"If enough people report you, you're gone" mentality.
As much I want to give Behavior and community some credibility and faith on their auto-ban system, I feel there needs to be a discussion on this particular topic. In the 5th Anniversary stream, there was mention about an auto-ban system and this raised a brow with my friends and I. I spoken with a few smaller content creators and they even agree it has some worrisome factors. A lot of us have been playing for years, heard this report accusation, and nothing ends up happening to us.
Yet, if we compare this to other big-titled games (like LoL or Overwatch), there has been known cases of players manipulating the game report system to get someone else in trouble. This can be in the form of twisting the facts to benefit the messenger, encouraging players to mass false report, or baiting a reaction to send a report. Alongside, depending on how the automation is handled, some toxic behavior can be slipped through the cracks because the program doesn't detect a specific phrase, word, or analogy. It can also be false red-flagged because the bot doesn't decipher the context of the situation. I can see Behavior's good intentions, but there needs to be oversight.
Now, why do I bring this particular issue up?
A few nights ago, I was playing around with the infamous Basement Bubba build and camping people in the basement. For context, I wasn't making any attempt to single-target people. If I got them in a different game and they ended up as a victim, then it was by pure coincidence. Whoever ended up in the basement first was the victim for the game. I was following the game rules addressed here by not_Queen:
Back to the subject at hand, I ran into a particular SWF who got hostile and vile towards me for my play style. They all tried to rush save the victim, but ended up getting insidious chainsawed by Bubba. This made them incredibly upset and started harassing me in chat for playing basement bubba. I tried to clarify to the individuals this wasn't a reportable offense and it was a strategy. Yet, what was said afterwards made me a bit concerned...
(I cut down and censored the conversation to protect the privacy of other players and keep the topic at hand.)
This makes me gravely concerned for the auto-ban system. It's not the first time I've been threatened by this, but the growing mentality some players are getting is alarming and concerning. All because if someone doesn't like a specific play style the killer or survivor is doing, then they can tag a report onto the individual for x, y, or z reason. (I've been accused of being AFK, hate crime against another, toxic, etc. for simply running the build.) This can easily become an issue for killers, since we're in a 1v4 dynamic. If a full-SWF or a partial-SWF gets mad or upset at a killer's play style, then they can dog pile reports onto the killer. If enough reports meet the quota and the player gets suspended automatically by the bot without review, then the automation system is open season for abuse.
That's why I want to bring this up for attention before the system gets implemented soon. No matter what game this automation system has been implemented, people have been known to abuse the system. Unfortunately, this game (like many others) does have a block of players who will cry foul at anything and call the moderators in. This is a video game and people should be allowed to enjoy the game however they want, as long it's in the game's rules, even if the play style is something you may disagree with.
Comments
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Well, it will be impossible for people to coordinate reporting you with the in game system beyond the 4 you played with.
From what I understood it is that once you pass a certain threshold it’s forwarded to the devs for manual review. Hardly an auto ban.
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Hackers are already able to give you unlimited disconnect penalty and other stuff, they should be able to send unlimited reports.
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Lmao this a serious discussion but the "A strategy of what? being creepy" is actually hilarious
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Maybe post this in the Feedback area of the forum ?
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From what i got from it, it is an automatic ban system not a automated report system. Its always bad to give something important like this into the hands of an automated system. For what we know a simple error could ban a huge amount of players. The thing is, they don't have enough personal/employees to review every case, thats why they want a automatic system.
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They said "take action." That usually means that some punishment will be given out.
Additionally, BHVR has not denied these claims when they were brought up on the Forums, they merely said it wasn't finished, which leads me to believe that that's exactly how it will work.
Why else would they not deny those claims that the system will auto-ban players?
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It’s also not particularly helpful that many players are making innocent mistakes with interpretations of much of the terminology.
It’s understandable why many players who wouldn’t even come to these forums, or the games social media channels, report a killer for blocking a survivor into a corner or crevice for a hit, or use of their power, or just taunt the survivor for a little bit, because in their mind the report system says body blocking is reportable l, and is quite vague about specifically what type of body blocking is against the game rules.
So yeah, like you I’m concerned about genuine vindictiveness, but I’m more concerned about the monumental amount of reports that would get lodged daily due to misunderstanding the terminology of what’s reportable.
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As much I would like to post this in the feedback area, some don't venture in this area. Also, I don't have mere useful suggestions, ideas, or criticism I can make on an idea that the developers aren't publicly detailed and open about yet. I'm basing this on the little information we do have and the assumptions some players have ingrained in their minds.
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Yeah, but if the stories are somewhat similar and it goes through moderator review, then it could be plausible those reports are legitimate in the moderator's or developer's eyes. As I said in my original post, some people are sore enough losers that they're willing to lie through their teeth and manipulate a story to make someone else look horrible.
That's what I received from the anniversary video too. It seems to kick in a ban system rather than send it straight to the moderators for review, but there's lack of information regarding this and some people are taking advantage of it. Behaviour's public records has roughly 600 employees compared to Nintendo and Ubisoft's thousands of employees.
