Why is facecamping with the cannibal still a thing? Why are devs ignoring it?
I've been playing for a year now, and one thing that strikes me as odd how this is still, after all this time, this is still in the game.
When boil over was changes the developers quickly nerfed it because in some circumstances the killer had no way to hook a survivor in certain areas, they had to let the survivor bleed out if they wanted a killer.
Flash forward to the most recent patch, box camping pig was nerfed, which was probably the closest comparative to basement Bubba in the game. Survivors had no chance to live, this lasted only months before it was fixed in the latest patch.
But here we are, still being camped by a Bubba on hook with no way of countering it. His chainsaw speed and number of charges completely negate borrowed time. There nothing you can do. Oftentimes it happens within the first 60 seconds of the match, and thar unluckily survivor just spend 10 min in que just to have this happen to them and have them eliminated from the game.
Why is there double standards, why is one thing considered broken and hotfixed or patched, but this isn't. It's makes no sense and it's beyond frustrating at this point.
You see posts pleading for BhVR to change this everyday, yet they won't even acknowledge it in community streams. It makes zero sense ignore it when you're actively and aggressively removing others like it from the game.
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Switch to Killer, you'll be happier. The Devs haven't changed survivors forever and had only changed the survivor meta once in the last 4 years, with Circle of Healing.
The game is far better on the Killer side than the survivor side. It has variety, they get useful perks every patch and they don't deal with face-camping and tunneling-off-hook-till dead.
Trust me, when the developers do this meta switch up, every single survivor perk will be about as useful as Corrective Action.
The only useful thing survivors will get when the developers nuke the survivor perks will be built in borrowed time.
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*revs chainsaw*
SAW IS STRONK
SAW IS FAMILY
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Buff his chase power.
Nerf his camp power.
Both sides happy.
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Only way camping goes away is when hooks go away.
If you see a Bubba camping just leave it be. Don't be one of those survivors that crouch in one spot for 2 minutes not doing anything.
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While I haven't seen every single post ever, I have yet to hear a suggestion to nerf it that wouldn't absolutely cripple him and/or be pointless
"Don't let him rev when he's next to the hook!" Then he either stands just outside that range camping (like how Pyramid Head's camping the cages will stand 6 meters away when 5 meters is the distance to teleport survivors away; also note I don't know the exact number so that meters is my guess, not the actual number) or you make the distance so far away that you essentially take away his power (Bubba moves at 5.2 m/s when chainsawing per charge so at the very least, his powers have to be disabled for 10+ meters if you wanted to make it so he can't use his power next to the hook and that's one charge).
"Don't let his chainsaw down people when they get off the hook!". Great, like bodyblocking with BT isn't a big enough pain in the butt in normal play, now you want people to be able to just bodyblock Bubba when they get taken off the hook for however long you decide to make this (since it would have to be a time limit, not getting hit like BT since if you play your cards right with Bubba, you can chainsaw your way through BT).
"Make it so he can't use his chainsaw period when within X meters of the hooked survivor!" See the devs making the timer pause when camping with any killer when they did that big test. Shocker, it was abused to hell by SWFs who would purposefully loop their own teammates.
EDIT: Forgot a common one. Silly Tippy!
"Make it so that the chainsaw can't chain hits (so once you down someone with the chainsaw, the chainsaw stops, preventing Bubba from being able to mow through the unhooked and the unhooker)". If the chainsaw stops when you hit just one survivor, you now have a Billy except a far worse version. Why would you ever play a killer like Bubba where he has the exact same power as Billy except he can't zoom across the map like a rowdy toddler on a sugar rush in a candy store? You'd cripple the only thing that makes Bubba different from Billy (chaining chainsaw hits) and turn him into Billy except worse.
It is something that probably needs looking at but I have yet to hear a way to make it so that it doesn't either completely cripple the character, is super abusable, or both.
Post edited by tippy2k2 on14 -
Because the devs don't know how to. Plus his ability to do that is a big reason a lot of people buy him, so the devs don't really have an incentive to change that
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I did have one. Doesn't really stop it but might help if bt does get a basekit version. "The chainsaw animation stops on hit if it does not down the survivor" so to all normal cases this wouldnt change anything. But if bubba tries to chase through BT. (Which he currently can hit with the saw and catch back up especially using the speed addon) then the chainsaw will just act like a normal hit and the survivor can boost tf away. Forcing a trade at least at hook where bubba cant just hit the unhooker and the BT and just chase the survivor whos deep wounded with his chainsaw sweep and down them again.
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Bubba was given to us by the Entity to punish BT hook rushers. To understand Bubba one must remember back to the state of the game when he was born. When he was released BT still protected both unhooker and the unhooked.
