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You should NOT lose any pips if you get facecamped to death.
Devs said that facecamping is not a bannable offense, yet when you get facecamped to death, you lose a pip. What should you have done differently? Equipped DS? Not get facecamped to death first hook in the first 2 minutes of the match while none of your teammates save you? It's frustrating. If I get facecamped to death, at least don't depip me, but no; you just 4 bronze medals and depip because you "didn't get enough points". You should NOT pip or depip if you get facecamped to death.
Camping has become extremely prevalent with the new MMR system test, and it's getting on my nerves quite quickly.
Sure, camping allowed, not bannable, ok; but don't depip me either please.
Comments
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I thought with the new grade system you cant depip?
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You can't derank, that is true, but you CAN depip. ex. You CANNOT depip from Silver 4 to Bronze 1, but you CAN depip from Silver 1 all the way down to Silver 4. Depipping is still a thing, they just made it less of an issue, but still an issue regardless, as you can still lose potential bloodpoint rewards from the rank reset; that's the annoying part.
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Unpopular opinion:
You died, you lose a pip
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Have you played a single game of survivor in your life?
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Yes
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I don’t get the obsession with pips and Grades either, but to be fair they do reward a nice chunk of points per month and who am I to tell someone not to try and gain Grades?
Also I do agree that it would be nice if the devs could find a system they liked that steered killers more away from feeling like literal facecamping is an effective tactic. (I don’t personally think it usually is as good as other options but it does work in certain situations.) Really few people like the scenario of a killer standing around doing nothing for two minutes at a stretch. It’s not exciting for the killer, it’s obviously mind of lame just being on a hook that long, and the other survivor’s best strategy is work on gens as much as possible while that’s going on and going for the hook trade at the last minute. (Unless it’s a corner case of something like a Bubba that can deny a trade.) I do sometimes wonder what the game would be like if hooks had a system like Pyramid Head’s Cages where the hook disappeared into the ground and reappeared elsewhere to encourage the killer to go find a close target. Hard to judge if that would be better or worse than normal.
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Sure doesn't look like it. Play a game of survivor where you get facecamped to death from the start of the match and see how fun that is, and to add salt to the wound, let's say you're one pip away from going to Gold 4 from Silver 1 (massive difference in bloodpoint reward when rank reset hits) and then you depip for "not playing well enough".
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They should get rid of depiping for both sides
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Why? You die you're not skillful, that's how it works. :)
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Losing pips is on you for not avoiding the killer long enough to safety. I suggest working on your stealth and escaping chases rather than dragging them out.
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I don't get Face-Camped because the Killers I go against know that Face-Camping isn't a good strategy
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Then don't get facecamped?
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Honestly it's not the pip I care about but more about the items/BP.
Nothing is more annoying bringing an item with addons, maybe a map offering as you haven't seen the map in awhile and you're just camped out, basically wasting 14k BP minimum... even worse when it's my flickering ghost flashlights :(
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if you're tired of being the one camped try to be more stealthy (not immersed) and play aggressive when you notice the killer is chasing someone. I understand the frustration but there's no fix for that.
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My personal opinion is that you have not done enough in the match to earn a pip - depipping is completely fine.
Yes being camped and your team mates not helping can suck, but that's generally considered to be part of the game and there are perks to help with that - Borrowed Time for example.
(and I'm speaking from a position where I get hard camped and mori'd a lot!)
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Why even reply to this post.
That too. I'm just mad about the fact that facecamping is boring both for the survivor and the killer too, the survivor loses any items and they get barely any BP either, and the killer will pip if they somehow manage to facecamp 1 or 2 more survivors. If the killer pips from facecamping, at least don't take my pips.
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The problem here is you. Git Gud.
Everyone has gotten face camped, your not special and you do not deserve participation trophies for losing. Get better at looping and bring perks that help you stay alive. Oh you want to bring meme perks for meme builds, then you dont get to complaint about getting face camped that was your own fault for not taking the match seriously.
Your argument can be applied to the other side: Oh I shouldnt depip for getting gen rush and not getting any hooks/kills. Its not fair I was so close to gold from silver but they gen rushed me wahhhhhh. You know why you dont see this argument? its because its nonsense just like your original one is.
