Saboteur Needs a Buff

ANJ_

Take anything I say with a grain of salt for I just started playing this game again as of the last few days with the last time I played being around release. I'm having a good amount of fun aside from minor rage at what I deem unfair AF mechanics when I run into it, but here's one of the bigger issues I ran into with my playstyle... The Saboteur.

I played as Jake Park when I first started playing and have him currently at lvl 50. I've got the Saboteur perk which back in the day seemed cool, I felt like I ran a role and was able to take on tasks to increase my teams survivability instead of solely running objectives. Now however, not knowing what the game has become, I tried running that same role just to find myself..... incredibly pointless.

So many problems with this ability which makes it quite worthless... the primary ones which I will list here:

1. The killers have a million and 1 hooks. So many hooks! so many that it is TOTALLY pointless to try and drop hooks. So many that the wiggle free attempts even seem pointless at times for on average I can probably only get it to around 35% before I'm hooked, unless they decide to take me to some far off hook or in the basement where I can maybe get it to 70%, every now and then 90%. It's insane how many hooks there are, and on top of that, they can summon 3 more hooks with the right offering. (and I know we can rid of 3 hooks with EVERYONE using the right offering, which.. if my calculations are correct, everyone using the mentioned perks... ah! comes out to 0 extra and 0 negated hooks! genius!! we got nowhere!)
2. Most of the time I sabotage a hook, it's back up 20 or 30 seconds later, which is probably how long it takes for me to sabotage a hook without a toolkit, (and again I understand this is because of a killer perk), but for real? I can basically drop 1 hook. 1 measly hook amongst the sea of hooks?! what difference is that going to make? (that's rhetorical, the answer is none)
3. Without the hook replacing perk, I've been told they Still reset after 3 minutes. 3 minutes?! now sabotaging a hook itself takes maybe 30 seconds if I'm not interrupted, but combine interruptions, relocating to new hooks, and dropping those, maybe you would average a hook a minute if you were focusing completely on hooks. which leads me back to this, and I'll find a new way to phrase it here... 3 pathetic hooks?! amongst the ocean of hooks?! (really only 2 since by the time the 3rd drops the 1st one is back up...) What difference is that going to make? (It's still rhetorical, the answer is still none)

Now I know with my snarky tone anyone reading is probably thinking, oh yeah and what, I bet you want to just be able to drop all hooks in the map in 10 seconds yadda-yadda-yadda.. Well no. I just want to see some balance and would also like to see variety in playstyles and roles. I think this game has potential and with all of the unique combinations in perks and killers and survivors it's going to take time to get balance across the board, so I'd just like to put in some thoughts that I really hope are thought about, since I think it will be one easy step toward another balanced role. so here are some more thoughts and some more suggestions:

Thought: One big problem here is the role of Jake Park, Saboteur seems to be one of his main perks, with two others that are also pretty damn weak. He seems to me to be a role that is supposed to be a sort of tinkerer, good with hands, sabotaging and I would think should also have some fixing potential.. but I digress.. Problem is. No one is using this character, and now I know why. His perks are garbage and his best one Saboteur is pretty useless with the current state of the game. Every lobby I join I find myself as the only Jake Park, I probably look like such an idiot to everyone. Show Jake some Love!

Thought: I know I mentioned the killers perk that replaces hooks, and I don't really see a problem directly with Hangmans Trick maybe aside from that replacement time, 20-30 seconds is a bit too quick I think,** but more I see a problem with Saboteur** in combo with that perk. I understand if a killer has a perk that maybe completely wipes a survivors perk, like hangmans trick does for saboteur, although I would think that scenario best if it were to wipe out a survivors OP perk, not some nerf ball perk like Saboteur. The problem there is not only does Hangmans Trick already effect ME on a vanilla level (if im trying to sabotage hooks without Saboteur) it also totally wipes out Saboteur if I am running it, and on top of that it ALSO effects 3 other teamates on a base level... again this isn't a problem with Hangmans Trick, it's a problem with Saboteur. (omg I just looked up the perk to find the name and see that simply the uncommon rarity of it replaces a hook in 20 seconds... I take it back that perk is a little too OP even though there are much more OP combos without that perk that are way more commonly used)

Suggestions: And again, I'm not suggesting we make Saboteur OP here, Most of these suggestions are really slight buffs to increase variety of gameplay/builds/and roles, with the possibility of the perk actually being good with certain combos. Also note I am not implying ALL of these suggestions be applied, I only am providing multiple ideas that I think can balance this perk.