His power is specifically for punishing hook rushing unsafe BT unhookers who basically farm unhooks more than trying to save anyone, lets be honest. In soloq they farming unsafe unhooks all day for tomes.
All killers can camp, what irks survs about Bubba is they cant do it in his face. Or at least without some punishment. If you notice they want BT basekit for same reason, more unsafe unhooks.
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Damn, I actually just thought of that one and I was just about to edit my response. I still will edit it but I feel dumb for forgetting one :D
If the chainsaw stops when you hit just one survivor, you now have a Billy except a far worse version. Why would you ever play a killer like Bubba where he has the exact same power as Billy except he can't zoom across the map like a rowdy toddler on a sugar rush in a candy store?
For your particular thing (assuming I understand it right), that goes into my "Don't let him chainsaw people off the hook thing". BT blocking is annoying enough as it is and if you make it so that the chainsaw stops when you hit a BT person (because it would stop when you hit a survivor that it doesn't down if I understand you correctly, right?), that's going to make BT Blocking even more annoying than it currently is.
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Because Boil Over caused a issue that hurt survivors more than killers. Everyone was slugged and no one had fun with Boil Over.
Now in regard of Bubba, its hard to escape the chainsaw, if your teammates don´t know what to do. But if they have BT, then escaping is possible.
Oh and Bubba doesn´t remove you from the match. Only selfish survivors, that instantly suicide do that.
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Hmm. If the bubba is really facecamping though wouldn't the saw always down the unhooker first because of unhook invincibility on the survivor being unhooked? So the only way the BT user could block the saw fast enough is if bubba misstimed it? You did read it correct though!
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They’re not ignoring it, they explicitly said a couple of times they have worked on finding a way to steer killers away from face camping but the mechanisms they tried all either didn’t have an impact or broke something else in the process. Personally I suspect, for instance, that internally they used Pyramid Head’s system where the Cages move to remote locations as a pilot test for moving survivors on hooks around as well but that experiment didn’t pan out for some reason. And before that they tried putting in a penalty on emblem pips if a killer hangs around a hook which obviously has zero impact since most people who facecamp couldn’t really care less about the effect on their pips during a match.
So yes, they do want to find a way to steer killers away from thinking lengthy face camping is a viable option. It’s just not obvious what solution actually works.
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It's hard to say for sure. In theory, I believe you are correct in that if you are face camping (actual face camping), you'd always hit the unhooker first but DBD does weird things sometimes when it comes to who gets hit first.
I suppose I've never facecamped with Bubba (well that's not true, I facecamped one person, a subtle cheater and I was making sure they weren't getting away to keep doing their subtle cheating crap but no one tried to save them so I never had to chainsaw them) so I'm more concerned with when I watch a unhooker run to the hooked and save them in my face when I haven't been allowed to take three steps from the hooked person. So I guess with your idea, I'm less concerned with people who are actually face camping and more concerned with the "side effects" of punishing innocent Bubbas who are just coming back to the hook to chainsaw someone farming a fellow survivor.
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I hear you man, just like SWF using voice comms, coming to matches to cheat the noob Trapper. Sad.
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Forcing killers to send their hooked survs across map destroys any strategic hooking of survs like in a 3 gen. Sometimes as Pyra one of the worst things you can do is cage someone when you should hook them in your 3 gen.
The last thing you want as a killer is protecting gens and send your hoooked down across map. Thats why.
In addition, punishing killers for being near hook is abused by survs during testing, devs found survs will stay near hook to force killers into a no win situation, survs will ALWAYS rush a hook to penalize a killer for being there.
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I guess that's an "agree to disagree" thing.
While you're not wrong, they would still be a little different, to me the incredible amount that you would nerf Bubba would make him just a considerably worse version of Billy. You're not wrong that there is still a slight difference in power and Bubba is easier to use even in this situation, the drop in ability would be so great that I would see no real reason to ever use Bubba over Billy if you had it so that the chainsaw would only hit one survivor and stop dead.
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Fair. Was the best idea i had. Seems good in practice for actual facecamping, but like you said if the bubbas any distance away the BT could just tank the saw. Was just throwing the idea out there.
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Which is fine, I'd honestly love for someone to come up with an idea that I can't poke a hole through because it is something that would be wonderful for BHVR to fix :)
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That could certainly be the reason they didn’t do the Cage system for hooks, we’ll never know. 🤷♂️
On a tangent with Pyramid Head though his Cages are usually worth using overall since they save you about 10 seconds of carry time on average which is a huge chunk of time to get into a new chase. It’s the equivalent of slugging someone to save time to get into a chase versus hooking them except you get the added benefit of locking in a hook state as well. Sometimes I think Pyramid Head players opt to hook when they should still Cage simply because they’re trying to safe the Cage “to avoid DS” or are overly worried about the Cage being near another survivor, etc. Unless the alternative is better than giving you 10 extra seconds of free time though you should Cage.
