Why new MoM will not be better (updated)
In the current decision for the change of MoM, you will need to get 3 protection score events (taking a hit for the team). Sounds better for balance for MoM right? Well, lets think about it. Survivor has MoM, gets 3 protection hits, they unhook a survivor while killer is near, killer assumes that the survivor has MoM, so the killer does not go after the MoM survivor. The killer decides to get the unhooked survivor, they get downed, they get picked up but UH OH...they have DS and get a free escape.
What i'm saying is, the new MoM will encourage survivors to use DS more often, resulting instead of only 1 survivor getting a free hit, 2 survivors get a free, effectively reverting the change back to what it was before.
Comments
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This thing can already happen, as it's pretty obvious when someone WANTS to get hit, that they have MoM.
Also, that's IF they both communicate that they're running said perks.
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RJJDIJKHFFBEHBFEKBEHBEHKEBVKHJEB
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@ShrekIsHot You okay?
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Current MoM punishes you for hitting survivors and they get it for free. The new one actually requires you to do something to activate it. So stop crying about your crutch perks and learn to play without them.
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Yea, you know, the thing you have to do to survive that everybody does.
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just go for the guy with MoM and if it's that much of a problem you can wait for the hooked guy to be out of range for a protection hit. It's fine and you can slug if you are so worried about new DS.
Edit: I know these situations exist but if the survivor farms another off a hook right in front of you the survivors usually aren't that good anyways most of the time they won't unhook emphasis on most of the time.
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We do not know if that is even going to be the MoM change. It was the one publicly mentioned, but then followed by saying they have others they are looking at as well. Instead of going crazy with assumptions, lets wait until they actually release what the change will be. Then we can go insane with screams of its OP, its a major nerf, its the new meta, or whatever new complaint we can come up with.
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Did you read my post? It SAYS that is the CURRENT plan. I know it may or may not change. I'm just saying it now as it is.
Also, the "just wait and try it out" defense is unjustified. Everyone thought that MoM would be broken once it leaked, and it turned out to be true. Everyone thought the legion nerf was going to make them utter trash, and that turned out to be true (although a bit subjective and debatable) and so many more.
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And?
That specific situation is no different than with the current version of MoM. Its not really a reason to NOT go with the current idea.
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While i dont like the protection hit change currently it's a pain to verse as it's a guaranteed activate on most killers so a change is certainly needed.
Maybe if they did it by means of tokens for saves and heals it may be better, even using self care could add half a token.
That way it takes players off gens who want to use it, doesn't mean you have to lose a health state or put yourself in harms way and also doesnt make SWF rush to block hooking making it frustrating for killers.
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I did read your post. It stated current decision. As I pointed out, it is not the current decision but one of several they are exploring. I stated there is no reason to get worked up over something that is not even remotely official. When they announce what the final decision is for MoM, then by all means, have at it.
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Why would they announce it then?
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3 protection hits would only encourage mor body blocking than we already have. You hate MoM now, you'll beg for it back after the new meta becomes 4 swf MoM, DH, Adren with instant heals and overall body blocking builds so you are forced to run 2 perk counters. This will also neutralize M2 advantage over MoM.
Want to make MoM better without causing such insanity? Once you have been downed by an instant down attack, you become immune to the next one. Only effects the more powerful attacks, and only after suffering a hit from it. No three hit downs, just a simple one hit immunity to an instant down.
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body blocks make me laugh it gives me more pressure 4 injured is better than 1 down.
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To play Devil's Advocate, that exact scenario can already happen, only you'd have no clue that the unhooker is using it until it's too late. On top of that, you have the choice between going for the unhooked guy and getting hit with DS (totally avoidable, expires in 60 seconds), or going for the guy with MoM, which does not expire and will remain active for the rest of the round until you hit them.
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Proc MoM, slug the unhook, then go after the MoMy's boy
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And if I am correct, now it puts you in the injured state no matter what
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^^^^^ This. They announced theyre looking at making a change and gave an example of a possibility. So instead of making what if scenarios, you wait to see what they come up with, give it afew weeks and see how it plays out. Everyone likes to go overboard with what if scenerios. Assuming they DO go for the example given however...