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Imagine caring about things that are empty and have no meaning to them. Can’t take pips to the grave with you bucko
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My opinion is you shouldn't be required to have specific perks just to counter facecamping; that's just a part of how DS and BT have become and stayed meta since they were added. If you were to bring DS and BT every match in hopes that it'll save you from facecamping, then you essentially only have 2 usable perk slots, with 2 unusable because if you get facecamped ONCE it's all gone. Sometimes perks don't even help; I have DS and BT exactly for this sole purpose, but I usually try to save a teammate off a hook because I want to be altruistic (don't tell not to be alturistic that is literally one of the objectives of the game) and not let people get bored to death, the survivor I rescue doesn't get hit because the killer is smart and then I get put on the hook and my teammates don't come save me. What do I do then? I can't even get even use DS because I can't get off the hook. What am I supposed to do? Bring Deliverance to completely remove the chances of getting facecamped? What if I get tired of the build and want to use different perks and builds that require more than 1 perk slot? IMO just seems like facecamping still cannot be defeated by perks unless you want to be incredibly boring and use the same perks constantly.
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The issue is more that it already feels bad to get facecamped, but it adds insult to injury when you get punished further for something outside of your control - and at iri ranks, it's actually quite challenging to earn those pips as is.
Don't be nasty mate, nothing in this OP or thread warranted this level of hostility.
I mainly play killer and have been working on upping my survivor game recently (800 hours versus...50? now).
It's far, far easier to reliably pip as killer. Even at iri ranks, you can pip off 2 kills - and if you don't it's generally because you played terribly.
On survivor it's entirely possible to run the killer for 3 gens, then get camped to death and still depip. The 'distraction' reward, which is supposed to credit you for gens done while you're being chased is pitiful.
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I don't even use items apart from the odd medkit - I am too much of a hoarder (read cheap), to part with my stuff lol
I think it just goes with the job :)
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I'm going to be Ben Shapiro here for a second. Let's say, hypothetically, I was the best survivor in the game, and I am the first one to get chased. Sure, I loop perfectly and everything but I bump into one thing and I am facecamped to death with 8000 points in Boldness and 0 in every other category. What then?
And not necessarily meme builds, what if you want to try a new perk to spice up the gameplay instead of DS or BT or any other second chance perk; doesn't matter, you get facecamped.
I'm not mad about the rank, I could be Ash 4 for all I care, but the bloodpoint reward helps that grind a lot, and just having that taken away from you while the killer pips up and gets a higher bloodpoint reward is just pouring salt into the wound.
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I have never once paid attention to pips and cannot understand the mind of anyone that does. I click through all that endgame stuff immediately, look at my opponent's builds, say GG and requeue. Don't care about emblems either unless it's for a rift challenge.
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What's this supposed to mean? You mean to tell me you never got angry over a videogame at least once? And while my main goal is the rank reset bloodpoint reward, facecamping is just boring to go against without any real counter if it's done at the start of the match and since it's not a bannable offense, I'd just say make it less of a pain for at least one of the two.
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You did not do enough to pip because the game design and the emblems are flawed.
If grades are to be representative of time played more than anything, then it's inconsistent that we could still depip on either role. Even more so when there's little a single player can do to survive a facecamp.
I understand you're not completely free to talk, because you still need to push the team's line.
But coming in here and telling us that getting punished by the game itself because you get facecamped is totally fine is the best way to alienate the players' sympathies.
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I understand your point, but I would say that whilst time played is pretty much the deciding factor in the end of season grade rewards - more time, the more chance for a higher grade etc. How you play also plays a part, as otherwise you could just go into the match as a survivor, not do anything at all for the entire match, die and get a pip - should that be rewarded with a pip that progresses you and adds to the end of season grade rewards?
I don't think so, and I'm speaking from my personal opinion as a player here.
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Sure, camping is good strategy in some cases, I agree. On the other hand in the scenario you described where you have one down and one already hooked right next to you then you could probably just go find a third survivor and still win the game at that point, it honestly wouldn’t matter all that much even though it technically is less optimal than standing around the two dying survivors. So if the game did move the hooks I doubt it would make much of a difference on your ultimate kill rate in those particular matches.
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You cannot depip back a grade. Once you hit Silver 1, you can only lose pips within Silver 1. The only way to hit Silver 2 during the same season is to DC.
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Something should be done about that because no matter how good you are as survivor, if you are tunneled to death, you are punished with no points, no PIPS, and lower MMR. Granted the MMR tests might yield to them completely scraping MMR which would get some applause.
It is not fair to be punished outside your control. There needs to be a lot more ways to defend against tunneling. For solo survivors especially.
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I mean I get the frustration but I don't think you know how hard it is to code the game to detect something like that.
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No. I clearly said you shouldn't depip, as it was the point of this thread. Black pipping should be the default if the grades are to be representative of time played. As it is now, the system is inconsistent with its purported function.
Pippiping up will still be tied to how one's play.
That's my whole argument. I've got nothing more to add, as this is probably not a priority for the team, considering your earlier reply makes it fairly clear they're ok with the current implementation.
