, it would make que times insane.
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My question was, what can they do? The current narrative is buff solo to match SWF then buff killers. What nobody wants to answer is what these mythical buffs to killers would be. We already know the potential of SWF so we should have the basis to promote changes to killers if we were to buff solos.
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So you acknowledge that it is basically having 2 different game modes crammed together with SWF being in the game? If you play solo you are at a definite disadvantage, and if you're a killer most of the 4-man games aren't going to even approach fun let alone be longer than 5 minutes.
Separating the ques would be ignoring the problem, SWF would still be too strong and people wouldn't play it. If they don't want to play against it why is it still in the game and unchanged? We see people don't like playing against Nurse or Spirit and they get changed very quickly, but SWF has been in for years and has only gotten worse over time.
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Eww, disgusting thread post.
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You can't, you made yourselves a situation where you let people break your game at a core level. So now you have to find a way to compensate the other side. Because realistically, this is like saying "we can't really check for killers who are running wall/aim hacks, it's not nice to look through people's PCs". As I said further up, implement in-game VOIP and then balance around the game having survivors talking to one another, that's all you can do.
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So long story short all I hear is the fact your main was also nerfed, but instead of accepting it and realizing oh well it was needed. Your gonna complain and demand that the Devs make it so SwF is mind numbingly boring with a massive handicap and you deserve extra BP for this massive penalty suggested.
This is not an issue of the killer being weak or strong or the survivors who use voice coms. This is an issue of the killers skills in general being unae to keep up.
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You're really comparing apples and oranges here. Cheats and voice chat are not the same thing. But let's just say hypothetically that you do block every voice chat program out there.
- How do you stop people from using their phones?
- How do you stop people from communicating in the same room, LAN party style?
- How do you stop people from using Steam, which has voice chat and is required to be open in order to play the game?
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A multiplayer game built around the concept of imperfect information. SWF voice comms breaks that, so either the game just has inbuilt voice comms and balances around it or it does something about being breaking the game rules with third party software.
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I don't think you can
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According to dev statistics 4 man swf doesn't have a much higher rate than solos.
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I already said you can't stop people, I dunno why you're trying to make it seem like I am arguing that. But no, it is exactly the same, it's using third party software to gain an informational advantage you wouldn't have otherwise, just the same as wallhacks. Why use aura reading perks that are in your game when people can just team up as a 4 man and know one another's location and situation on the fly, while saving themselves a perkslot or a dozen. As I said, at this point you guys just have to bite the bullet and balance the game around voice comms.
You had a great concept with a game of limited information, but you let the community bully you into allowing them to break that aspect of the game.
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You can't stop people from communicating, but you can give solos more information like build-in "Kindred" or "Bond". It's not even that difficult to implement. So why BHVR refuses to bring solos near swf and buff killers accordingly?
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In that case you have to assume everyone is using voice or is able to do so and decides deliberately against using it. So you, as the devs need to take this into consideration when balancing and changing the game. Right now the game is NOT balanced around the usage of voice, despite enough evidence that the use of voice is easily accessible and widely used. The usage of voice combines a large numbers of perks without the required perk slot used and allows informational perks be shared with all survivors within the voice.
Voice also cancels perks and powers of killers without the killer have any option to knowing it in advance so killers always have to assume that voice is within the game and cannot use certain perks and powers to their fullest.
If you need a list of all the perks, there are plenty of posts about this already in this forum, but I would provide you the links if you wish so.
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This entire "third party software" arguement is completely pointless when it has been explicitly stated on this forum by Peanits themselves that using VOIP apps is not considered cheating in any way. It won't go anywhere just like mechanical nerfs to SWF parties in general won't go anywhere whatsoever.
General changes to survivors and killers (including the often mentioned "lessen the gap" approach) are the only ways that have even a non-zero chance of ever happening.
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And Nurse wasn't a problem outside of red ranks, and even then it was <20% difference at the highest.
Point is when they are a 4-man death squad there is very little you can do at all. Needs to be changed. End of story.
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I don't care what the devs justify it as to not have to deal with whiny survs who bullied them into letting them have SWF in the first place. It's a third party software, they can specify that it's not cheating, but they cannot ignore that the use of it gives survivor teams an unintended advantage.
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I like the idea of bonus bp for solo players. I solo and hate swf as they are not fun to play with. SWF is only fun for SWF.
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Don't act like survivors and the devs are nice with how the viable killers are being butchered and made "less fun"
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Well solution would be give them voice, let people mute other people if they so wish. Balance survivors around 4man swf top tier. That is the way to go and nothing else.
Quite simple yet i doubt we see it happening.
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those OVERPOWERED survivors playing with all those 'FRIENDS' of theirs!!!! those ABUSERS should start the match ALREADY HOOKED in the STRUGGLE phase and REDUCE the timer for EACH SWF MEMBER on the team!!!!
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Wow dude, you sure you're okay? You wanna sit down, maybe an ice pack for the muscle you pulled with that huge reach there?
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Wow so punish groups for straight up playing the game? Here's another bad killer wanting the game to favor him even more than it already does lol
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Wow, so not punish groups for using external resources to gain an advantage in the game? Here's another bad survivor wanting the game to favour him even more than it already does lol
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Its a good meme is my opinion. That is absolutely hilarious my man. Keep up the great ideas and never give up until you get what you want.
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You can always just dodge for now. From what I've seen 3 and 2 man swf is much more common that a 4 man.
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Let's be honest here: Nobody uses comms to just "have fun with friends". There is only 1 goal for those people, and that is to win. And while they're on comms together, why not be toxic to the killer together? They'll have an absolutely care-free game anyway, getting all the gens done in 5 minutes or less. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, SWF, at least in the game's current state, is an unfair advantage over the killer. You play killer and get destroyed by SWF all day. Your tune would change.
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I play survivor and hate swf groups. They only concern themselves with their own groups and farm the rest.
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