Under your scenerio, Im to assume the unhooker has MoM and i should go for the unhooked, but i should also assume the unhooked has borrowed time and DS. Thats alot of assuming. You might be able to assume this if someone has been giving you free hits by body blocking all game and then running off to selfcare in the corner, but that also just means that guy has already wasted alot of time
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Who ever said they're going to make it better?
They're reworking it to give you the same element but you have to earn it now.
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It's not supposed to be better, that's the whole point.
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Tbh I just say make the perk operate as it does now but the survivor goes into the Broken state for a period of time to help balance it out since they'd be stuck as an injured 1 hit KO for a short time before being able to be healed
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So am I supposed to just stand there for 60 seconds, or go after another survivor, which by that time the downed survivor will get picked up and possibly healed?
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If 3 hits are necessary nobody will use MoM, you can go for the unhooker one.
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the only problem with the new MoM is that it'll be a perk slot waste if the killer was slugging. it won't help at all. and it will be almost impossible to activate (since the only way to get protection hits for you is to take the hit WHILE healing a teammate) for me. i already threw MoM to the trash can.
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This seems like a very niche scenario.
The problem that's *actually* going to arise is survivors not doing the objective anymore and just going for protection hits. It'll hurt the gameplay loop alot, especially for solo survivors.
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Thats assuming they even bother to take Mom anymore.
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3 protection hits is better then reverse Borrowed Time. No one wanted that.
I actually like the idea of tying the perk to taking a hit for the team. It was a creative solution. And one that requires them to get off a generator to do it.
*thumbs up to devs*
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I find it funny people are this upset over the Perk as it is currently. The change will have it far too niche and it'll fade into obscurity. Good luck getting stacks when facing the majority of Killers with powers and instant downs from various enablers. Slugging strategies will probably negate it as well.
Sorry, even tho I favor playing Killer but still play both sides, I find this a funny nerf. DS needed a change because of how oppressive it was and denied Killers a Hook if they couldn't juggle and further extended chases...MoM still requires getting those hits and usually still nets Killers their Hook unless the Killer messes up and loses the chase/breaks it off.
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It'll still be awful from a gameplay perspective, but at least there is some criteria a survivor will have to meet other than selecting it from the loadout screen. If survivors are going to want to waste time away from gens to try and take protection hits, by all means do so. I tend to slug a lot anyway.
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Personally, I'm against the change requiring 3 protection score events to activate MoM. But your argument is terrible for a number of reasons. The main reason being that MoM will virtually never be used if the change goes live. Scoring 3 protection events is a huge hurdle. Even attempting to do that handicaps the whole match. If you just focus on generators, you could finish 2 generators with the amount of time and effort it would take to get 3 protection hits.
Common sense tells you that finishing generators is more important than absorbing a single hit from the killer. Thus the entire chain of "logic" you use in your argument is invalid. Killers won't assume that the person going for a rescue is running MoM because no one would run MoM anymore therefore it won't affect the killer's decision making process.
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@Dreamnomad you should be a mod
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I'm thinking...
What if they add a timer to MoM? I mean, you get your MoM the same way as it is now, but you have like 40/30 sec to use it.
That would be better.
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First of all, how is it not valid? If someone uses MoM, than it still applies.
And second of all, you honestly think no one, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE will use MoM? Not everybody plays like you, not everyone will play like me.
And finally, people out here try to find every exploit in the game and abuse it.
(BTW gens are inherently flawed for both sides)
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I just think it's funny BHVR is using this tactic to begin with. You can't tell me they had no clue the stink MoM would raise when they released Ash. They knew. They also knew it would sell. So they sell a bunch of Ash dlcs, then nerf it? Seriously sleezy practice there.
You were either incompetent in assessing MoM's impact, regardless of hundreds of posts before release, or you knew it would sell well and could be nerfed later. Pretty low business model there. Definitely won't be buying future dlc.
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Honestly I feel like they should just make it where it takes 3 hits for first down, after which your aura is visible. A big reason of why it's so good is your aura isn't gonna be visible for a long time due to the time it takes for MoM to proc. If it procs EARLIER(due to requiring 3 hits for your first down, instead of being hit twice, put on the hook, and then being hit again after being healed). With this change it'd proc earlier and the downside would come faster. I don't think it should be only for protection hits mainly because the ability isn't named something like "Guardian". It's named "Mettle of Man", this would imply you were naturally tanky in my mind.
