One of the biggest problems with the Legion

@Janick said:
Hello

I will not enter into an in deep discussion on this thread but I would like to say that saying Perks do NOT Work on the legion is an overstatement as we make sure that all perks work accordingly on all Killers. Some might not be as effective simply because the killer is beneficiating from a better effect from his Power.

For balance sake, it is important that the Killer Power is balanced with everything that is already put in the game. Unfortunately, we have older content that is not perfectly balanced with newer content added in. Those unbalance instance will be revisited at some point. One thing we now keep in mind is that any effect specific to a Killer Power should not be totally countered by a specific Perk build.

Thank you!

Im sorry not to be rude but on some killers perks dont work at all, I mean yes tinkerer was changed to work for all killers but freddy, overcharge is awful on and same with deerstalker and unnerving presence, also insidious doesnt work on him

@se05239 said:
Probably the killer with the least build variation in the entire game. Doesn't help his already weak-ass situation.

which is why either his ability needs to be changed to work with them or the perks

@Janick said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@Janick said:
Hello

I will not enter into an in deep discussion on this thread but I would like to say that saying Perks do NOT Work on the legion is an overstatement as we make sure that all perks work accordingly on all Killers. Some might not be as effective simply because the killer is beneficiating from a better effect from his Power.

For balance sake, it is important that the Killer Power is balanced with everything that is already put in the game. Unfortunately, we have older content that is not perfectly balanced with newer content added in. Those unbalance instance will be revisited at some point. One thing we now keep in mind is that any effect specific to a Killer Power should not be totally countered by a specific Perk build.

Thank you!

Im sorry not to be rude but on some killers perks dont work at all, I mean yes tinkerer was changed to work for all killers but freddy, overcharge is awful on and same with deerstalker and unnerving presence, also insidious doesnt work on him

I cannot talk much about Freddy, but we definitely plan to revisit his design. These will obviously be taken into consideration, we will make sure that all perks work properly on him.

I hope so, he is an interesting killer but good-ish perks are not the best on him, but I may have a ability change for him if I think about it long enough

@Janick said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@Janick said:
Hello

I will not enter into an in deep discussion on this thread but I would like to say that saying Perks do NOT Work on the legion is an overstatement as we make sure that all perks work accordingly on all Killers. Some might not be as effective simply because the killer is beneficiating from a better effect from his Power.

For balance sake, it is important that the Killer Power is balanced with everything that is already put in the game. Unfortunately, we have older content that is not perfectly balanced with newer content added in. Those unbalance instance will be revisited at some point. One thing we now keep in mind is that any effect specific to a Killer Power should not be totally countered by a specific Perk build.

Thank you!

Im sorry not to be rude but on some killers perks dont work at all, I mean yes tinkerer was changed to work for all killers but freddy, overcharge is awful on and same with deerstalker and unnerving presence, also insidious doesnt work on him

I cannot talk much about Freddy, but we definitely plan to revisit his design. These will obviously be taken into consideration, we will make sure that all perks work properly on him.

I recently made a post on Freddy, I don't think he needs a full rework but more of a few QoL buffs. I thought of a few drastic changes but it's not completely changing his power. Anyways I'm happy you guys are looking at Freddy and as a Freddy main I appreciate the rework.

@Janick said:
Hello

We think that Perks should mostly affect your M1 mode as a killer and not buff your power (to a certain extend at least)

Question: the Legion can't benefit from the exposed status effect on survivors while using their power, but the Nurse can. The Nurse is well known for being in absolute the strongest killer, and if there is one whose power is a "free hit" it's her. What's the logic behind this?
I can understand the potential to hit 4 survivors in one frenzy would make NOED and Devour Hope OP, but wouldn't be enought to add the condition that downing a survivor ends the frenzy?

To be fair, as soon as survivors gain a reason to heal themselves some perks will get more reliable. And exposed works at least with their M1.

@Janick said:

@alivebydeadight said:

@se05239 said:
Probably the killer with the least build variation in the entire game. Doesn't help his already weak-ass situation.

which is why either his ability needs to be changed to work with them or the perks

Hello

We have no plan to alter his base movement speed, not at the moment at least. His Frenzy is basically a free hit, him being at normal killer speed was very problematic during development and very unbalanced. There are a few tweaks coming on him for the live update. These will be announced soon by NotQueen. Stay tuned, thank you!

Well that I'm looking forward to that post. But I will stay sceptic. Everything I read about the killer, feels like they are a nightmare to balance.

@Janick said:

@White_Owl said:

@Janick said:
Hello

We think that Perks should mostly affect your M1 mode as a killer and not buff your power (to a certain extend at least)

Question: the Legion can't benefit from the exposed status effect on survivors while using their power, but the Nurse can. The Nurse is well known for being in absolute the strongest killer, and if there is one whose power is a "free hit" it's her. What's the logic behind this?
I can understand the potential to hit 4 survivors in one frenzy would make NOED and Devour Hope OP, but wouldn't be enought to add the condition that downing a survivor ends the frenzy?

