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Why Boil Over & DMS Came to Live?
People tested them on PTB and both perks had issues. And now, both perks came to live without changes.
Why?
Do BHVR have any tester? Are your testers trying this perks before PTB? Or are you listening your community, who are trying changes on PTB? People saw issues and how BHVR ignored everything?
Comments
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StAtIsTiCs
30 -
Because boil over didn’t affect escape rates. People just got bled out instead
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At this point I don't think BHVR trusts their community. And I can see why, the community has largely been complaining about how survivors are OP when it's clear as day that Killers have been dominating and still are. So you can see how they would be wary of listening to feedback about balance.
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Yeah this explain all unhealthy DbD issues...
Both perks are supporting unfun and unhealthy game designs.
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I don’t think bhvr care about that. Face camping is still a thing and many killers are still designed in an unfun way (Nemmy or artist)
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And yet the Killer playerbase is dying and it's clear as day for everybody to see.
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I think you're right (well, about the first part, anyway, the second part is more complicated than that.) I suspect the reason they didn't listen to PTB feedback about CoH and now these two is because they did listen to PTB feedback about Lucky Break and it ended up being overblown. At this point, they're just assuming the community is afraid of anything good and they're waiting to take their own observations.
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I know that Boil Over has been problematic because of how abusable it is but what's the problem with Dead Man's Switch?
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It’s good.
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It's prorbably this, before the release of the Re chapter there was a 5 pages thread about how counterforce being OP.
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I remember that. It's so hilarious in hindsight that Counterforce was going to be the end of the world for hexes, and then three months later, boons happened.
I'm pretty sure I was concerned about Counterforce at the time, but yeesh, talk about a miscalculation.
Artist can facecamp someone and force everyone off every gen with birds. Either you hook trade and she does it again, or you let the person die and less time than usual to slam gens because about a third of the full hook timer is blocked by DMS.
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I’m at the point now where I don’t think BHVR give a damn about killer experience. They know that Boil Over can easily be abused on certain maps but are making the excuse of needing to “monitor it” more after the change went live.
Killers have already had a ton of reasons to stop playing the game lately, and for those who haven’t quit yet, the tools that survivors have now encourage the most sweaty, toxic and unfun play possible for killers to secure kills.
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That sounds like an issue specific to artist, not the perk itself
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And boil over problem is specific to some maps in specific places
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We are continuing to monitor the situation with both perks - I am aware that certain maps are more of an issue than others with Boil Over in particular and it's something that has been brought up with the team.
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What's wrong with DMS? I've been testing it and it's bad on most killers, and sort of decent on a handful.
Boil Over...yeah. That is a miserable perk to go against now.
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DMS is bad on a lot of killers, semi-decent on some, good on Freddy, and is easily the best perk in the game for Artist, allowing her to camp the hook while also protecting generators for 45 seconds at a time.
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I think the question is more "how did this come to live? How was this not caught by internal testing?"
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I've been using it on Artist and I think it's basically okay. The issue is more the camping side of things, which BHVR are already going to fix afaik.
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They're looking into fixing facecamping, but regular camping is a-okay.
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Appreciate the response, but.... the issues with both perks were pretty self evident, and the PTB had some very vocal complaints and issues with them in practice.
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You mean proxy camping? Artist isn't really that great at it unless she dedicates multiple birds at a distance for a double tap. She's an M1 killer and cannot use her power near hooks - just bum rush her.
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DMS is okey on Trapper, Pig, Myers, Legion etc.
DMS is strong on Freddy, Doctor, Nurse, Blight, Demo etc.
DMS is issue on Artist. Why?
You got down one survivor, you hooked him. First gen blocked by Pain Resonance. And then you are sending your crows to other generators. If survivors leave gen, they blocked too. If survivors stay on generator, you will snipe them with next crows.
And you are doing this while you are camping your hook. Survivors need to hook trade for save their teammate.
Artist has great generator pressure while she is camping with this perk.
So... They need to nerf Artist's camp gameplay or they need to nerf DMS. Because all killers need to leave hook for value of DMS. But Artist can stay on hook and pressure on generators. This is not healthy and broken.
This is issue about DMS for me. And i tested myself btw.
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Regarding Artist - think of it this way.
PR does not proc DMS afaik. Stay on gens until you get birded, then leave. Keep in mind that the 'block' protects the gen from regression (it should also stop the mini pops, but I'm not sure about this). If she's sending birds to gens, she isn't using birds to camp.
If she's face camping the hook, bum rush her. She has no power near hooks and is a straight up M1 killer. If she's proxy camping, this is even easier as you can likely bait her into a chase while someone else rescues. Send someone with BT, DS or similar.
DMS is strong on Artist, but I don't think it's any stronger than other perks.
Camping overall is too effective a strategy though.
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I tried PR with DMS on wraith last night and if the survivors don’t let go of the gen when you hook someone, it not only triggers PR with 15% regression, the scream counts as them getting off and then immediately triggers DMS for the full 45 seconds AFTER losing the 15% (in this case, the block actually does not prevent it). It’s crazy.
