Dev Update: April 2024 PTB Changes; Thoughts?
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Kid named plot twist, you go down with DS, so either they slug and you get healed to full back or they pick you up and get DS, nice counter mate.
However in that case the correct option is to eat the DS, and if Im being honest this change doesnt do much, why? Because you should normally tunnel the weak link, and pub warriors are so bad at the game even if they got a DS at a jungle gym they will go down in less than a minute.
This change is incredibly unbalance for good survivors but since they are as rare as twins players for soloq its ok.
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So we still get an unnecessary Adrenaline nerf, again a half-baked DS, another entirely trashed map. Devs never fail to undercut expectations.
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It kinda seems like you were gonna do that regardless.
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I had high hopes for this ptb and I'm sad that the Twins rework was a failure but I'm glad BHVR was sensible enough to roll it back.
Don't really care about the rest of the PTB for the most part.
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I currently don’t always tunnel off the hook, especially if I find someone else while a survivor is hooked.
But when 5 second DS is live, it won’t matter if I’m in a chase or not, because when I hear that unhook noise, I should run right over to that hook, so I can tunnel that survivor, just in case they might want to weaponize DS against me.
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That is also a good choice.
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They handled Twins fine I guess, not sure why such a strong killer needed so many buffs though (actually I know why). Their treatment of Blight seems as tone deaf as ever. The problem wasn't that the 2 new addons were too strong and needed their effect to be halved, the problem was that they are yet another bland movement speed addons, replacing unique and interesting addons. And don't get me started on their stubbornness to remove hug tech while ignoring the stupidity of his double iri combo.
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idk, Tricksters release featured a survivor who had an Exhaustion perk related to pallets and that update made dropping pallets entirely useless.
The bar can always go lower.
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perfect gif lol
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Very concerning there was no mention of Haddonfield. They cannot let it go live as that tiny dead zone.
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They finally understood what the issue was with Ultimate Weapon. Good change.
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Why will DS not be great? It's now back the way it was before it's nerf, except for working during end game. Obviously it won't fix the tunneling problem that DBD has, but for a perk it will be good I believe, and will at least help with tunneling.
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The thing is back then DS was actually respected by Killers (not by all tho). And even back then it would have been the best to just eat it and tunnel the Survivor out.
But since they nerfed it to 3 seconds tunneling just increased a lot because there was no measurements which made Killers fear when they tunnel. DS might be back to 5 seconds, but every Killer knows by now that tunneling one Survivor out is just the best thing to do. So I guess most will just eat the DS and then tunnel again.
In the end, it is still not a good Anti-Tunnel tool and it took far too long for the Devs to just revert the uneccessary Nerf from a few years ago. They could have done more, there were more than enough solid ideas around.
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Welp, the only good thing I got out of The Twins "change" is that since Cody Rhodes finished his story at Wrestlemania, I now have another underdog who needs to finish their story and get a decent change...
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Ah, you are right there. I misread "the locker" as "a locker"
So the perk is dead then. Which doesn't change much. I still stand by that the CURRENT version of UW is actually a bad perk.
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I wouldn't have minded more, like it working for each hook stage, but I wouldn't call it a bad anti-tunnel tool in any way or form. I believe it will help.
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I mean, it is obviously better than before, because it is now a flat buff instead of a weird compensation for a strange animation. But you have to remember that back then Killers were also weaker and some maps were stronger. 5 seconds back then were most likely more valuable than 5 seconds now.
And they still did not do anything to fix that the Perk is nothing for the strong Killers but affects the weak Killers more.
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Adrenaline just did too much even if the condition was the game reaching endgame (a balanced match of dbd should be reaching endgame). When survivors would just afk 3 stack on a gen and pop it in your face for a health state + 5s sb the endgame was just over for you. All that pressure you applied ends up meaning little because they made the play of monkeying the gen in front of the killer. Just another problem with stacking multiple of the same perk.
Post edited by LeFennecFox on0 -
They should have kept Ultimate weapon as it is.
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It takes YEARS for developers to make interesting changes to killers or the game in general only to not add those changes on live servers (this case), like... why announce a killer rework so far in advance only to have it be a garbage rework. They had MONTHS. And not only in the characters. It took 8 years to add two modifiers, which turned out to be interesting but not quite. What's wrong with the slow and bad development of this game? Why do they announce changes so far in advance if they are going to make it this bad? There are thousands of changes that the community has been asking for years and they are still not here (seeing teammates perks for example, or seeing the challenges by pressing ESC). It took them 8 YEARS to add a bar to search for perks. Seriously this company has licenses like Alien, Resident Evil, Scream, Hallowen? Because it feels like a company with no money, little passion and little commitment to have this kind of licenses, it's a waste.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
The devs need to know that we’re not their QA testers.