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Yeah I'm sorry. I came straight of my second game in row where I got facecamped in the first 10 seconds of the game and got angrier than I usually get.
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How does one "look like it" when they're online?
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From my experience I'm actually someone that defends this game a lot towards other people and someone who can find fun in the small things - I tend to set myself sub-challenges such as getting better at Demo shred, enabling Mettle of Man, things like that.
Nonetheless, this is one I have to agree with, being facecamped and depipping is my absolute pet peeve. Especially when a while back I was trying to reach Iri I as survivor for the first time (for myself, that my goal that month and for the bloodpoints). Pipping in iridescent ranks is not easy in itself as you need to really well while your team does not actually do so well - basically you need to be everywhere: doing gens, rescuing and doing/booning totems, while also escaping a couple chases, so the game needs to be long. If the other survivors are very you might not pip. I enjoyed that challenge. The biggest problem that made nigh impossible for me were the random disconnects from the server side (definitely not my internet, it wasn't always me that got chucked from the game either but it was an issue) and the facecamping.
Ok, if the solution to reliably pipping is running Decisive, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable and Deliverance whilst making sure I am not the first one to be hooked and that I get the first unhook of the game there are two issues with that:
1) This might not be the best strategy macro game wise. I had to play very selfish to reach Grade I, if I'm honest. I'm on a gen, the killer has Ruin and a teammate is in a better position to rescue? Doesn't matter - I'll go. In fact it kind of benefits me as the gen will regress and as I go back to it I will have to do more of it, getting me more lightbringer.
2) I have nearly 900 hours in this game and there no single survivor that I actually have that combination of four perks unlocked on... I play all killers aside from Spirit as well, so I have to be selective about levelling. The grind is massive. Ironically, that is the one reason I really want to pip, the bloodpoint reward might help getting more of those perks.
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I absolutely agree with you. I played the same as you did to get to Iridescent 1. It was a struggle, probably more compared than to be selfish and escape every single time. Another point I'd like to make is, in my opinion, the Survival medal is too black and white. You either get an iridescent medal if you escape without being downed, gold if you got downed once, silver if you die after being alive in the trial for more than half the trial duration, and bronze/none if you die in less than half of the duration of the trial. To me, that seems a bit unfair. You could be doing a lot of things better than you team but you die and then you may not get a pip. IMO it could be an idea to make the survival time control more of the medal's quality. Say if you survive 3/4 of the trial and then you die, maybe get a gold instead of the silver. Writing this, I realize it may be unfair to killers, but that is why it's just an idea to think about, not that it should be that way.
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This. The problem is we get -1 pip. Remove the -1 pip and just make it be 0 pip instead, it would be much better.
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That's all I meant as well.
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I get the idea and think if you are going to stop it for this honestly where grades are simply a BP farm now de-piping makes no sense because these are no longer used to tell who you are to play with. To the point that you didn't do enough to pip or safety pip that's so dumb what if its a high mobility killer with lethal and you happen to be the one they pick? This game is so competitive and uncompetitive at the same time. For people like me who cap at gold (between 4-2 depending how hard I try) on killer but can easily skate into Iri 1as survivor I know I can get the 1m BP from survivor. If they really want to encourage players to go and play the other side I would be more willing if the grades were easier because the challenges might get me to play for a few trials and the dailies are trashed till a survivor one pops.
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You're not wrong and I don't feel it would be unfair to killers as the survivor pipping system actually doesn't need to take away from the killer. In fact, both parties can have a good match - I will actually argue that if the match was decently long and the killer got 8-9 hooks, both parties played well.
However, I'm actually OK with pipping in iridescent ranks being hard - it should be difficult to get +1/+2 to some extent. And you don't have to escape to pip. Actually, as long as the killer tries to play nicely for 8-12 hooks without tunnelling, you will probably pip. The issue is that's it's not really in your hands and I think that would be balanced by black/safety pipping. That does not mean, I would not be open to survival being adjusted a little, as most of us know that escapes don't equal skill... ;-)
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Imo, the game should put as much weight on personal performance and team performance. Rank mostly take into account personal performance, mmr doesn't take into account team performance.
What would change then:
- You're being face camped and your 3 other teammates manage to escape -> you're not penalized;
- You're sneaky for the entire game, not doing generators and waiting for your teammates to die so you can get hatch or escape through exit gates -> you're penalized.
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I'm ok with pips being hard to get in Iridescent too, it's just the lower ranks where most of the facecamps happen, that's where it'd be nicer to deal only with the facecamp and no depip.
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Popular opinion:
No.