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Not 100% sure. I think it'll be the same number of killers that get Monstrous Shrine
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Easy solution. Slug the survivor who got unhooked and then chase the person who unhooked them. They wouldn't get the stack because it's a safe unhook and that would result in a minimum of two people not working on gens. If someone wants to revive the slug then that's 3 people minimum not working on gens. The change is a great idea and in no way will it make the game worse off than it does now.
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This would be pretty irrelevant because survivors rarely go and heal after proccing MoM in the first place. It just allows them to extend the loop/chase for a longer period of time. Even if they did get away, they don't usually heal because of the other effect that MoM has for healing up to full.
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Exactly.
You should pressure as many survivors as possible for as long as possible until you can sacrifice them all.
If you down one and chase another while a third has to pick up the slugged one, what are you complaining?
You occupy 3 survivors, only one is left to work on gens.
Maybe you need to start using killers that can end chases fast and with a good map presence if you struggle that much.
This new MoM can be countered by Mad Grid, Agitation or pressing R.
Nurse's Calling, currently in the shrine, also gains value if everyone is trying to get hit.
Try to think more about the game.
How can you utilize the given mechanics to maximize your advantages?
Play some survivor of you struggle with them to learn how they behave and how you can use it against them.
But if you only want to camp, tunnel and slug.
Do this at your hearts content, but don't cry if the rest of the survivors are rushing gens etc.
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THERE WE GO! The "you have to use certain killers" argument. Hey, guess what. The current MoM can be countered with M2 killers. Why does this game want to FORCE me to play a certain killer to have ANY sort of chance of winning.
See, this ties to a much bigger problem about the game. First, let me say that I do not want killers to be OP, I want both sides to have equal opportunity to win based how well they play. While yes, the new (proposed) MoM does make you have to do something to activate the perk, but it is STILL a second chance perk.
Also, another person that thinks being forced to use a perk is ok.
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I agree 100% that MoM is an unhealthy perk and I am happy that it sees changes.
As it is today only hard camping the first hook is a reliable counter against MoM.
The new MoM evens the playing field for every killer!
It doesn't matter if you are a Billy or Hag, if you carry a survivor only m1 is possible.
In my post I advice to focus on killers with better chases and map presence instead of tunneling and camping a single survivor.
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The way they are changing MoM BHVR might as well combine the perk with WGLF, just like how BBQ has 2 effects so does this one. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
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Mettle of Man is fine the way it is.
It's conditional. 3 hits with a primary hit. Special hits don't count. And if you heal after you get it... you're shown the whole time later.
I think it's fine. It's annoying yes, but it's fine.
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I'll just run Mad Grit and let them bodyblock all they want.
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Well it had no counter play, man. And they aren’t making it better. They’re trying to make it balanced without ruining it’s efficiency, which BHVR does not have a good track record of lately.
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@Warlock_2020 I think it's funny so many people assume everyone bought Ash for that perk. I bought Ash, for Ash, and havent used the perk since maybe the first 3 days he was out.
This whole "Behavior is selling DLCs by planning them to be OP" narrative needs to stop.
If that was the case, they wouldnt even look at changing it. Theyd simply quote the ToU that says things change.
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Farming downvotes dude?
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So MoM is pretty OP and is in need of a nerf, The amount of times it has save me or my squad is insane, It is to the point I get hit on purpose just so I have that ready for end game. When 3 or 4 have it, with other stacked get out of jail perks and god forbid an insta heal or two you can pretty much say GG.
Again people that defend it don't see how it is used in red or even purple ranks. It is a gift for getting hit which is not really fair.
As killer it is frustrating on any M1 killer and further pushes them from being competitive in green ranks to yellow. It is breaking the game and I would say the fun for many killer mains and new killers.
As for the changes, I wont take it anymore based on defensive hits. I mean I could body block hooks to get my stacks but honestly, I am not always in that position based on map location to have it happen 3 times in a match, mainly because i am rushing gens. So I will drop the perk for something more helpful (borrowed maybe)
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Told ya so.
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I'm thinking the new MOM will go well with We're Gonna Farm Forever, erm, I mean We're Gonnal Live Forever.
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