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Yeah I have to agree. The pace they balance this game is shockingly slow.
We waited years for Twins changes that ended up just being small QoL changes that should have been implemented since their release.
DS changes were listed on the road map months ago and it’s just a number changes that shouldn’t have taken that long. I know it could’ve been due to the animation that they’ve now removed but couldn’t they have increased the timer and then tested the animation at a later time?
They said ages ago Freddy was on the list for changes and we still have no idea when to expect that or if it’s even going to be more than QoL fixes.
They’ve been listening a lot lately and that’s amazing but they do really need to release balance changes faster, especially small changes that shouldn’t take months to implement.
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Basically
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So lets see..
Twins: I mean I get it right. It was bad but it's crazy to me that this was planned for more than a year and it basically all is gone. Reminds me of the time with the whole ui thing.
Blight: I mean sure I guess. This seems kinda bad but it is blight so I'm sure they'll do fine.
Decisive Strike: I've said this before and I'll say it again. This change won't do much against the stronger killers and only will do anything against weaker killers which will definitely reduce the variety of played killers even if it's just a little. It also can still absolutely be used aggressively which isn't good at all.
Ultimate Weapon: Bro this perk is so weak now. It doesn't say the perk duration and cooldown was changed so I'm also assuming it has a 60 sec cooldown still. It also has a range of 32 which isn't terrible but that isn't that big. The current version is too good, the ptb version is too good on strong killers, and now this version just is bad.
I find it odd that there was no haddonfield changes considering how many people complained about it.
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Please include all changes in the patch notes. Can't you do something as simple as that?
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I don't understand this logic - either the logic of posting it in the first place, or the logic of what you say you plan on doing.
By going on the forums and loudly proclaiming your intent to tunnel as a direct result of this change, it seems as if you're trying to guilt someone for having done the change. The entire community knows "tunneling" has a negative connotation, so going out of your way to say you plan on doing it is clearly a pointed act. Maybe that's not what you mean, but it looks like you're saying "take that, survivors! next time you'll think twice before existing in a game where devs buffed one of your perks," regardless of actual intent behind it.
Beyond that, tunneling everyone off hook all the time to prevent them from using DS aggressively gives people who run DS a chance to use their DS. People who do not run DS will simply die, because they did not have DS. your strategy would thus punish people for not doing the exact thing you say you're trying to prevent.
Like, you're trying to do something here, and I'm sure you have decent logic behind it (I'd love you to explain what that logic is) but all I can garner from this post is "how dare you have the audacity to have the devs buff this perk? I'll make you regret not using it!" I'd love to see where I misunderstood.
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Seems a bit counter-productive tbh. If the person has DS then you're reaffirming their decision to equip the perk. If the person doesn't have DS then you're basically giving them a reason to start equipping it.
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I don't see the harm in looking for ways to fix cases in which DS abused though. Let's say, that you are correct and it doesn't change anything, would DS become weaker if it deactivated when you take a protection hit 15 seconds or more after the unhook has happened?
I'd have no issue with buffing DS even further as long as there is a way to not have it used against you. Give it Bond's effect map wide so that you can avoid running into your team mates, pause the timer as long as that survivor is on the ground, give it a 7 seconds stun for all I care but get rid of situations in which it is used aggressively. Does that sound like enough of a compensation?
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So, the S tier Victor got changed back to normal. I'm fine with that. Although the 10% Haste for Charlotte didn't have to be changed, but whatever.
Blight's collision is something I don't understand so I can't judge it. The addons could've stayed as they were before.
Haddonfield still sucks. For survivors.
Ds animation got removed and, yeah. I agree. Come back when it's better.
Adrenaline nerfs still stayed the same. Didn't use it anyway.
Ultimate Weapon got nerfed even more. Glad I didn't buy it from the shrine.
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Wasn't one of the changes the option to recall him back at any time?
Or does it only apply when he is not latched?
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Is it really Killer’s fault that tunnelling is the best strategy? Shouldn’t it Devs’s fault?
Right now there’s absolute 0 incentives to go fresh hooks except for activating Gen Regression perks , which Survivors complain about all day. A 2-hook Survivor still performs just as strong as 0-hook Survivor, so why should Killer go for fresh chase?