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I believe this is incorrect. As far as I know, at worst, from silver 1 you can go all the way down to... Silver 1,with no pips. You can't drop to silver 2, let alone silver 4.
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It would be nice if there was some kind of reward for getting facecamped on the survivor side that discourages suiciding on hook. When you play with friends and a person gets facecamped, they go, "I'll hold on for as long as possible so this doesn't happen to you." In solo queue, there's a 50/50 chance of whether they'll hang on out of spite despite not getting anything or if they'll just start suiciding on hook to get to their next game faster. When they suicide, it means the primary strategy against facecamping (doing gens) doesn't really work and facecampers get an easy 2-3k with no effort and everyone having a terrible feeling match.
I understand that attempts to fix facecamping that affected gameplay, such as slowing down the hook timer, didn't work. But you could at least give rewards such as BP to people who get facecamped so there's some reason to actually give your team enough time to counter facecamping.
You could make it so that having the killer near you while on the hook for a minimum of 5 seconds (or more or less) gives you a "distraction" BP score that contributes to the survival category. That category is already the hardest to get as a survivor, it doesn't affect gameplay, and it gives a reason to stay in the game beyond just pure spite. It also accurately describes what the person is doing. If they're getting facecamped, they're acting as a distraction for the killer to allow their team to get the gens done.
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Sort of, yes.
The grading system seems to reward you most for hiding and sitting on gens, occasionally healing.
Unhooking is risky, as while you do seemingly get credit for unhooks even if you aren't the unhooker - if you unhook and that person gets tunneled through BT, you take a hefty 'unsafe unhook' penalty.
Huh. I...partially agree with Sluzzy on something. I should buy a lottery ticket.
I agree that the survivor grading system needs some tweaks to encourage running the killer and playing a little bit more boldly rather than rewarding overly 'safe' play so much, and also not penalizing you so heavily for getting focused.
However, you do have ways to defend against tunneling - and most of those ways are the other 3 survivors on your team.
This is correct as far as I know. Even at Iri 1, a catastrophic defeat (or even my very occasional 'butt queue' moment where I return to the PC and see a postgame screen) I've never dropped a grade.
This. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to stop people suiciding. DCing now...that's a different discussion.
The correct response to being facecamped is to hold fast and hope your team slams gens. I wish that you weren't actively punished for this beyond the simple boredom of being facecamped.
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I agree with you; especially as solo survivor depipping is quite often out of your control. Here's some things I do that help me that might help you.
A) As soon as I hit Iri IV every character takes Decisive Strike
B) Once I have three pips I use map offerings. The majority of the maps are survivor sided so I use offerings. At the very least, it's much harder to depip on a survivor sided map.
C) I don't run exhaustion perks most of the time and especially not before at least Gold 2. This forces me to get better at evading the killer which helps once I get Iri
D) Also, as soon as I hit three pips at Iri a med kit with good add-ons get used.
E) I wait for the killer's TR to pass or to see another survivor is being chased. and then I go to a gen. Until then, I check totem spawns so I can look for hexes and/or have the locations noted to cleanse NOED if it shows up.
F) My focus is on surviving at least nine minutes, doing at least 3 gens, and multiple heals and/or unhooks. If I escape, awesome. If I don't escape I don't care as long as I don't depip.
Once I hit Iri One I don't care what perks I run, map offerings or med kits.
Getting to Iri 1 as a solo survivor is a slog and a lot of depipping happens due to stuff out of your control so, as soon as I hit three pips, I minimize the chances of that happening.
The reason why I do all that at three pips is you're going to get strings of games where you'll just see hard camping and tunneling every game. If I worried about that at zero or one pips I'd just stop playing so only worrying about it at three pips keeps the game enjoyable for me.
Hopefully that was a bit helpful. I know some don't seem to recognize that making changes, such as eliminating depipping if grades are only meant to represent time played, would be good as it would increase enjoyment of the game and, as a video game, having fun should be a priority but I hope you find something that keeps it enjoyable for you.
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I made a mistake then. Sorry.
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Ranks (Grades) are not used for the matchmaking so it should literally make no difference. I'm usually a Silver/Gold survivor (I play more killer) but I don't escape often due to playing quite altruistic and also taking chases whenever I can so I am assuming that under an escape/kill-based MMR I'm super low MMR. So are the facecampers. This has nothing to do with with my grade though. I get killers from all colours of the rainbow. ;-)
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Thank you for these tips. I got to Iridescent 1 on both killer and survivor in one month but then I stopped playing and forgot how to play as well as I did before, so I could use these tips to my advantage.
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I dont think you should depip at al. Both as killer or survivors. Especially when I’m 1 away from iri 3 and I get 2 kills and depoip that’s bogus
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