Server-side detection hits are going to ruin the game for killers
I play survivor a lot and can say that getting hit from multiple feet away can be really frustrating at times and take some of the enjoyment away from the game, but as survivor you still get 3 chances even without second chance perks.
Killer though, is a whole different ballpark. One small, tiny mistake can lose you the whole game. Simply missing one hit on a survivor and the chase dragging out for another 15-30 seconds can be the difference.
When this new way of detecting hits comes out, killers will now start swinging through survivors and getting empty hits. This happening just one time in a match could be enough to lose a game, not to mention if it happens multiple times to multiple survivors.
If this server-side detection works like I think it will, I think a lot of killer players will stop playing or getting the same enjoyment out of the game.
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Yeah, im concerned as well.
Let's for tomorrow's PTB to see, but knowing how "well" dedicated servers were implemented, I'm expecting the worse. Let's hope not.
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That shouldn't happen unless you have a really bad connection, in which case you probably shouldn't be getting those sorts of hits to begin with (your bad connection is giving you an advantage).
If your connection is good, you shouldn't notice any difference. Your hits will still be 100% instantaneous and feel exactly as they do now.
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Could you tell us what exactly is considered a good connection in order to not be affected by the servers?
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When they announced it, my first thought was "this is going to be the thing to do it."
I don't know about any other killers, but after dealing with interrupts not working, and the changes to ruin... my tolerance is running low. If they do this, and it doesn't work out, they better not implement it anyway like they did dedicated servers - even though they aren't ready, add them to the game anyway. I'm at a point with the failed interrupts that whenever it happens and makes me lose the match, I just turn the game off. It's too damn discouraging, and I have better things I could be doing.
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I’d be extremely surprised if most people have issues. In a dev stream a little while back they said that a ping of 150 is good, so the vast majority of players will probably not be penalised if they have similar thresholds for server validation. It will most likely only be those on VPNs or with god awful connections that will suffer, and that’s fair IMO.
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survivors have been suffering for this, killers used as excse they just were getting "dedicated" the first months until it was proven the killer internet is the issue now it's their turn and survivors with good internet will finally stop suffering from unfair hits.
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Just out of curiosity, what happens if the survivor has horrible ping?
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Probably less than 100 of ping.
a stable connection
and low packet loss..
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It is purely detrimental to them. They appear behind on the server (closer to the killer), so having a bad connection as a survivor means you'll probably get hit through windows still.
To put it as simply as possible, the person with the bad connection feels their bad connection no matter which side they're on, not the other people they're playing with.
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Glad to hear 😁
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Do you know how the game decides which server it puts you in?
I tend to have an average of 60ish ping, but if I change the language of my PS4 to English, my ping goes through the roof.
So I'm guessing the servers use my system language to determine where it puts me.
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The connection in my neighborhood has regular T3 timeouts due to some feedback in the line somewhere. People in my neighborhood got together and asked the ISP to find it and fix it, but they usually just send out some incompetent martyr to take the flack, while giving the impression that they're trying to fix it. I don't know why they are so unwilling to fix it, but a friend suggested it's the cost - he's a network engineer that started as a tech for a cable company before going to school. Apparently it can be really expensive to locate it. But, anyways, these timeouts are unpredictable and can cause huge lag spikes. I don't know why it's only ever been an issue in this game, but I don't have a good feeling about this. No offense to the devs, but sometimes I wonder if their programmers are learning about network engineering in their free time or something like that, or they're simply not putting in the money to hire enough of them. I just don't understand why I've never seen the kinds of issues I experience in DBD in other games that I've played.
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Based on my years of playing DbD. A good connection was anything below 120ms, back when the game was p2p. On dedicated servers a good connection tops off around 80-100ms for player interactions. Anything higher will become very noticeable.
This is due to how p2p being a direct link between Killer-Survivor using only a single ping and dedicated servers being Killer-server-Survivor going through 2 pings and thus doubling the lag.
With this system I expect a good ping to be closer to a flat 80ms or lower from the server needing a (relatively small) amount of time to process the data of if a hit if legit or not.
There is no way this change will not effect Killers and Survivors as it will add more lag to the game by basic math and the laws of physics. Killers though will get the worst of it. To give an example. Think of how Shape and Ghostface have problems with their powers due to needing server sided double checks. It shouldn't be THAT bad, but close to it.
I predict, this will not end well. But it is gonna happen no mater how good or bad the PTB goes as shown in past PTBs and their changes.