So what should Killer do to satisfy you?? Don’t bring any meta perks, don’t play any meta Killers, go for 12 hooks, and versus SWF seal team who can finish all Gens in 5 mins? You might as well just ask the Killer to AFK and open the gates themselves.
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Genuine question. So is there no one on the team that understands and or plays the game?
"regular" people like us look at the patch notes and immediately know if its a good / bad idea. Then eventually with enough of us saying it BHVR go, yeah you guys are right.
Why arent there people on the team that says stuff like that before it even gets to the PTB state.
Example; how does no one think to test " Oh were adding a new DS animation, does it affect the timer? "
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I never really had an issue with people "weaponizing" DS. Mainly because I then tunneled those out. I dont usually tunnel, but if you want to use your Anti-Tunnel Perk to make it as hard as possible for me to not tunnel, I will take the opportunity to win the game easier than before. But I also dont get offended if someone is doing that, because they can also play as they like, they just should not expect that others like it.
And while I would agree that removing the option to use it in an "aggressive" way would be fine, it should also be buffed in the Anti-Tunnel aspect. I see no reason why DS should have a timer of 60 seconds for example. If the Killer takes those 60 seconds to down me and can then hook me without any issue, I still got tunneled, but gain nothing from my "Anti-Tunnel Perk". You can have DS without any timer and it would be totally fine because of conspicious actions, because a Survivor who thinks it is smart to not progress the game to keep DS up for the whole game is basically the same as a dead Survivor. (Yeah, I know, people will say that the Killers time is wasted but a) this does nothing for the Survivor who got tunneled and b) this is 100% the fault of the Killer for going for tunneling AND being quite bad at playing the game)
It is the Devs fault, however, more often than not the Killer decides to tunnel when there is no need at all to tunnel. For example two days ago I went against an Alien with Dying Light while being the Obsession. I was the first one found and hooked and before I was unhooked, the Killer downed a Meg. And instead of picking her up, he came back immediatly when I was unhooked to tunnel me. At 5 Gens. Now - did the Killer need to do this? They had a fresh down, massive pressure (2 Hooks before a Gen is completed is amazing) AND they decided to tunnel out the Obsession, while equipping a Perk which would be beneficial to keep me alive (even tho, it is obviously more beneificial to tunnel).
Your bunch of Strawmans at the end does not change the fact that tunneling often happens when it is not needed at all. This was no poor Killer who had to tunnel in order to have a slim chance to win. Not even close.
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I never really had an issue with people "weaponizing" DS. Mainly because I then tunneled those out.
Then DS still has an unhealthy side effect as it incentivises killers to tunnel, when they try to avoid it. Which I thought was what we wanted? Killers spreading hooks instead of tunneling.
I dont usually tunnel, but if you want to use your Anti-Tunnel Perk to make it as hard as possible for me to not tunnel, I will take the opportunity to win the game easier than before.
I get that and I usually handle it the same way but I still hate that something that is supposed to be a last line of defense is used in that way. If I wanted to tunnel, then I would do it even with DS. But in this case, I am forced to either tunnel that person out or have an even harder match because they become a human shield for their team mate.
I see no reason why DS should have a timer of 60 seconds for example.
The only reason I see for a timer at all is that otherwise you could have 4 survivors that all run around with DS active. Yes, they're not doing objectives but this still defeats its purpose as an anti tunnel perk, which doesn't sit right with me. They could give it unlimited time (or at least 90 seconds), if they changed it so that it deactivates when someone else is hooked after you had already been unhooked.
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Could you recall Victor from a downed survivor in the PTB ? I don't really remember. If not, then you probably won't be able to recall them from an injured one as well.
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What’s the point of making UW linked to the locker position when Darkness Revealed shows the auras of people near all the lockers?
UW should’ve been reworked altogether... To make it like a booby trap.When the killer opens a locker it turns yellow for them. When survivors walk past that locker it slams open, causing the survivor to scream. A burst of black fog comes out. Blinding that survivor, and applying a significant Hindered penalty for 60 seconds. Once UW is performed it goes on cooldown for 60 seconds. The killer can only trap one locker at a time this way.
If survivors look carefully enough at a locker they can see The Entity’s black fog leaking out of the ventilation. (Like how killers can see Blast Mine).
Essentially a killer’s version of Head On. The name “Ultimate Weapon” would finally be fitting.