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You cannot compare the Pig camping a box to Bubba camping a hook.
The issue with Piggy was that she could use an addon, then AFK in front of a box - do nothing at all, and still get a kill. Bubba at least has to chase and hook survivors.
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The Pig afk thing is obviously an even more ridiculous situation. That said, obviously there are good reasons to, if there is a way, systematically steer killers away from thinking that standing in place at a hook for two minutes is a viable strategy. I just don’t know what sort of system would be a good way to do that without breaking something.
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How? So you mean you will be able to only loop the rock 5 times instead of 8 after that buff in chase power?
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An easy solution would be to not get hooked
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Bubba’s chainsaw doesn’t need a buff, good Bubba players can chase just fine. Face camping is really a meme more than a necessity with him.
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There’s no skill involved when certain Bubba players only facecamp hooks. It’s not abusive but something needs to be done to discourage this.
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Can't wait until they remove his facecamping to make the game more fun for survivors! The really good Bubbas will be just fine and won't even notice the nerfs whereas the camping Bubbas will have to switch over to Trickster
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Devs have no idea what direction they want to take the game in. Things like how moris and keys used to be, current face camping, awful maps, super op things still in the game on both sides...those all would have been fixed or gotten rid of a long time ago in different games.
It even took them months and months to "fix" old legion. He was game-breakingly broken and it took months for them to even acknowledge it.
I lost all hope when they "fixed" the Huntress's Red one-shot addon by putting a one hatchet restriction on it. It was never a fun or balanced addon, and rather than changing it to something at least fun, they nerfed it so no one would ever use it.
It is quite sad how much potential this game has, but how far away they still are from peak balance/fun.
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What people seem to forget is they already removed facecamping.
It’s no longer possible to block the hook and prevent people from unhooking, that was true face camping.
You gotta learn to play around the saw. It’s hard but not impossible.
Half the time I get accused of camping because I turn my back and some survivor is rushing in for the unhook after I’ve only taken 2 steps away.
I remember a time when survivors would wait and/or hook exchange and not make stupidly bold plays that get themselves killed but those days are over it seems.
If bubba is camping smash out gens and then go for a hook exchange.
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Thank you, I have grown tired of saying it.
Facecamping was removed from the game with the addition of swivel hooks. The ability to block an unhook by standing face-to-face with a surv was removed, now they call EVERYTHING facecamping.
"devs ignore facecamping" bros, it was addressed in 2017
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You can’t do that against basement Bubbas and BT is not even gonna save you. It’s more broken when they use gen slowdown I mean sure sometimes you can crank out the gens but that’s not gonna work most of the time.
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While I don't disagree with this, and I'm very glad boxblocker Pig got handled quickly, I do question how reasonable it is to say "just don't get caught" in regards to Bubba, because that's what this boils down to. The game is designed for survivors to go down eventually, and if a single chase lasts for the time it takes three other survivors to do five generators and open up the gates, something has gone horribly wrong with matchmaking or map design.
I don't think it's healthy that he gets so much payoff for so little effort. He can guarantee a kill off one chase, and unless he's going against comms, he'll typically get a 3-4k due to someone in the group not getting the memo and either wasting time or suiciding trying to extract his camp. Add in Deadlock/Ruin/NWO and you've got a mess on your hands. This strat pays off so well that the vast majority of Bubbas I encounter use it, and it's relatively rare to verse a Bubba that goes off and chases someone else after a hook. That's the real issue here - that his camping is frequently more lucrative than going and playing the game as intended. I've come to dread versing him despite him being a really fun and well-designed killer in chase. It's not interactive gameplay and I should hope it's on BHVR's radar for some changes.
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I have hundreds of hours on Bubba alone, and as killer main made a YT video, How to beat Basement Bubba and Escape without getting hit - YouTube
Wanna know the strat? I sat on gens and ran to gate,... what did my teammates do? Went throw themselves at Bubba in the basement.
I made it out without getting hit, now tell me how its impossible. Match lasted barely 5 mins and i was out
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If you made it out despite your teammates throwing themselves into the meat grinder, then this happened when there were maybe 2 gens remaining and the Bubba wasn't running game delay perks. You'll get a gen and a half done in the time it takes for someone to die on hook and you cannot expect me to believe that you completed several gens while Bubba was roaming around the map looking for you.
I don't know how you expect me to get anything other than hatch when the solo queue parade marches off at 4 gens or the first victim gets mad and kills themselves on hook.
