Survivors trapped inside their minds - L4D related theory

Rattman

So, as title says, my theory claims that there is no actual body transfer to Entity realm for survivors (and, probably, killers, but its not the point here). This theory gonna be long, and its begining gonna be well too far from main topic, so get prepared.

This theory was originally posted in russian subforum by me. Yup, Iam russian. After I posted another theory (hi, @TheBretzel !) from here in russian forum, I also decided to post something there. Cause, why not, right? For all Grammar Nazi here: pls, don't hate me. Just in case. Ok?

So, first of all, we gonna recall L4D storyline. I honestly expect that you atleast heard that L4D is iconic zombie shooter, one of the very first one game with formula "4 players VS AI". At these times it was, like, brand new type of gameplay, so I HIGHLY DOUBT that you don't know about this title.

The beginning of story isn't related to topic much, so we gonna jump almost at the end.
Well, at the very end of 5-th story campaign "Blood Harvest" survivors managed to find a radio and call militaries for rescue. According to official Sacrifice comic (events in this comic happen between 5-th and 6-th campaign), military guys lost their contact with command. Entire time of zombie outbreak they were just sitting inside their base, without any knowledge what actually going outside. After arriving L4D survivors were taken to doctor. And here goes one of the main points of this theory. L4D survivors (including William "Bill" Overbeck) not actually immune to zombie virus (or green flu, how it originally called). They are asymptomatic carriers. So, they infected and capable to infect healthy people. At meantime, they don't show any symptoms and can't turn into zombie.
Here are some pages from comic as proof.


Soon after, survivors manage to escape from military base as zombies broke through. All soldiers die cause of lack of experience and "immunity". And, well, because Bill stole the train from depot station and left them to die. Other survivors are shocked with Bill's decission. Bill says, that he couldn't risk his friend's lives. As they arrive to the port, they come with new plan: get boat and made it to island, since zombies can't swim. At some point they find a boat, but this boat couldn't be used - bridge blocking the way. Survivors power up 3 generators to lift bridge up and climb on it. Bridge lifts up loudly and loud noises attract zombies. Suddenly, one of 3 generators gets mailfunctioned. As zombie horde arrives, survivors slowly realising, that they are doomed. After this, Bill jumps down and fixing generator, basically sacrificing his live for the sake of lives of others.

Some time passes and L4D2 survivors find their way to bridge. They meet L4D survivors and find Bill's body.

Here goes the base minimum of information for understanding this theory.
Survivors trapped inside their mind. All these trials actually happen inside their mind, which somehow at some part bended by Entity's will. As for Bill, all these trials going as his brain slowly dying. He dying in Entity's realm while he dying in real life. There wasn't any body transfers for survivors or killers as they find themselves in Entity's realm.
Some facts from his lore above buck up this theory:
1) According to L4D story, his body wasn't gone anywhere. It was found after his death. Worth to remind, he also couldn't turn into zombie.
2) Bill was asymptomatic carrier. Its true, that we don't know, how zombie virus spreads, airborne or via blood or any other way. But if there was body transfer, it means that local zombie apocalypse among survivors and killers would happen.

You might say, that I probably shouldn't create theories about Entity's realm by lore of guest character. Ehh... maybe you right. And, well, maybe not.
There is a theme with collection of all lore questions, which devs gave answers at some point. 25-th question:

You also can see for yourself here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/2402/every-lore-related-question-devs-answered-81-questions-and-some-answers-1#latest
So yeah. Its end for facts from Bill's lore.
BUT.
This theory also bucks up by other facts, which related to base game and other DLC:
3) Survivors are always dying on hooks, or by killers' hands. After this, somehow, they always stay alive. Death is not escape.
4) Somehow survivors managing to heal from chainsaw wounds etc.
5) Did you notice, when you use your key with addons for aura reading, this ability actually called "Mind channel"? Way too convinient.

6) David Tapp from Saw. He is dead too, his body also have been found. There was even funeral for him in, I think, 5-th Saw.
7) Amanda Young, a.k.a The Pig. Also dead in her original world.
8) Here kicks in project "Awakening" and Doctor's lore. Well, as you remember, Doctor searched panacea from mind control, but failed. Its unknown what happened with his body, tho, so this argument is kinda weak.

So, yeah... and Bill dies IRL cause of generators, and while he dying, he dies countless times in Entity's realm cause of generators.

What do you guys think about it?

TheBretzel

Hey there. @Rattman

(I'll have to see L4D whole story to really see the big picture of the theory -and Bill's fate- but I'll comment some things anyways)

It's plausible. You got some interesting things going on here about time passing, licensed characters and the fact about the key mind's channel ability.

But before going into minor specifications, there are problematic questions that arise if we take into account your two major points; that they are trapped inside the Entity's realm while ;

1) Their body still exists and
2) it all happen in their heads

So you'll have to ask yourself theses main questions if you want to make it more believable ;

1- What do you make of Kate's story and how she was being physically dragged into the Entity's realm ?

2- The version of Laurie we have is the version of the first or second movie, the outfit only matches her during thoses times. Also she never dies or comes close to dying in thoses two movies. So how did she got trapped in there ?