This is part of why I’ve been saying to let go of the gen for a split second when someone’s about to get hooked so this can’t happen as easily.
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You still can not see issue my friend. I used this build on her:
BBQ + PR + DMS + Deadlock
PR is making survivor scream and gen blocked. Even if they leave gen before i hook survivor, i still will see most progression generator and i will send one of the my crows. So at this point, they can not do anything. Stay on gen and eat my crows or leave and blocked!
Killer should not be rewarded for camping. If killer is camping, you need to genrush. This tactic works against all killers but Artist has pressure while she is camping. So this is issue. And you should try yourself. You will see how much strong.
But perk is fair, i would nerf Artist. Maybe remove her snipe hits ability. So if she is camping, she can spam crows on you but she can not hit you. So you can genrush her.
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PR does not proc DMS afaik.
It absolutely does proc DMS if they are on the gen when PR procs.
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Well it's well known at this point that the PTB is more of a marketing thing than an actual bug tester.
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It's not just the drops, either. The stagger is bad enough that I can't maneuver through doors and I constantly get stuck on the environment. If this is going to stay live, killers should get as many points for bleeding out survivors as they do for hook sacrifices, because slugging is the only possible counter.
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Why was it not brought up before the update went live when multiple people who played the PTB had dozens of examples of Boil Over creating impossible situations.
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Really?
If so, then that is probably the problematic interaction in this equation.
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Yall get the YouTube content and buzz out of boil over trolling you wanted? Satisfied now?
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I mean just don't touch when killer hooks survivor?
Like that bbq locker thing.
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Many were saying it was a problem in the PTB. It’s been known since early PTB but apparently it was “fine” to release live
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Bad ? I just tested DMS with Pain Resonance and it's damn good even with another killer than Artist :)
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It was brought up the moment PTB dropped, yet it was ignored. Much like everything else 'brought before the team.' Why?
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DMS can be played around. Boil Over can't on certain maps besides pro long the game fland let the survivor bleed out
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Hard to trust their statistics when they include the 3 survivors that stay in a game with an instant DC at 5 gens. That's a totally fair game and should be counted towards your balance decisions.
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How many of your games do you get an instant DC at 5 gens. I think it's statistically insignificant.
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Any game with a DC is significant but i get it quite often with Trickster and nurse/ blight. But the big kicker was Pinhead. I would say 8/10 games had someone rage quit at some point and what do you know? he had a high kill rate causing them to nerf him.
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How you can play around while Artist is camping with DMS + PR? And ofcourse while she is spamming her crows? Tell me please.
Matches with DC are not included in the statistics. They are not affecting kill rates or anything else. They are looking normal games for balance. And i have not dc that much on my games.
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But that is an artist problem dms is fine killers deserve good and strong perks you can play around they need to some how nerf it only on artist and leave the rest alone
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Here's something that's confusing me. If Artist is sending crows she can't facecamp. Proxy camping is definitely possible but crows can't be sent out near a hooked survivor. So why doesn't someone unhook the survivor while she sends out a murder of crows?
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This is exactly what i said pal. Why Artist is problem?
She can spam crows to generators while she is camping. So you need to leave generator (it will block) or you will stay on gen and next crow will hit you. So i think DMS should not nerf, it is fine on other killers. But they should nerf Artist like this:
Artist can not snipe anymore far than 32m. I mean you can still check generators with crows. Crows still can catch survivors and they will still need to repel. But even you hit survivor with crows far than 32m, this will not be hit anymore. This will kill Artist's camp potential. She will need to leave hook for value of DMS. And if she stay on hook, survivors can do gen without risk of sniping.
She can! She will just wait near to hook, she will send crows but she will never leave hook. We are not talking about facecamp.
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Did they say the entire match or just the dc is not counted? What happens if someone disconnects during end game where 3 survivors would have escaped? Had that plenty of times against swf who refuse to lose.
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Well DC'ed games does not affect stats. If this happens, this match will be on neutrall side. But there is DC penalty, so even bad people can not do this so much. Just sometimes maybe?
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Oh yes little misunderstanding ^^
I think that would be the best they could do the only other thing they could do that isn't screwing up every other killer could be dms can't work while you are in x meters to the hook or something I don't know. Maybe they should make this the first time they simply forbit a perk for a certain killer
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It's good that you guys are monitoring the perks, but you probably should have seen the community's thoughts on how easily abusable Boil Over was during the PTB. Not to mention, the PTB is supposed to be for testing things, right? People did that and showed video evidence of the possible bs Boil Over could create.
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But if she's sending crows and leaving the hook to do so you can unhook. So wouldn't it work if Artist sends crows, survivors unhook, and then people do gens while the Artist chases a survivor? She can't send crows at every gen at the same time.
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Lets hope BHVR fix both perks.
Boil Over is okey but it is abusable on some maps. They can fix this problem with adding more hooks to this maps.
DMS is okey but it is issue on Artist. They need to look Artist for fix this problem.
But i think this will end with both perks being nerfed.
She is not far from hook while she is sending crows. And plus she is not losing distance. She can put crows, she can back hook and then she can just click ctrl for send them. You should try yourself for one game at least. You will see what i am talking about.
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