IW and Slugging
I think that Iron Will should also be in effect when you're downed. Because how else do you counter slugging if they're not running Deerstalker?
Comments
-
I mean there are loads of perks to counter slugging. Flip-Flop, Tenacity, Unbreakable, even No Mither (before you say that No Mither doesn’t work because they easily know you have it, it forces them to pick you up, aka you countered them from slugging am I wrong?).
Also if Iron Will worked while you were in the dying state, it would cause all sorts of problems where the Killer would never be able to find you and that would just be boring. Plus you would most likely bleed out than escape so it wouldn’t help you there.
11 -
“All sort of problems where the Killer would never be able to find you” are countered by not slugging.
8 -
I suppose to counter slugging you could just not get downed I suppose too.
5 -
Are grunts of pain even intended while downed if you are running Iron Will? The perk's description does NOT state "your grunts of pain are not suppressed while downed" or something like that. It definitely should work while downed otherwise the perk is just inconsistent like... Well.. Like half of the game.
4 -
Killer should not slug if they aren't equipped to slug. If they can't find you after they choose to slug that's their own fault. Sure you might not escape, but if it were me I'd take my chances thank you. I'd take that over the killer getting a free pass to find me, when I specifcally took a perk to conceal my noise.
This is why BBQ is so powerful... it allows killers to slug with abandon, among all its other uses.
Iron Will should definitely work while down. I mean you're dying why are you noisy.
5 -
Bloody Claudette + tall grass = yay, waiting 4 minutes for 50 BP!
9 -
Yes of course, but being downed isn’t boring and being slug is. Op was suggesting a perk change to discourage something lots of people are rightfully bored with.
1 -
Iron Will has never been intended to work while dying. It specifies Injured, and Injured and Dying are two separate states.
Post edited by Tzeentchling9 on1 -
What I find annoying is that I like immersive but helpful gameplay and I hate when and here is an example, a nurse goes around attacking one after another until everyone is on the ground. This nurse is relying on BBQ&C to find me. But little does she know I was also running tenacity. So I made sure to stay close so it would keep me safe from the aura reading. But no problem she just has to listen to find me. This is what I find annoying. This player is being rewarded for finding me and I can't do anything about it. Not every person slugs. But most people will leave you on the ground to find the last survivor to deny them the hatch. IW should take away all noise what do you and the development team think @Peanits? I mean calm spirit has two functions you don't scream, and you don't alert crows. Why can't IW also do the same in the sense of you don't make grunts of pain at any time? Downed or running around.
Post edited by Darkwraith13 on1 -
But then anyone who's not using BBQ or Deerstalker has no way to tell where you are unless they comb every single inch of the map looking for the pickup prompt. You can't expect everyone to run a perk for that just in case. I would say that in this instance, you'd be better off running Unbreakable to let you get back up.
7 -
I personally use IW on Jane and it is annoying when i've been hiding from the killer and then they find me and down me and then suddenly Jane starts yelling.
I don't care so much though because it is not as loud as injured groans and if you get far away enough then you can't be heard anyway.
1 -
Iron Will is already a top tier perk. It doesn't need a buff. There are other perks that counter slugging that you can use.
0 -
You said it yourself. "This player is being rewarded for finding me and I can't do anything about it". They found you, they did better than you, they should get rewarded. Thats the biggest flaw in your reasoning. You are getting rewarded when you shouldnt, taking away said reward from someone who deserves it.
0 -
Fair @Peanits. Hence why it would be a punishment. If you choose to leave me on the ground IRL I am crawling away. I will make no noise to spite you the satisfaction of not taking the opportunity to end me. I have always run Iron Will, Spine Chill, Tenacity, and Dead Hard. We can argue that so and so wasn't using Deerstalker or BBQ&C but that's just a childish way to think about it. The game has been out for a while. People are relatively intelligent enough to do the research on what perks are the best. 93% of killer games are with BBQ&C (in my experience on PS4) so they know the tricks of how to leave people on the ground and exploit using this aura reading to find their prey. Even if they can't find them where they thought they were all they have to do is rely on the grunts of pain. Again if this was IRL I would be silent. I would not want the killer to find me even if I was in pain. My "Iron Will" would suppress my pain and fear to stay quiet. So if we can't defend against that (aura reading) in the "dying state" then we really should be able to have a counter in another way via not making noise in the "dying-state." FlipFlop is impractical in the sense that what if the killer has Iron Grasp in combination with Agitation? Or better yet in my own experience there are just so many hooks too close together? I am a solo survivor. I don't play with anyone so I can't coordinate with my "team-mates" to sabotage hooks.
0 -
What is the goal of the punishment, though? If you do not have unbreakable, you're going to sit on the ground until you bleedout and die anyway. Best case scenario, you crawl to the hatch, but if you're not already close the killer is probably going to find it while looking for you. It would just create a huge lull at the end of the game where you end up playing hide and seek for a couple minutes, and that's not really fun for anyone.
I wouldn't bring realism into this, though. The game is not aiming to be realistic. Gameplay should always be put above realism.
1 -
@PigNRun how is that a flaw in my reasoning? They found me not on skill but on a flawed system. "So I made sure to stay close so it would keep me safe from the aura reading. But no problem she just has to listen to find me. This is what I find annoying. This player is being rewarded for finding me and I can't do anything about it."
0 -
Because if they changed it your way they wouldn't be able to find you not on skill but on a flawed system. Upgrading a meta perk that already has multiple uses to then counter 2 more killer perks would break the game further.
0 -
To be the Devil's Advocate, isn't that the potential consequence of slugging survivors (I.E. Losing your slug)?