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If that is how it works I am going to uninstall. Can wait to get reported for:
Playing Spirit
Playing Hag
Running NoED
Running my all-or-nothing build
"Camping"
"Tunneling"
Slugging
And
Running Lithe
Using BNP on a commodius tooldbox.
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Can everyone who reads this band together to ban the OP?
(Kidding, kidding. Just making an ironic joke).
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I nearly lost my ######### reading that. I would have if not for the kidding at the bottom.
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In a good way or a bad way? XD
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Exactly. As much I hate certain things on that list, I don't get petty and throw a temper tantrum to report someone.
I had people threatened to report me for simply playing Wraith or running Mad Grit.
I can't tell if they're being serious or sarcastic.
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Very bad.
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I know people that report players every other game. Be it teammates who did stupid things or be it the Killer. Sometimes multiple people at once. I am against a automated system, we dont have enough people that would need to be banned in my opinion.
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LOL sorry, I couldn't help it.
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There are going to be so many false reports just because of stuff like this. I once had someone threaten to get me banned just because I said I wasn't very good as killer. He got triggered cause of this. Insisted I was lying and was really good cause I killed him. I still don't know how to respond to that.
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Yes for the bodyblocking. I once found 3 survivors in the showers room of the map "The Game" as Doctor. I just used my power to put ALL of them to madness tier 3 before hitting them. The 3 of them claimed it was reportable and reported me for that. I'm pretty sure at least 70% of the player base has actually no idea what's actually reportable or not....
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Yeah. I know people if you simply breathe the wrong way towards them, they'll become enraged at you. l made a screw up recently from anger issues and got a 48 hr temporary suspension for communication abuse. So I rather avoid getting myself in any more trouble, because it's not worth being toxic. However, my account can be at risk for another suspension or termination from the automated reports.
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Honestly, that's the problem. I'm curious of the statistic how many reports are legitimate and what's fake.
That's why they need to clarify the rules from the 2018 post from not_Queen. I know they did it in a developer stream in 2018, but it needs to be detailed in word form and not just in video form. Alongside, it's best to give reminders to the community what is and isn't allowed, because this game had a giant influx of players since that developer stream.
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When the system auto bans because of a certain number of reports, then, judging from the -rep comments on my profile, I'll be one of the first ones to get a ban.
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It depends on how long you did that. If it was a minute or two, you're fine. If it was ten or more, I believe you deserve a ban. You can't just waste everyone's time holding the game hostage to that extent and think that you are justified in doing so.
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While I understand everyone's concerns, I'm not especially worried about it. The devs aren't so dumb (yeah yeah, I expect jokes) that they'll have something in place like "ten complaints in a day and you're banned". They said that it would be about volume, the sheer amount of complaints. I would assume that this means, say, something reasonably verifiable like "50 unique user complaints over the span of 48 hours" or 100 over the span of a week, that kind of thing.
If the person being mass-reported is actually innocent and just playing normally we can assume that his matches last an average of maybe 10 minutes each. Between loading and lobbies let's make it 15 minutes each. That's four matches per hour. If this person played for eight straight hours that's a total of 32 matches in one day. If (and this is all hypothetical of course) they did, in fact, program the system to require 50 unique reports over a 48 hour period this would mean that at least 1 person would have to report the guy in almost every single match he plays over the course of two straight days. Either that or EVERY other player, including the killer, would have to report a dozen of his matches. That's either 1 person reporting the guy in EVERY game for a day and a half, or EVERY other player in the match being so upset with him that they come together more than a dozen times to report him en masse. The odds of that many total strangers unfairly reporting someone that many times over that short a period are so slim that I think that even this random, hypothetical "50 reports in 48 hours" scenario leading to the unwarranted ban of legitimate players is almost inconceivable.
I'm not BHVR, I don't know what they're doing. But they're programmers, they're aware of how many complaints they get, they know that tons of the complaints are just petty time-wasting nonsense. I have little doubt that if there's going to an auto-ban system it will be set up in such a way that it will take either a sizeable number of corroborating reports about multiple bannable infractions from many unique users over a relatively short period of time OR a massive horde of people who don't know each other suddenly deciding to work in collusion to assassinate the same random person all at once.
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Ok lets do a race whos faster banned my dude :)
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Since I often play on Playstation, I get a lot of the salt not so with, but now and then I do tasks for my wife from the current rift and then stray to the PC and what I may then partly listen to, you probably know yourself. :)
An autoban system is difficult when many people don't even know the addons of the killers and don't know that Pig with Amandas letter for example is not a hacker and BBQ is a perk with which you can also see auras. I don't even want to imagine what kind of flood of false reports comes together.
Or the killer who's angry because you've kept him on the same loop forever.
The question is how BHVR will manage that only the real reports are taken into account. Will video evidence still be required, or will people be banned for arbitrary complaints, some of which come from ignorance?
I also have a bad feeling about this and am curious to see what will come out of it.
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I´ll probably win because of things like this:
Literally everyone reports me.