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vid is now linked in post above, I did 3 gens the team did 2.
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You can't hook trade against a Leatherface, he downs both survivors even through Borrowed Time.
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Yes, do this. Then survivor queue times will shrink and I'll get to play survivor more.
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Not bad. Checking it out - I think the main things I note are that your teammates didn't go and throw themselves into Bubba's arms until there were 2 gens left, which would make the situation livable for you unless they all suicided, since that's enough time to do the final gens. They also got a lucky break with that kobe while Bubba was going to pick up the third person. They weren't helping on gens, but they kept the Bubba occupied beyond just hook timers instead of letting him come to you at the very end. Also, I'd guess the Bubba was running Agi/IG/NOED, which isn't nearly as effective as NWO/Deadlock/Ruin (though AGI/IG/NOED is more common than the maximum delay build and worth using as an example.) No Way Out in particular is nasty because you then have to cross the map to the other gate without being spotted (as Bubba will investigate your gate thoroughly and assume you're lurking nearby when he doesn't find you), and if it's post-hatch, you only have 60 seconds to get those gates open.
You made the right play - I would have been tempted to pick up that slug in the middle of the road given how many people were up versus how many gens were left, but someone else got him so it's all gucci - but you also had favorable conditions and you never had to hide from him or escape chase. I got a good chuckle out of the Bubba's name, though.
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oh I know I was a tad bit lucky there in how the events unfolded, but I play enough Bubba to know if you in the basement, I am staying on gens, every second counts.
Many will go crouch nearby and waste time, time is what you are up against as much as the chainsaw. Match was 5 mins, if it was 7 I might have gotten killed.
And LOL at name, I had forgotten about that and it fits well with vid hahah
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Half the time the auto aim ( yes this game does have auto aim) pulls you to a diffrent survivor when you're trying to hit someone specific. More often than not, that's what happens in an immediate down after hook.
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I would actually say the effort is about the same. I went 40 games straight of just face-camping with Bubba just to prove that being able to face-camp is rewarding. I got above a 3.0 kill rate.
This really tells me how out-of-touch with the survivor community that developers are, that they continue to defend this playstyle. (Since you represent the developers, I assume this is how the developers feel).
It's a completely miserable experience for survivors and the developers aren't able to see this as a problem. How did the developers get so out-of-touch with 4/5s of the player base? It's disturbing.
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It's funny how both sides are saying that developers are out of touch with their side and other side has it better.
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Because bhvr cares about fun and interaction.
You should privileged and honored that such an attractive alpha male decides to allow you to admire his sheer beauty and masculinity from a first-row seat.
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I play both sides and have recently switched fully to killer. BHVR genuinely is out of touch with the survivor side.
Think about it, they haven't updated survivor game play since the game has come out, it's the exact same as the first day of the game. Nothing new.
And look at survivor meta perks. The only new meta perk in 4 years (Again that is 4 years), was Circle-of-Healing and it's been nerfed 4 times.
Face-camping and tunneling-off-hook-till-dead, both catastrophic game-design flaws, have existed since the games inceptions. Still here.
And come on, Face-Camping Bubba. How can you justify that in a game.
This isn't, hey, make survivor OP. This is players genuinely wanting unfun, toxic elements that completely prevent players from playing the game, fixed.
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I think both this and the double locker flashlight save are the two things I find most disgusting on both sides and that should really be looked onto by the devs.
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I really do feel a solution to face-camping would require Survivors to do certain interaction on the map in order to have easier time rescuing a Survivor.
Not exactly "Portal that acts like Cage" or stuff like that. But you need to be careful with trigger conditions AND time required to do so. Otherwise, it gets abused or the interaction is faster than just travel time to Hook and direct rescue.
I'm trying to think more of "Active Interaction" to change face-camping instead of "X thing is passive" deal. I think that would've been pretty fair compromise for each side.
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AFK Pig was way more situational than face camping Bubba though.
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One thing that should be changed in regards to face camping is the "Unhook face off."
Every time I find myself in a situation where a survivor is facing off with a killer directly next to the hook, just waiting...who's gonna grab who first...it's so dumb. I'd rather just take the hit and hook trade at that point.
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This. Facecamping Bubba is a mindset. A way of life. People don't do it because they think it's the only optimal way to use this killer.
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HA!
Yer funny my guy, ngl to ya...
Sorry but if you become killer, you'll experience bs and hell on earth, then you get to deal with the 4 man swfs once you start having too much fun,
Oh and this game is Faaaar from being on the killer's side,
Game has, and always will be Survivor Sided =D
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You should just ask why is camping still a thing in games overall it's not just dbd that has a camping issue and no matter what you do it's still gonna be there.
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