The perks that the devs keep introducing are very lackluster. The ones that are good, or decent? Get nerfed/reworked into oblivion.0 -
NOED would like to have a word with you sir
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I don't think 2 hooks at 5 Gen is enough for killer to relax yet. It could be 3 gens very close to being done, just not popped yet. The situation can change very fast, and killer has no way to know that.
When I play killer I'm always being merciful, going for fresh hooks rather than tunnelling. I've experienced so many games where I did very well at start, then Survivors made a comeback pretty hard, and the game ended with 4 escape with 8 hooks. Sure I wouldn't mind this, but the same can't be said for majority of the players since 4 escape means a complete loss for Killer. So it all comes down to this, why should killer purposefully give you a chance to comeback? That's why in your case the killer tunnels you for even more advantage, rather than hooking the Meg to give you chances to comeback.
When I play Survivor, I too met killers who definitely tunnel, but it's far from unplayable. I just had a game where Artist tunnelled out the first Survivor, but the game still ended with 2 escape (All Gens done with 3 Survivors alive) since none of us were giving up. Sure it sucks to be the one who got tunnelled out, but the whole match is still fair for Survivors as a group.
So if you really want to remove tunnelling, at the same time there needs to be something that rewards Killers for spreading hooks, otherwise the overall match becomes unfair. For example stronger DS Basekit, and Survivor repairs slower with each hooks. (PS: And please remove the DS BT OTR bodyblock FFS)
Btw, currently I do met Killers who really don't tunnel at all, I give a huge prop to those Killers. But at the same time I also feel kinda bad for them since most matches ended with 4 escapes, where it could be a 4k if they ever decide to tunnel.
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worst thing about DS is that not only is it behind a paywall but it's a licensed paywall so you can't even earn it by playing the game.
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i'm glad PTB twins didn't make it to live but . This is still better then live. The 10% should have stayed but it should go away the moment you enter chase with anyone or pick the downed survivor up instead of when you get a hit. Without this there is still a high incentive to just slug if you down someone far away from charlote. They never needed a major rework in my opinion just this change and qol would make them better for both sides.
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Legendary
Finish their story devs!
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the thing that bugs me the most is the fact that the twins changes will not do to much for the killer overall but now bhvr will sit on there highhorse and ignore twins for ever since they just "reworked" them.
dont get me wrong its better to admit you failed and scrap that rework then to ship it but knowing bhvr this will not help twins but they now think they did something for the killer so they are fine now
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I actually can't remember either. If you can't recall him while attached to healthy survivors that's a big L and these changes solve none of their problems. If you can recall them, this is game changing.
I hope we can, otherwise it's just some super small and feel good QoL that doesn't move their spot on a tier list. Being able to recall Victor from an attached survivor would shoot them up in the tier lists. Bluntly put, as long as survivors are able to take Victor hostage and you can't just recall them Twins will never be popular. People do not enjoy having their power taken hostage. That's a core issue of why no one plays them. Second issue being the annoyance of having to walk over to pick someone up every time you down them..which is for sure still in the game.
That new Weighted Rattle though..S tier. Super excited to use that. Still have like half their entire addon list as basically completely useless..which is disappointing they weren't touched.
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The way I understand it anything in the PTB notes not in these is going through.
I think haddonfield is a lost cause of a map. I don't expect it to ever become good.
I am hesitant to judge Blights collision changes until I have played him so idk but I'm fine with the addon changes but id still like to see his Iris changed along with how double speed works. I think you should have to rush for a quarter of a second or something to get the speed on the next rush so he can't just headbutt a wall a few times then zoom at you.
It was nice to see some QOL for the twins but that rework was never going to fly and I do not want to make them hesitant to use the PTB and overcritical experimental changes but we were teased about that rework for so long and it was a wet fart. What a waste.
I don't think DS needed its buff as it's still a good perk in its current state and there are plenty of worse perks around it just seems like its in the same place as Pop where is unacceptable for it to not be an S tier perk. I dont know why some perks are artfically allowed to just outclass everything else its just strange and its why whats good in 2018 is still generally good today if i ran Dead hard, DS, Unbreakable and any of the other perks that often made it into those builds I would still have a powerful build. Sometimes as players I think we accept something being S tier then becoming A tier is fine.
If Ultimate weapon lingers on the location of the locker for a while it would be a funny perk because you wouldn't be able to run to unhook because you can't scream and unhook so it would be a funny way to camp but in all honestly I dont want any killer info perks nerfed ever while the best 4 perks on the killer side are either regression or gen blocking perks. I also think the game is past the point where most people play the game like hide and seek and anything that finds survivers forces chases, my favorite part of dbd and the reason I think most people play the game.