Hello

Our reasoning is because it's very much too easy to get a hit with the Legion power, compare to the Nurse. NOED with his power is simply the end of the game and felt very unfair.

I hear everything you are saying and I don't disagree. But can't there be some kind of middle ground? Like where exposed does something when legion is using his power? For instance, if a survivor is exposed and currently injured then Legion can down them while using his power. Or if the survivor is healthy but exposed and legion hits them using his power then they get deep wounds with half the timer missing. It still wouldn't be a free slaughterfest for Legion, but at least exposed would matter.

@Scgamecock86 said:
Hello

I dont understand why making their base movement speed faster would be so OP? Billy and leatherface both have 1 hit down capabilities but no downfall on their movement speed. Like what they said on the stream was the biggest thing, "legion has a hard time closing the deal." Yea it might be easy to run around and hit a bunch of survivors on the first hit, but then you got a stun while you are watching the survivor run from you, then you got slower movement speed to try and catch back up. I understand why, huntress spirit hag nurse etc has slower movement speed. I've thought since day 1 of the ptb, 2 changes minimum would make legion more scary besides a laughingstock of survivors. And if you have 4 people running no mither in a match, they literally have no fear of the killer. My 2 changes would be, make them same speed as Billy, and mending should be considered healing, I mean if you look up mend right now see what the definition is. I also feel like mending should not be affected by sloppy butcher, but you should be able to see someone healing or mending or snapping out if it with no. Basically mending and snapping out of it should be close to the same...skill checks and all. You say that the way yall tested the legion wasn't fun in its original state, well me hitting a bunch of survivors over and over and not being able to catch them,(if they are good), is not to fun for me to play.

i agree to 100%. everyone who plays this game thinks he same way. i dont understand what the guys who tested it thought this is now a good and fun killer. im actually shocked.

I feel like if you get rid of the double stun and allow Legion to see people Mending (for a short amount of time; maybe don't pause the Deep Wound timer while mending), this would make him a little better. Just my thoughts.

@Janick said:

@White_Owl said:

@Janick said:
Hello

We think that Perks should mostly affect your M1 mode as a killer and not buff your power (to a certain extend at least)

Question: the Legion can't benefit from the exposed status effect on survivors while using their power, but the Nurse can. The Nurse is well known for being in absolute the strongest killer, and if there is one whose power is a "free hit" it's her. What's the logic behind this?
I can understand the potential to hit 4 survivors in one frenzy would make NOED and Devour Hope OP, but wouldn't be enought to add the condition that downing a survivor ends the frenzy?

Hello

Our reasoning is because it's very much too easy to get a hit with the Legion power, compare to the Nurse. NOED with his power is simply the end of the game and felt very unfair.

I can undersrand if you don't want a killer on a similar level with the Nurse when using NOED or DH. Still, I find it strange that one of Legion perks gives the exposed status if he can't fully utilize it since they should not use their power and would just get looped until the effect expires thanks to the "lower" speed. I think the exposed effect should still do something.

Unnamed_Freak said:

The Legion has many issues that makes them a bad killer, but this thread is about to discuss one of the biggest issues about'em.
Inability to use perks. Almost no perk of the killer pool works with them, so I will describe what perks are useful and the ones that aren't.

A Nurse's Calling : Mending is not considered a healing action so you can't see survivors mending, plus no one heals against the Legion since their power is not lethal.

Agitation : Agitation works on all killers so it's decent

Bamboozle : It's okay since it blocks the windows, the only downside of it is that it doesn't block pallets.

Barbecue & Chilli : It's a fantastic perk on every killer but the Legion, since they can't down survivors they will hardly get any stack of the perk.

Beast of Prey : It's a pointless perk on all killers so yeah.

Bitter Murmur : It's Bitter Murmur. It works on very single killer.

Bloodhound : It's only useful if you're doing the moonwalk build, other than that it's pointless.

Blood Warden : They can't down survivors, so it's pointless.

Brutal Strength : It's pointless because you never break pallets, instead you are vaulting them.

Coulrophobia : There's three points why it doesn't work. 1) You don't have a large Terror Radius. 2) Mending doesn't count as a healing action. 3) No one is going to heal against you.

Deerstalker : You can't down someone so it's pointless.

Discordance : Now this perk iso very good on them, since you probably gonna get 2 hits on your frenzy. But I think this perk can be decent on every killer.

Distressing : It's decent because you can see survivors from far away, but
probably you will never reach'em.

Dying Light : You can't down survivors, so it's pointless, even more because it requires you to hook the obsession three times, one with a mori.

Enduring : It's pretty hard to get stunned with them, and it doesn't affect the fatigue, so it's pointless.

Fire Up : Fire Up is garbage so whatever.

Franklin's Demise : This is one of the best perks on the Legion, you will hit survivors many times. But it's a gimmicky perk.

Insidious : Why...

Iron Grasp : Again, good on every killer.

Hangman's Trick : It's situational, so not that useful.

Hex : Devour Hope : The Exposed effect doesn't apply to Frenzy so it's pointless, and if you get five stacks, good luck trying to down someone.