*makes sad Bubba noises*
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bruh I got reported by a swf because I hit the last survivor on the hook after they all played toxic against me for griefing and "possible aura reading hack" becuase I can hear grass moving xD.
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Wallhack reported because i found a Injured Feng in a Bush.
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Report for abusing noed bug as Oni by just using Blood Fury without using noed.
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How I imagine it would work is the report or reports are made the system will then in the reports look for key words that are and aren't reportable e.g. tunnelling=not bannable so discard, wall hacks=bannable, the system then ideally would watch the match back and check for anything wall hacks.
This is an ideal system but I don't work for BHVR so can't really say anything I just hope for the sake of the innocent players who get constant reports for no reason to at least have something to back them up without having to save recordings of all their matches.
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While the auto-ban feature is still being developed and we don't have details to share yet, you can be assured that as long as people play within the game rules, they won't get banned, and I'm sure offenses that require video evidence will still require said proof.
You can check the game rules here if you have doubts: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/139-game-rules
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1 thing I want the system to have that failing accusse for breaking rules should receive at least half a ticket.
Many report just for pure hatred. Its the mental of "If my report success, win. If not, nothing affect me"
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You are playing basement bubba, did you expect them to be happy?
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Oh, I know that from the current standpoint it works right now. There's no argument from that front and I agree with the moderation being handled. I'm just worried with the future moderation strategies when the system starts going into automation and certain players try to manipulate it. All because those certain players either doesn't like (x) or they didn't like their play style and felt the need to fabricate a story to get them in trouble. (Ex. Some users making false claims of being hate crimed, despite actual incidents occurring.)
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People are welcomed to play whatever they want, as long it doesn't violate the rules. I may not like Iridescent Head Huntress when I go against it as a survivor, but I bite the bullet, play it, and move on. I know a lot of survivors still disconnect and get salty over the current Iridescent Head addon, despite being the weakest point its ever been. Hence, you can't make everyone happy in this game.
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That makes no sens tho...... right now reporting anyone does literally nothing. The only way to get a hacker banned is to submit video footage you as the player recorded, via email for a physical person to , at some point in the nebulous future review.
And not you saying after the auto-ban sytem.... we still need video proof?! wth is it for then tho? You clearly don't have a department big enough to handle the manual reports coming in now you're trying to tell us "all" the system will do is bypass the emails and flag an account for review after it gets enough reports? That's sounds LESS efficient O_O
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Exactly, but you know that no one likes to play against basement bubba. You can play him if you want but you shouldn’t expect anyone to be nice to you after you ruined their game.
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Again, bite the bullet and move on. I know killers who love to slug, tunnel, and facecamp indiscriminately, but no amount of whining or reporting will change their play style. They're welcomed to play that way, along with the survivors who want to send killers to Haddonfield with Keys and BNPs. At the end of the day, Dead by Daylight is a video game and we are here to fool around in a video game. Not trying to ruin each other's experience by trying to ban the other individual.
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The report system works if done correctly, of course you need video evidence to prove someone is hacking, otherwise people would get banned for no reason because who reported them didn't know how specific perks work for example, this tend to happen quite a lot.
Again, we do not have details to share yet, since the system is still in development, I'm just explaining that actions within the game rules (camping and tunneling for example or tbagging) won't lead to a ban.
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I would like to add onto this and say if you report someone for hacking, write a brief description in the game client and save the detail report for a support ticket. By the time you can clip, upload, and get the URL ready for evidence, the game lobby would be closed and you won't be able to report. So, use the few minutes to file a brief information ticket on them and follow it up by gather crucial details of the hacker by getting their profile, video evidence (including identifying it was said person), and anything else that would help the support team in the support ticket. It may take a few hours or days to respond, but I've seen success from them.
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I guess if they got banned for ruining the game they will eventually stop. They can do whatever they want but nobody will be kind to people like this.
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I realize that this isn't something you get to decide, so if this seems rude I apologize. Bhvr's past record is why I and a lot of other people do not have faith that this will be implemented in an appropriate way. I mean how long have dedicated servers been out and grabs are still not fixed, Myers stalk is still broken, etc. MMR has been a dumpster fire every single time it was turned on, I could go on and on. Actions speak louder than words and I'm sorry but only a fool takes someone at their word when they have failed to live up to their word time and time again.
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Don't forget about Console Optimization!
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It was just to put them at madness tier 3. Also it was 3 of them so the 4th one could finish all gens if I were to try to hold them hostage forever.
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I read "big-titled" as "big-titied". What is wrong with me?
Back on topic, yeah, I'm kinda worried about this system going live. I feel like it's gonna be a #########-show.
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Feel like if they dont do this right, half the killer players will be banned within a week. The amount of people that dont bother reading perks before announcing that something is a hack is alarming.
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This is just ######### survivors spout after getting shat on by tactics they deem as 'unfair'
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reported for using spirits phasing to get to another side of a loop where the survivor is.
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Gonna be honest, things like Basement Bubba are exactly what needs to be punished, so... Not exactly complaining, you are actively trying to ruin other people's trials. That sort of thing is absolutely bannable in other games under the term "griefing".
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