3- If the survivors become killers after losing all their hope, what happens to their physical bodies ? Since it has been said that the Entity transforms the killer's appearance during the transition to it's realm. (exception for DLC killers since license holders representation)

4- What do you make of Benedict Baker's investigation before entering the Entity's realm ? He searched a long time for bodies and clues and nothing was found, espceially in the MacMillan Estate.

5- According to my 4th question, if Benedict had time to make an investigation about the disappearances surrounding MacMillan Estate, then it means that time does pass almost normally in both wolrds. If that is the case, then would'nt Bill have had enough time to die before entering many trials, if any?

So that's about it.

Like I said, it's plausible, but those problematic questions appears and dont support the theory : c

Rattman

@TheBretzel said:

So you'll have to ask yourself theses main questions if you want to make it more believable ;
1- What do you make of Kate's story and how she was being physically dragged into the Entity's realm ?

Kate's story don't give much answers, since we still don't know how transfer actually happening from the 2-d observer perspective. Its still vague enough.

2- The version of Laurie we have is the version of the first or second movie, the outfit only matches her during thoses times. Also she never dies or comes close to dying in thoses two movies. So how did she got trapped in there ?

I never mentioned that ALL survivors dead. Its possible that they are still alive. They just somehow mind-controlled. Their bodies most likely just lying somewhere unconcious. And also, Iam gonna talk about Laurie at 5-th question.

3- If the survivors become killers after losing all their hope, what happens to their physical bodies ? Since it has been said that the Entity transforms the killer's appearance during the transition to it's realm. (exception for DLC killers since license holders representation)

First, we don't have clean example for this. It was said, that survivor becomes killer after losing all hope, yes. But we never encountered this in game or lore.
Second, it actually doesn't matter, since its mind getting transformed, not body.

4- What do you make of Benedict Baker's investigation before entering the Entity's realm? He searched a long time for bodies and clues and nothing was found, espceially in the MacMillan Estate.

He didn't have opportynity to search in MacMillan Estate, since he got transfered when he entered there. Yes, he found out that people are missing when they going in there, but that's all.

5- According to my 4th question, if Benedict had time to make an investigation about the disappearances surrounding MacMillan Estate, then it means that time does pass almost normally in both wolrds. If that is the case, then would'nt Bill have had enough time to die before entering many trials, if any?

Yes, he had much time investigating and yes, its been 10 weeks from last missing case. It doesn't mean that time in both worlds pass at the same speed tho. Infact, devs said that time works very strange in Entity's realm. There are many timelines thus explaining multiple versions of survivors. So, IMHO, there is something like device from White X-mas ("Black mirror" series). If time passes differently in both worlds (ours and Entity's) it fits perfectly with Bill's lore and, btw, Laury's lore. So, she just lied unconcious for some time and then woke up, without remembering anything. And then other Halloween films happened.

So that's about it.

Like I said, it's plausible, but those problematic questions appears and dont support the theory : c

Its just a theory, anyway. Devs don't give much details and we don't actually know the state of job being done about lore. Is it pretty good enough?

TheBretzel

Kate's story don't give much answers, since we still don't know how transfer actually happening from the 2-d observer perspective. Its still vague enough.

-> True, I'll give you the fact that we dont know about the 2-d observer perspective. But Kate's story does gives a little hint about the Entity being physically present. Main thing is the rock that she tried to hit the Entity's spider legs with. Yes you can say that after that she entered the nightmare in her head once she reached the fog, but I doubt that she was already in it if she was trying to hit the Entity with something first, since inside the Entity's realm, the Entity does not allow survivors to fight back lore-wise. (gameplay wise yea like decisive strike but whatever.) But I'll agree it's still vague enough until we have more proof of the Entity being physically present (or not) in the real world.

I never mentioned that ALL survivors dead. Its possible that they are still alive. They just somehow mind-controlled. Their bodies most likely just lying somewhere unconcious. And also, Iam gonna talk about Laurie at 5-th question.

-> Nice I just wanted to make sure not all survivors were dead before entering the realm, kind of a trap question :^) lol.

First, we don't have clean example for this. It was said, that survivor becomes killer after losing all hope, yes. But we never encountered this in game or lore.
Second, it actually doesn't matter, since its mind getting transformed, not body.

-> It's more of taking a possibility into account more than anything else, but that's true that we never had direct proof of a survivor becoming a killer. We have some hints, but nothing solid yet. (+ I'll believe that fact only when we get to see it). As for the second part of your answer, about the killers, if it doesn't matter then why would some unwilling killers do the Entity's bidding if it was just the mind being controlled? Wouldnt they feel pain if they get tortured enough to follow the Entity's orders ? You hinted earlier that Survivors could survive chainsaw hits, but what about the killers that did not want to do the Entity's bidding in the first place? Devs said that some Killers got tortured before following the Entity. So they must have felt a physical pain. Especially referenced by this quote;

55- WHICH KILLERS ENJOY SERVING THE ENTITY?