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What happens if you put it to English - UK? Just out of curiosity :P
You could use traceroute on the command line to see where the connection is pinging through to reach the server. You'd have to manually look up the addresses in the route, but it would tell you where the connection is being routed to. If it changes based on the language you've selected, then I would say you figured it out! However, I don't know if that's due to how playstation network works, or how DBD's sevrers work.
It's kind of fascinating how these things work. Like, recently I found out that clearing the learning dictionary on my PS4 reduces lag. Not sure how, but it worked a bit.
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Thanks for clarifying.
Sometimes when Im getting really bad ping I reboot the game and change my ps4 back to my home country language, which is Portuguese (BR).
I thought changing the language was making the game put me in a LATAM server, but I guess it's just the rebooting that fixes it then.
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Don't really know for console. But you IP address should tell the game roughly where your physical real world location is. Likely not the street address but your country, state, and city at least. Using that the game puts you in the closet server to that location.
This is why people hate VPNs. They feed your traffic through a server giving its IP address for any connection traces and the game reads that VPN server as your location. Allowing you to match with anyone anywhere in the world.
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Since the day they introduced dedicated servers on PS4 I have had constant issues with lag, and even an occasional disconnect for no reason whatsoever. These are issues I never had before the dedicated servers, and ones I still don't have with anything other than DBD.
Regardless, as a survivor main I figure one of two things are gonna happen when hit detection gets relegated to the awful dedicated servers.
1) If I'm anywhere in the killers terror radius and the killer takes a swing I'm gonna take a hit
2) They better make a superman/supergirl cosmetic now because I'm gonna be invincible.
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i wish i could believe this, but idk man i have a great connection and the dedicated servers still kick me out of games at all stages of it from time to time. Then i get to wait out a temp ban by no fault of my own. I just dont understand why you're giving the survivors the check first? is it to keep them quiet about the latency thing? Because theres more survivors than killers? I think its a bad idea as well
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The server side hit validation is the best thing that can happen to this game and I'm glad bhvr are finally changing this after so long. (I was already saying it long time ago in my only post on this forum)
Players with a poor/unstable connection and high latency to the server will now be disadvantaged for it, no matter what side they play, which is a change everyone should welcome.
I hope it will work well and that this change becomes live on all platforms very soon. I also wish more actions in the game will also start to be coded server-side in the future.
This change is a must, if devs feel like the game is not so well balanced anymore, they can always balance things again after so the game still feels fair fo both sides. But Server side hit registration has to happen and stay in the game from now.
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Ahh, I was asking because the person I had replied to said they had some weird behavior by changing the language on their console, suggesting that server routing was dependent on that, possibly.
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Yeah. Apparently it is perfectly fine if bad networking code ruins the game for survivors, but God forbid it affects killers in any way.
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sadly we already have a taste of this with grabs (broken for months now). Having rollback on hits with these horrid dedicated servers will be very very fun for killers.
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I'm sorry. I do NOT enjoy being hit by Huntress hatchets when I'm already safely behind a wall.
I do NOT enjoy being hit 2 seconds after dropping a pallet.
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This is exactly what I was saying, maybe read my comment again. The game must be fixed. We can't just leave it like that just because it affects survivors only and benefits killers.
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Sadly, this is what I have read on this forum as well. There was another Thread where Killers said they would quit if they would get robbed of Hits. Meanwhile, a Survivor can get hit from Narnia and they should have to deal with that?
I think we will see how it turns out. I guess it will not really make a difference for normal gameplay and there will still be hits which are questionable, but it should work against VPNers or players with way too high Ping.
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Yeah, like grabs feel now right? You got a perfect grab and, wait! Rollback a little bit and it's cancelled!
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I know you're not on that team but I saw a thread months ago and had no replies, except for some users who had the same problem.
There is an issue with south america servers, I have a good connection 60ms with my server. But there are times where my ping goes all way up to 300ms, generally from 6 pm EST to 8 pm EST or 9 pm EST and when I check on the other player's profile they appear as to be located in UK so I want to ask if you possibly can give me an answer (because I know you're not into that part of the team) if the South America servers are being shut down and it relocates player to another server or what kind of problem could this be.
Thanks for your reply. :)
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And what happens if a survivor is the one lagging? I notice that's never brought up and I worry we are just flipping the issue here
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That was answered here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1417855/#Comment_1417855
But in short, the person lagging is always going to be the one at the disadvantage. If the survivor is lagging, their position is behind on the server, which is beneficial to the killer. If the killer is lagging, they're behind on the server and it's possible their hits will be rejected.