Also, you don't exactly need BBQ and Deer Stalker to find survivors — just memorize their location and search that area when your done slugging (this doesn't work when you slug for extreme durations).
1 -
Has already been brought up however it has been stated that it wouldn't be fun for either party if a killer was unable to find where you are.
You guys literally complain about how annoying it is to be left on the ground for 4 minutes why would you want to do something that would just increase the likelihood of your being left on the ground for the full 4 minutes
1 -
@Volfawott because I want to punish this person for playing in that manner. I want them to lose me. I want them to search desperately to find me before I die so they cannot get the points for the sacrifice on hook.
0 -
So pathetic, you're literally wasting everyones' time for something that is not even a win. You still sit on the ground doing nothing for four minutes, then die. Just run Unbreakable. I almost never get slugged, but when I do, I'm up and out of there. That's the counter to slugging, not hiding while you wait to die.
1 -
Is that how most survivors feel? Damn. Well, fine, I can just slug you guys and not hook you. I'll read my book while you guys bleed out, I really don't mind.
0 -
@Lufanati what right do you have to call my opinion pathetic? There are plenty of people on here that would agree that this play style is annoying. The killer is wasting my time and the other survivors time as well by playing this way. Especially when they're forcing me to die slowly to secure a 4 kill. I run Tenacity over Unbreakable that's just my preference. So please do not diminish my thoughts and feelings, and tell me what to use. All I am saying is IW should affect grunts of pain while in the dying state.
0 -
@TragicSolitude how is this comment helpful at all? I'm looking for feedback and constructive criticism. Save the books I feel like they're not helping anyways.
0 -
Feedback and constructive criticism = wholeheartedly agreeing with buffing a meta perk
1 -
@S_Panda if that is how you feel. Also I hardly see anyone other than myself and a few odd ducks run this perk. I see Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, and Adrenaline far more as the "meta". Your two comments "I suppose to counter slugging you could just not get downed I suppose too." & "Feedback and constructive criticism = wholeheartedly agreeing with buffing a meta perk." these offer nothing in regards to being helpful. They're glib and you sound like a dog barking just to make noise.
0 -
@Darkwraith13 "I want to punish this person for playing in that manner."
That's what you said. That's the kind of unhealthy attitude that divides this community. There's no way to give constructive criticism to that comment. All I can do is offer to let you have your wish and bleed out rather than be hooked.
I've gone up against killers that decided to slug all four survivors and let us bleed out. Why? As far as I know, the others didn't do anything to deserve it. I certainly didn't.
I'm tired of playing solo survivor and having killers attempt to punish me for the sins of other survivors. And I'm tired of playing nice as killer and having survivors attempt to punish me for the sins of other killers. It's not fun.
I don't run Ruin or any other gen slowing perks when I play killer. Slugging is how I can slow the game down without tunneling survivors out of the game. I don't like slugging, I know it's not fun for survivors, but that's the mechanic I have at my disposal.
For a while I ran DS, Unbreakable, Tenacity, and Flip Flop as survivor. That's how I countered slugging. IW is not meant to counter slugging, it's meant to counter constantly giving away your location with grunts of pain while you're injured, and it works great for that.
2 -
You're right that those 4 are definitely meta perks, but all 4 survivors don't need to have borrowed time. Iron Will is especially used by say someone trying to be the chased and therefore is a direct replacement to borrowed time in that build. It's usable against every killer and strong against spirit/nurse. To call it not meta would be calling those 4 not meta. If a perk is being used by half the survivors in a match I would hardly call it not meta.
You are directly asking for a buff to said meta perk to "punish" killers who slug so that you can sit there for 4 minutes effectively holding the game hostage by sitting in a patch of grass.
Do go on about "feedback" when you aren't asking for something positive for the game itself.
0 -
Thank you this was much more insightful.
0 -
Well, Dying State is not Injured.
Besides that, I usually dont have any problem with giving noises while slugged. If I am one of the last people, I will most likely not get out anyway, and I prefer to be picked up and hooked instead of lying around for 4 minutes.
0 -
No problem.
Asking the devs to take a look at the slugging mechanic because it's not fun is one thing. Saying that killers should be punished for using one of the few mechanics they have at their disposal is another. Killers don't necessarily want to slug. I rarely slug for the 4k, usually only if I'm going for an achievement. If the killer cares about pipping in higher ranks, they're basically forced to slug for the 4k or risk depipping. That's not the killer's fault, that's the way the game is designed.
Appealing to devs that the requirements for pipping be adjusted so killers aren't forced to slug for the 4k, that'd be a good way to go. Killers have been requesting that, themselves.
I also think that, if the survivor has been in the dying state for a certain amount of time, they should be able to "concede," leaving behind a husk and collecting their points so that they can move on to a new match. There's no reason to force a player to watch themselves bleed out, but as the game is designed right now we also can't just take away the killer's ability to slug.
1 -
So you don't want to fix the problem you just want a whine and throw a tantrum.
Let me put it to you like this slugging is not inherently bad.
Is it annoying to be slugged? yes
Does it mean you have to throw all your toys out of the pram? no because you're not a two year old.
Can you imagine if the developers capitulated to every single complaint because somebody found it annoying to deal with.
Do you know how dull that would make the game.
0 -
Let me give you a piece of constructive criticism which matches the tone and intent of this statement.
"I want them to lose me. I want them to search desperately to find me before I die so they cannot get the points for the sacrifice on hook."
Grow the hell up and stop treating everything like it's a personal attack on you.
0 -
You don't need IW to counter slugging.
0