"I would say that the ones who enjoyed doing it in real life still enjoy it. So Freddy, for example. Others you can see in their bio, or attempt to have a good idea. You can also look on their body: if they seem to have a lot of torture or physical pain that was done to them, it's probably because The Entity had to force it on them."

I know you said survivors only being affected by this, but I'd like to know where you put killers into this theory since they play an important role too.

He didn't have opportynity to search in MacMillan Estate, since he got transfered when he entered there. Yes, he found out that people are missing when they going in there, but that's all.

-> Yea it's true he might not have had enough time to search before being taken. I'll give you that.

It doesn't mean that time in both worlds pass at the same speed tho. Infact, devs said that time works very strange in Entity's realm. (...) So, she just lied unconcious for some time and then woke up, without remembering anything.

-> That's the only point were I'll have to disagree here. Time does pass in the Entity's realm no matter the way time passes. It passes in an enough significant way for our world to gather Benedict to make an investigation about the disappearances surrounding MacMillan estate and the people around it remembering the tragedy of Archie MacMillan and Evan (Trapper). Considering Evan entered the Entity's realm only after the tragedy since that is how the Entity works. He could not have killed 200+ people in one night, and also, his father was found in the basement, so some people managed to enter MacMillan Estate and report back at least 1 body. What I'm getting at is that even if time passes differently by, example, 30 seconds in our world = 10 years in the Entity's realm, it doesnt matter simply because enough time had passed for Bill to die in the L4D world. Not only there but in Saw world too (Amanda would have died in the seconds following her throat being shot). And that is due to the fact that an investigation was taken at MacMillan Estate. So unless L4D's universe's timeline does not follow our normal timeline (or something special is about Bill) then this is the only point where I'll have to disagree since for the Entity to work the mind, the body must still be alive if there was indeed no body transfer, otherwise it ceases all function.

Its just a theory, anyway. Devs don't give much details and we don't actually know the state of job being done about lore. Is it pretty good enough?

It's nice indeed since I see where you're coming from about there being a mind thing (Key Mind channel + other things you said), but there's some things that need clarification before digging into details and if I can help making your theory more solid by asking the right questions then it just benefits every Lore fan like me and others (Cause I do read every Lore thread lol :^)

Rattman

First things first, Iam officially claiming that anti-spam bot works really [BAD F-WORD] awful. Guess, I waited enough to be sure, that my previous comment went to comment oblivion.
Well, lets summon it from there.
...
Kate lore is pretty confusing. As for me, the most problematic part was near at the end, when it was said that

When the fog cleared, there was no sign of any struggle, or of life. Just an acoustic guitar, the scratch plate engraved with flowers; as well as the initials KD, inlaid in mother of pearl.

It looks like this isn't actually from Kate's perspective anymore. But, from the other hand, maybe "no signs of life or struggle" refering that she lied unconcious? Don't know that to think.
...
Its not like I doubt that survivor become killer after losing all hope, I agree with that. Just wanted to point out that we don't really know any details about this process. To early to jump to conclussions. Well, according to theory, their mind gonna be transformed. And if they don't really like it - they gonna be tortured. Since, they mind controlled, they believe that torture is physical, not mental. According to it, their appearence is also changing. Thats I think atleast.
...
As you asked me about Benedict and his search about MacMillan Estate, I answered you, that he was transfered as he entered there. He hadn't opportunity to search through it. But then I remembered that in Jake's lore police officers and Jake's mother HAD opportunity for search. Infact, they searched for days. So, I came to conclussion that somewhere in woods there would be "No-return" point. So, if some random police officer would come close to Jake's body - he gonna be tranfered. It fits lore in whole - since always no bodies were found. But also, it contradicts Jake's lore, since there weren't any missing searchers. So, forests is kinda vague as is. They big enough and MAYBE police didn't even come close enough to Jake's body for transfer to happen. But at this second I remembered about Doctor's lore. His body haven't been found in Lery's Memorial. Add to this, that in MacMillan Estate Archie MacMillan was actually found...
Aaaand I don't know that to think again.
...
At first I kinda interpreted your 5-th question wrong. But, Iam assuring you, this contradiction is explainable anyway.
First, you can't really compare the time Bill lying unconcious and Benedict doing his research. Its because Bill is from L4D universe and Benedict is from DbD. Its not like the time there passes differently or something like that. That's important there is cross point. Bill's mind not only travelled between universes, but also through time (like, I guess, every licensed DLC character). When does he traveled and when exactly he arrived at fog? You can say for sure, that he arrived to the fog AFTER Benedict. So, this still could be explained with "30 secs IRL - 10 years in Entity's realm". And, same goes for characters from SAW DLC.

Rattman

Also, just realised I didn't add Left behind Chapter trailer. Can't take risks with spam-bot, so it will be here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9vzZ-IcCXY
Yup that's how Bill presence explained by devs, lol.
How actually transfer happened? So, we can see Bill lying in the same place he died. He starts moving barely. At this point he still in L4D universe, according to background. This doesn't mean much tho, cause its possible that his nerve endings were touched as Entity taking control of his brain. Can't really believe that he survived. Then we hear some strange sound and Bill opens his eyes in Entity-s realm. Killer shack on background.
Well, atleast how I see it.