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The official notes said "Added the ability to recall Victor at any point while he is unbound. (NEW)". When Victor is latched onto a survivor, he's still technically "unbound" from Charlotte, so maybe he can still be recalled? I assumed "unbound" meant "not stuck to someone", but I never tested it on the PTB, so I'm not sure?
But if Charlotte can just recall Victor whenever he's latched onto a survivor, that would be the perfect rework for me. I've had so survivors hold Victor hostage, that I really don't play Twins often, because it's not fun to be stuck as an M1 killer for large portions of the game.
Unless there is a very large percentage of players using DS, then it's mathematically better to just tunnel survivors and just pick them up (instead of slugging them). If the game changes, and a very large percentage of players is using DS, then I can re-evaluate this strategy.
But every time a killer hesitates to pick up a survivor, but that survivor doesn't have DS, then the killer has wasted time. And over the course of many games, the time lost hesitating on survivors without DS, will be greater than the time lost by getting hit by survivors with DS.
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While it is of course very disappointing that the devs even came up with and spent time on these ideas to begin with (all the more so after having had years to think about and work on them) and that they are now reverting most of all of them, leaving the update rather underwhelming, I do have to say that I for one am positively surprised and appreciate that despite putting this work in, BHVR swallowed any pride and just really went back on all of it, valuing the community's general opinion that the changes are not good.
The DS buff and Blight and Ultimate Weapon nerfs will still have tangible, significant effects on the game, so the update is far from inconsequential. I will say that I would have preferred for Blight's flick to be limited instead of his ability to slide off textures removed. Flicking is pretty BS, hugging enables creative and cool plays. But it won't break Blight either, I think given how good his add-ons are he will still be S-tier. I think the Ultimate Weapon adjustment is perfectly adequate, although it's just a little lame now perhaps. I think reducing its active window to 15 seconds and its cooldown to 45 would have sufficed. But I'm not really complaining, the perk just made the game a little too easy.
For Twins, I think they should have kept the part where Victor also latches onto downed survivors, and Charlotte gains 10% Haste whenever Victor is attached to a survivor. This would prevent Victor from being able to go on a slugging spree, but enable Charlotte to not only more reliably pick up survivors Victor downed but also be more of a threat herself. But regardless, I welcome the QoL improvements to a killer I personally have always enjoyed immensely to play as and against.
I will have to play on the new Haddonfield more to be able to tell just how it plays for both roles. It seemed a bit too killer-leaning on the PTB, but I didn't play much and the sheer brokenness of PTB Twins of course tinged that entire experience in a bad light.
I'm still looking forward to the new store as well as any possible improvements to come with the engine update, although I don't suspect there really will be any. Well, at least the game will run on DX12 by default, which can be an improvement for people that weren't already aware of how to enable it.
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I agree. There was a point and time in this game where the response to the backlash this PTB got would have been met with something along the lines of “the work and resources have already been put in, we’ll see how these changes go live and possibly consider changing things in the future”. Glad to see they can recognize that eating this loss was healthier for the game than being prideful.
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Thought I get where you and the other person are coming from and I am also happy they didn't just push the rework to live but this should not ever happen again. This is why I refuse to praise and celebrate the devs in any way for this update because the twin rework should had never left the planning room to begin with. Sure it's great they listen to the community but maybe next time instead of putting years of work into a big update and waiting for a ptb to ask ppl options on it, provide a proof of concept so ppl can give them feedback or get well-known players(like twin mains) in the community to test changes before they push them into a ptb. If they did any of that anywhere doing the twin rework progress we would have been left such an empty mid-chapter and so much time wouldn't had been wasted on a failure rework, time that could have been used to help other killers like Myres and Freddy.
So instead of saying "thank you" all I'm going to say to the devs is do better next time…. This is the most disappointing update I have ever seen. Never have I felt so uninterested in an update in dbd before. The 8th-anniversary update better be a banger to make up for this cold boring update.
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We've not released the patch notes yet, this is the Dev Update which gives an overview of what's happening not the full detail that's found in the patch notes. The patch notes will be released as always just prior to the release.
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I am pointing this out because you often do not include all the fixes and changes in the patch notes for each update. The player is not a debugger. I also don't know why the red scratches are harder to see. I don't know the reason for the other bugs either. The problem is that we don't know what has changed and what hasn't changed.
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