1. Saboteur and Hangmans Trick should have a relationship. Because of the thought mentioned above I think there should be a dynamic with these two. Instead of Hangmans Trick effecting everyone on a base level and also basically wiping out the perk of the unfortunate Saboteur minority, I think instead Saboteur should be a sort of counter to Hangmans Trick. I suggest Saboteur simply not be effected by Hangmans Trick, allowing for at least 1 survivor to be able to perform a still useless task without the insane penalty of a hook reappeared seconds later. This would still be a super minor buff to the point of really not doing much aside form a tiny bit of dynamic, which is why I would also suggest this:
2. On a base level Saboteur should either have a much higher hook dropping speed/sabotage speed, or it should increase hook replacement duration by a certain amount. If hooks are replaced automatically after 3 minutes, maybe double that. Which probably seems like a huge difference but honestly with the time it takes to drop a hook, I'm sure it's not, I'm sure hook dropping will still rarely do anything.
3. With Saboteur, maybe sabotaged hooks instead of dropping have a much higher Attempt Escape success rate. I don't know if you would or wouldn't want to mark the hooks with some major or minor visual notifier of this, but who tries to attempt to escape anyway? the odds are so low it's only ever attempted by the seasoned vet in the right scenario, to no avail 90% of the time, or by a total noobie who sees the prompt and thinks thats what they have to do and instantly puts them in phase 2 of being hooked.. Why not allow a teammate running Saboteur to increase the chances of noobs not dooming themselves and increases the chances of a seasoned vet putting their knowledge to use??? if you ask me this would be a great idea.
4. Now this is a combo of above things and therefore I'm sure would already be seen as problematic, but I think it would be very fun.. partially sabotaged hooks gain increased escape odds. Say its 99% sabotaged, well it should act pretty sabotaged shouldn't it? maybe at 99% sabotaged you gain like 25% of normal escape odds or something. The numbers I wouldn't know how to work out because I don't know the current percentages for escape odds. If this were implemented I would probably also suggest sabotaging also has a regression % when not being sabotaged so that people wouldn't just leave all hooks at 99% and give everyone OP odds at unhooking (which would only happen if the escape odds were set to an unfair number)
5. Simply decrease the number of hooks! We are swimming in a sea of them here! Honestly this would be the least satisfying "buff" to Saboteur for it wouldn't be a buff to Saboteur, it would still be a sad lonely perk.
6. Increase hook replacement duration. Same as 5, wouldn't really be a buff to Saboteur but would make it the itty bittiest more useful... which would still not be useful. Would again be a very unsatisfying buff.
7. OPEN DISCUSSION!!!... I just mean.. These are all ideas. I haven't worked out percentages and numbers because I don't know whats on the back end of these mechanics, I only know from the front end that it needs a little love.. If you have knowledge feel free to say what you want to say. I'm used to the internet being prepared to bash but I find that unfortunate for I think that some balancing is needed however the voices of all the meta builds usually speak up so they can continue to dominate an unbalanced game, so have it at peeps!

Another thought: I know I mentioned nothing of the ability to sabotage trappers traps, and that's because I don't think anything Needs to be said. Saboteur has a little bit more dynamics and a role when running against 1 single specific killer.. That's great and all. But that requires some luck to be using the right perk against the right killer in a world where you don't know what killer you are going against and he certainly isn't the hillbilly nurse meta. Nor does it affect gameplay with annny other killer. The pig, puts traps on your head, no help there.. The hag lays a million "traps" she can teliport to, no help there, it's just too specific and again is a minority perk in a scenario with a minority killer.

Hope you can at least see I've put a bit of thought into it! See you next patch???? ..please???

ANJ_

On a somewhat relevant and humorous note.. Just played one game after posting and saw this....

Pretty much sums up Saboteur, lol.

Rattman

Gotta agree, saboteur need some love. Nobody uses it since genrush meta and, basically, cause its not giving you any points in rank system, while you wasting precious time.

Bravo0413

I didnt read your book lmao...... but I agree the saboteur does need something... and I'm sure the devs intend on doing something for it... 

Volfawott

While I think they shouldn't change how hangman's trick works honestly it is not prevalent enough for it to receive a nerf.
Literally the perk as it is is situational at best and when it comes to dealing with Sabotage it still probably just outclassed by agitation and iron grasp anyway

ANJ_

@Aari_Piggy66 said:
While I think they shouldn't change how hangman's trick works honestly it is not prevalent enough for it to receive a nerf.
Literally the perk as it is is situational at best and when it comes to dealing with Sabotage it still probably just outclassed by agitation and iron grasp anyway

Agreed, Kinda as I mentioned in post, it's not like a meta perk and I don't reallly have a problem with it directly, just looking at it from the Saboteur standpoint and realizing how insanely fast it replaces hooks, it just doesn't make sense to me; But right, I agree, there are definitely other perks that fall into the meta that get used far more often.

Also back to saboteur, I thought that you couldn't even disarm trappers traps without it or something like that, then I took off the perk, played against a trapper, and realized you can sabotage a trap still and it seemed like equally as fast.... This perk is soo damn pointless and gets more and more pointless the more I find out. Poor Jake man.

@Bravo0413 said:
I didnt read your book lmao...... but I agree the saboteur does need something... and I'm sure the devs intend on doing something for it... 

haha, well I hope so! It definitely needs something.

Kale

Make it to consume the whole toolbox in the first sabotage and the hook cannot be restored (unless you'have Hangman's trick perk)

ANJ_

@Kale said:
Make it to consume the whole toolbox in the first sabotage and the hook cannot be restored (unless you'have Hangman's trick perk)

that's better than nothing that's for sure, but unfortunately dropping a single hook is going to make no difference at all with how many hooks exist in these maps. It definitely needs something a little more.

Kale

@ANJ_ said:

@Kale said:
Make it to consume the whole toolbox in the first sabotage and the hook cannot be restored (unless you'have Hangman's trick perk)

that's better than nothing that's for sure, but unfortunately dropping a single hook is going to make no difference at all with how many hooks exist in these maps. It definitely needs something a little more.

Just imagine it as a whole team strat, 4 sabotaged hooks and 4 prevent one hook to appear offering, total of 8 hooks less.

Unknown

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Mc_Harty

Would be nice.

deadwolfwalking

@Kale

i've seen that. i had a sabo team of No Mither davids. i went for my first hook of the game and i had 3 hooks and a basement.... my next hook, i only had basement.... i just hit em with saws and let em get up. two bled-out, two survived. i had the least amount of points....

ANJ_

@Hillbilly420 said:
No. It doesn't.

ok Hillbilly420 lol