Hex : Haunted Ground : Again, Exposed doesn't apply in Frenzy.

Hex : Huntress Lullaby : You can't down survivors, so, again, it's pointless.

Hex : No One Escapes Death : Again, Exposed doesn't apply in Frenzy.

Hex: Ruin : It's good on every killer, so yeah.

Hex : The Third Seal : Actually, this is one of the best perks on the Legion, you can easily hit all the four survivors. But again it's a Hex perk, it can be taken down.

Hex : Thrill of The Hunt : It's decent on every killer, so whatever.

Iron Maiden : Again, the exposed status effect doesn't apply to Frenzy.

Knock Out : It would be decent if you could down someone, but you can't, so it's pointless.

Lightborn : uh... you can use it if someone has a flashlight, I guess.

Mad Grit : It's so situational, that it makes wanna kill myself.

Make Your Choice : All the "exposed doesn't apply to Frenzy" stuff.

Monitor & Abuse : This is one of the best perks on them, you are harder to notice out of a chase, and in a chase you can cover a bigger area in Frenzy.

Monstrous Shrine : Why would you ever use this perk.

Overcharge : It's Overcharge so it's okay.

Overwhelming Presence : You don't have a large Terror Radius.

Play With Your Food : by the time you get all the stacks you will lose them in one Frenzy.

Pop Goes The Weasel : 1) You can't down survivors. 2) You are too slow to reach a generator.

Predator : Eh... It's Predator.

Rancor : The thing about exposed not applying on Frenzy. Good luck trying to down the obsession.

Remember Me : It's meh on them, since you suffer a double stun. But you probably will have all the stacks.

Save The Best For Last : People thought that it's was going to be good on them, but the only time you will attack someone without your power is for down them, which makes the perk useless.

Shadowborn : You can use it, I guess.

Sloppy Butcher : Again, mending doesn't count as a healing action and survivors never heal against you.

Spies From The Shadows : Nope.

Spirit Fury : You will never break pallets and it's pretty rare to get stunned.

Stridor : It's decent.

Surveillance : LOL.

Territorial Imperative : Useless on them.

Tinkerer : Horrible.

Thanatophobia : It would be good on them if the perk wasn't garbage.

Unnerving Presence : You don't have a large Terror Radius.

Unrelenting : First off, why would you run this perk, second it's pointless since you have a reduced attack cooldown in Frenzy.

Whispers : It's alright.

So of 54 perks , the Legion can only use 15 perks, with most of them not being that good.

It's a large issue because you don't have many options of builds, while killers like Doc, Spirit, Billy, Wraith etc, can use so many perks that makes the Legion less interesting. Hell, even Freddy and LeatherFace have a large amount of builds, while Legion has so little opportunities for builds.

Anyway, give your comments about it.
Sorry for any grammar error.

https://youtu.be/QbjyMjw6gHA

White_Owl said:

@Janick said:
Hello

We think that Perks should mostly affect your M1 mode as a killer and not buff your power (to a certain extend at least)

Question: the Legion can't benefit from the exposed status effect on survivors while using their power, but the Nurse can. The Nurse is well known for being in absolute the strongest killer, and if there is one whose power is a "free hit" it's her. What's the logic behind this?
I can understand the potential to hit 4 survivors in one frenzy would make NOED and Devour Hope OP, but wouldn't be enought to add the condition that downing a survivor ends the frenzy?

@Freudentrauma said:

@White_Owl said:

@Janick said:

@White_Owl said:

@Janick said:
Hello

We think that Perks should mostly affect your M1 mode as a killer and not buff your power (to a certain extend at least)

Question: the Legion can't benefit from the exposed status effect on survivors while using their power, but the Nurse can. The Nurse is well known for being in absolute the strongest killer, and if there is one whose power is a "free hit" it's her. What's the logic behind this?
I can understand the potential to hit 4 survivors in one frenzy would make NOED and Devour Hope OP, but wouldn't be enought to add the condition that downing a survivor ends the frenzy?

Hello

Our reasoning is because it's very much too easy to get a hit with the Legion power, compare to the Nurse. NOED with his power is simply the end of the game and felt very unfair.

I can undersrand if you don't want a killer on a similar level with the Nurse when using NOED or DH. Still, I find it strange that one of Legion perks gives the exposed status if he can't fully utilize it since they should not use their power and would just get looped until the effect expires thanks to the "lower" speed. I think the exposed effect should still do something.

I think Legion can't search lockers while in frenzy. So quick jumping into a locker to avoid a frenzy hit, might be a way to avoid DW, because you can safely jump out while Legion is stunned by their ability and will most likely only get a one time hit.
I guess for such situations, iron maiden is a counter. Even though it doesn't make that much sens. Otherwise frenzy gives Legion a decent mobility. When they see iron maiden to be triggered, they might be able to sprint with frenzy close to the survivors and get the hit. Maybe...

Actually during the Frenzy you can do everything except breaking pallets, even pick up downed survivors and opening lockers.