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Well that's a bit more comforting ty
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If the devs genuinely think a ping of 150 is good, then they're even more incompetent than I thought. There's not a single (good) competitive game that considers even 100 ping as good, let alone 150. generally 50 ping is considered bad in online games.
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Neat! Thanks for explaining
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You use words like "shouldn't", it tends to make people nervous. Let's face facts here, yall don't have the best track record of releasing glitch free patches, which by itself isn't a big deal, but then you ignore those glitches for months at a time, especially when it affects killer only.
Look at grabs, or matchmaking. Broken for 6 months and counting. When you have a pattern of problems that aren't fixed, people lose faith in your ability to put out a quality product.
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I've got a feeling that this will both upset and surprise a lot of survivors once it is tested.
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This is ABSOUTELY going to do this.
I have a good connection and yet its very common when I down a survivor they move several feet. When I am the survivor I notice my ping is almost ALWAYS the best ping in the match. So the connection thing doesn't add up to me.
So yes this is going to screw with killers big time. I don't get what its even supposed to do in the frist place.
Detect if a hit was actually possible. Well how do you do that if two different people have a connection and see two different things? The hit was clearly possible on the killers side? I really only see this doing EXACTLY what OP said it would do.
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I don't imagine that the community is going to love this as much as everyone says they will.
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Well I'm sure the "reasonable and fair survivors" will love this. For killers though going against top notch survivors and missing a SINGLE SWING can absolutely lose you the match. Now it sounds like we will be closing in on survivors and swing and miss for no reason. Thats a death sentence.
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So basically even basic hits will now work the way grabs and stalking do? Sure, yeah, the game is going to be feeling a lot better when everything the killer does except walking is dictated by rng.
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Sub 50 ping in dbd isn't feasible for most of the community considering how few servers they have. Under 100 ping is definitely good in this game.
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In games like rocket league I constantly sit around 30-40 ping. Dead by Daylight though, I'm lucky to get under 80
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100% this. I am in Texas and most of my matches are on South America servers.
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If you don't have any knowledge about networking and the inner workings of multiplayer games you better not make assumptions and write nonsense.
Both survivors and killers are clients in a client-server architecture(like we have with dedicated server). In ANY serious multiplayer game the server is the authoritative entity. The server is responsible to make sure all clients are synchronized and the data they send to the server is actually valid.
Imagine a first person shooter where the server just trusts the client, like the DBD servers trust the killer now. The client can simply tell the server "I just head shot every single person on the other team". If the server doesn't do any sanity checks, then boom, everyone else dies and the cheater instantly wins, even if all the other players were behind walls, 100 meters away from the cheater.
The server must validate everything that happens, it must make sure the timeline of events is consistent across all clients. So, for example, the survivor says "I used dead hard" and the server receives this message. Then, the server will tell the killer that this survivor used dead hard. However, before the message reaches the killer client, the killer sends a message saying he hit the survivor. Right now, the server will go like "oh cool, you hit him" and we end up with the bullshit hits and exhausted on ground. But what it should do is reject the hit message because it reached the server AFTER the dead hard message from the survivor.
It doesn't matter what the killer or the survivor sees, since switching from p2p architecture the Killer no longer has the correct sequence of events. The correct even sequence is the one happening on the server. This isn't an advantage for survivors or for killers, this is simply making a multiplayer game with client-server architecture work as it is supposed to be.
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mate i have 70 pings, and god tier network optic fiber connection that make all my other games run as smooth as a washed apple. yet in dbd i get unfair hits, dead hard activated and i still get hit and my character dont dead hard 90% of the time. etc.. and sometimes i even get drop fps in chases by the killer and i got high end pc. lel.
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WOAH! I have not seen this thread since July the 8th. Thanks.
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So you're saying its impossible to lag switch?
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This post is mandatory reading for everyone discussing this topic, I couldn't have possibly said it better myself.
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Okay, i have a clip in which my friend got downed miles away from the killer
i can confirm that he was indeed nowhere near the killer (from my pov) +he didn't teleport after getting downed
this happened while hit validation was active, my friend wasn't lagging at all
there are 2 possiblities to why this happened
- Even with hit validation, the game is still prioritizing the killer's connection EVEN with hit validation.
- Hit validation is faulty
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Alternatively you and your friend had very high ping to that server, or he was experiencing packet loss. Either way, the server didn't consider him to be where he saw himself. This does not mean "it's prioritizing the killer's connection", it means there was some other issue with player's positions being properly updated.
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